What your club wants

[tonynotte]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/101642/default.aspx

"Needs: Key back, key forward, gun midfielder, small-to-medium forward to help Mark LeCras, a ruckman as back-up if Dean Cox is traded. Pretty much everything."

The first thing they mention, Key Back, is one thing (along with inside midfielders) we dont need. Schofield, Mackenzie, Brown, Spanger and Glass for a couple more years yet has it more than covered. B Jones, J Jones and B Wilkes are also on the list.

Our obvious needs imo outside midfielder, small forward, older ruckman on rookie list just to cover injuries to cox and nic nat and key forward. In that oider.

 

[smiths]

of course tonynotte would put key forward as the last thing we need

 

[basalt]

I see where there coming from. Our key backs are Schofield , Mckenzie and Brown.

Wilkes is not up to the task and will probably be delisted.

Sphangher may be a tall defender but he is not a key defender. Most likely he will be gone this year as well.

Glass may have two years left but is becoming prone to season ending injuries.

Bones and JJones like Sphangher are not key defenders.

We are thin on the ground for key defenders, due in part to our drafting of almost exclusively midfielders and mid sized utilities since 2007.

Our pressing need for an outside goal kicking mid is due to the slow development of Ebert, Masten and Swift, and injury to Shuey.

 

[basalt]

oh and we need a key forward as well. Hansen and lynch long gone before our next tilt at a flag. Even with Notte coming on and starring we will only be choosing from Kennedy, Notte and maybe Wilson/Brown.

And a midfielder and another smart forward (doesnt have to be small) are needed.

"pretty much everything"

 

[WCE_phil]

I see where there coming from. Our key backs are Schofield , Mckenzie and Brown.

Wilkes is not up to the task and will probably be delisted.

Sphangher may be a tall defender but he is not a key defender. Most likely he will be gone this year as well.

Glass may have two years left but is becoming prone to season ending injuries.

Bones and JJones like Sphangher are not key defenders.

We are thin on the ground for key defenders, due in part to our drafting of almost exclusively midfielders and mid sized utilities since 2007.

Our pressing need for an outside goal kicking mid is due to the slow development of Ebert, Masten and Swift, and injury to Shuey.

Yeah because 1 injury this year means he's "prone" to season ending injuries after winning the club champion award in 07 and 09 playing every game in those years and only missing 1 game in 08. Amazingly injury prone player however did we manage to keep him on our list.....

Instead of using bullshit, meaningless throwaway comments i suggest you actualy research at least some minor parts of your argument. I'm also truly amazed at your thoughts on masten,ebert and swift coming along slowly.

Masten hasn't had a full preseason yet and has had major injuries since being drafted with OP, Ebert has played 50+ games already in his 3 seasons on an afl list and will go close to top 10 in our best and fairest this year while its astonishing that swift has played any games considering he missed 2 full years of football before being drafted.

But i guess you've forgotten a few things like masten's 38 possession game against port adelaide last year or maybe swifty's 3 brownlow votes from round 22 last year after it could be argued he was BOG the week before at well. Oh wait i forgot to mention both ebert and mastens rising star nominations and that masten is 21 with ebert and swift both being 20.

Shit just delist them now and be finished with it. Wait we've got the wooden spoon, lets delist everyone. The coaches, the players, admin, the support staff or instead all of the flog supporters without factual backing to their arguments?

 

[jaxxon]

Surprised it didnt say 'footballers'

 

[basalt]

Glassy is 30 next year, prob onto the veterans list. Now i cant use any facts to predict how he personally will last, however I reckon 2 years will be pretty good. Perhaps you can list for me the number of eagles that have played on after 32 years of age.

Unless your the club medico and can tell me different I reckon glassy has not been 100% in 2008, 2009 or 2010. Testament to the mans commitment to the club that he has played so many games.

Be fantastic if he can play all the games next year as well, but i reckon a study of high impact players like glassy would show they miss games at the end of their careers. Nature of the game.

Even if he plays out all the games for the next 4 years the fact is the last time we recruited key defenders was in the 2006 draft. Brown at 10, Mckenzie at 29 and schofield at 50.

Four seasons later they have now taken on the mantle of the clubs key defenders.

None have played more than 50 games but are now are about to enter that so called magic window.

Now i reckon good list management is to have a minimum 4 to a max 6 key defenders on the list. based on who i think is up for possible delisting (Wilkes and sphangher, i believe both are out of contract) we are short on at least 1 key defender. The same applies for our key forwards especially as Hansen and Lynch even if kept on the list will be both past 30 when our next window occurs.

So i reckon we need a key forward as well.

Since 2007 we have selected 9 midfielders in the drafts and trades (Masten,Ebert,Selwood,Mcginnity,shuey, swift,shepherd ,stevens, dalziell) and 2 medium utilities in Smith and weedon.
The rookie draft has seen another 5 mids/smalls (still on the list) in strjik,adam c,hams, JON,broome, and stevenson.

I just dont see the rationale for more mids and small forwards unless we are not happy with the ones we have got.

For all of that pick 4 should be best available after that i think we need to go tall.

If your happy with the development of the young mids then for balance i would expect you would also be looking at drafting tall. If you want more mids then i can only assume your not happy with what we have.

As for the number of changes i would expect no more than 6 to 8 , there is no point releasing players unless you think you can get in somebody who you think will add to the team.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Key Backs: Glass, McKenzie and Schofield.
Key Forwards: Kennedy, Wilson and Notte.
Rucks: Cox and Naitanui.

Our Spine as it stands.

Glass
McKenzie
Cox
Kennedy
Wilson

Reserved: Schofield, Brown, Naitanui

In any normal draft we could use a second round selection on a KPP. It's certainly still an option but the risk of holding off till 2011 draft is small.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Since 2007 we have selected 9 midfielders in the drafts and trades (Masten,Ebert,Selwood,Mcginnity,shuey, swift,shepherd ,stevens, dalziell) and 2 medium utilities in Smith and weedon.
The rookie draft has seen another 5 mids/smalls (still on the list) in strjik,adam c,hams, JON,broome, and stevenson.

I just dont see the rationale for more mids and small forwards unless we are not happy with the ones we have got.

For all of that pick 4 should be best available after that i think we need to go tall.

My attitude.

Great Key Forwards in bad teams count for nothing.
Drafting KPP's ahead of midfielders requires justification.
I see no KPP that justify selection at pick 4 beyond Day and Gorringe.

Any needs selections must have the right "attributes" for justify selection ahead of a player who might be the better junior.

We have drafted inside midfielders and have a critical shortage of midfielders who create space and use the ball well. Our kids haven't shown enough diversity as a group and we can certainly add to the group.

Should we go after KPP's? Yes but not a pick 4.

Smith or Atley will do. If we can't get Swallow or Bennell then one of these two will do.

 

[basalt]

current squad

key backs: glass,wilkes,sphangher,mckenzie ,schofield, (brown, is it ok to say he swings!) that is 5 plus the swinger

key forwards : lynch, hanson, kennedy, wilson,notte 5 plus the swinger

Is it fair to say key forwards and backs take a little longer to develop than mids? So when our mids (Masten and company) reach 23 to 25 in say 3 years time i would not expect any of the bolded to still be on the list.

For next year i expect that Wilkes and Sphangher will most likely be gone and one of lynch or hanson.

I would like to see some talls replace those that will be going to retain balance on our list. Also will give them time to develop with our current group of young mids.

Use picks 26 and 28 or what can be traded for lower than this unless we go tall for pick 4 which should be best available.

I think our ruck stocks are fine, but if we have to replace sullivan on the rookie list so be it.

Like to see this next year

mckenzie
schofield
shuey
kennedy
Notte

but i reckon notte is more likely the year after, so split it with wilson.

 

[bodazoka]

Need an Embley replacement, medium goal kicking, speedy, line breaking wingman who can deliver well inside 50.

I would settle for a less flashy inside/outside type with good skills who can kick well with medium hurt factor.

I would love to see us pick up 2 kids as close to the above with our first two picks and then go for a KPF with our next pick. If you believe the paper we are going to have lots of picks this draft.

 

[EagleMan87]

Need an Embley replacement, medium goal kicking, speedy, line breaking wingman who can deliver well inside 50.

I would settle for a less flashy inside/outside type with good skills who can kick well with medium hurt factor.

I would love to see us pick up 2 kids as close to the above with our first two picks and then go for a KPF with our next pick. If you believe the paper we are going to have lots of picks this draft.

A few people that have seen Atley considered him to be a 'more midfield version' of Sheppard, sounds like a good replacement to me.

Or if we go the KP route with pick 4, we can always take Andreoli with 26/28 and still get a decent outside* mid with good skills.

*predominately

 

[Marlin01]

Here is a modified version of a "future 22" I posted in another thread:

Smith (20) Mackenzie (22) Schofield (21)
Hurn (22) Brown (21) Butler (24)
Sheppard (19) Ebert (20) Stevenson (20)
Hams (23) Kennedy (22) Strijk (22)
LeCras (23) Wilson (22) Shuey (20)

NN (20) Swift (20) Masten (21)
Rosa (23) Selwood (20) Houlihan (21) Waters (24)

I reckon it's a pretty strong team, but it's lacking a second ruckman and is too reliant on a midfield that is yet to produce. I'm confident Shuey will be a very good player and that Scott Selwood and Ebert will be a valued contributors, but Masten and Swift could either be boom or bust.

If I were in charge of recruiting, I'd target a ruckman that can play FF, with pick 4 and as many quality midfielders as I could get my hands on, with the remaining picks.

 

[bighit006]

Outside mid who can kick, thanks.

 

[Bacchus]

Outside mid who can kick, thanks.

Stevenson?

P.S. I know we need more

 

[greennick]

Outside mid who can kick, thanks.

This. Maybe a few talls with later picks.

 

[Wirra for PM]

We still have a present need for a crumber IMO, Broome is a long term project and Hams, while I like him in the forward line, isn't electric around the packs.

Wouldn't spend a high pick to get one but wouldn't mind if we used a later/PSD pick.

 

[Byron_Clanger]

Pace, Pace, Pace, Pace, Pace, and kickers

 

[beatlesmith]

It's all well and good to say we'll get a key forward with a later pick, but how many top quality key forwards have been picked outside the top 20 in recent times?
There's a reason why the best key forwards have been early picks, because if you have the tools to be a quality key forward, you are going to go very high, more so than any other position.
I do agree that we shouldn't pay over the odds for someone who might not be worth it, but eventually we're going to have to make an investment in a key forward.

 

[eagles rule]

It's all well and good to say we'll get a key forward with a later pick, but how many top quality key forwards have been picked outside the top 20 in recent times?
There's a reason why the best key forwards have been early picks, because if you have the tools to be a quality key forward, you are going to go very high, more so than any other position.
I do agree that we shouldn't pay over the odds for someone who might not be worth it, but eventually we're going to have to make an investment in a key forward.

i was gunna say the same thing Day or Gorringe if we need a key forward should be taken early think NRiewoldt,Buddy,Roughhead ,Pavlich and Lastyear the Power used pick 8 on a injured forward in Butcher.

 

[Patron]

Here is a modified version of a "future 22" I posted in another thread:

Smith (20) Mackenzie (22) Schofield (21)
Hurn (22) Brown (21) Butler (24)
Sheppard (19) Ebert (20) Stevenson (20)
Hams (23) Kennedy (22) Strijk (22)
LeCras (23) Wilson (22) Shuey (20)

NN (20) Swift (20) Masten (21)
Rosa (23) Selwood (20) Houlihan (21) Waters (24)

I reckon it's a pretty strong team, but it's lacking a second ruckman and is too reliant on a midfield that is yet to produce. I'm confident Shuey will be a very good player and that Scott Selwood and Ebert will be a valued contributors, but Masten and Swift could either be boom or bust.

If I were in charge of recruiting, I'd target a ruckman that can play FF, with pick 4 and as many quality midfielders as I could get my hands on, with the remaining picks.

good outlook. i like the look of that team. only thing would be shuey in the middle ebert on the flank and hams in the pocket. Also rosa will be traded out so swap rosa for pick 4. Not losing anyone for 6 years atleast. i like it.

 

[basalt]

Yeah because 1 injury this year means he's "prone" to season ending injuries after winning the club champion award in 07 and 09 playing every game in those years and only missing 1 game in 08. Amazingly injury prone player however did we manage to keep him on our list.....

Instead of using bullshit, meaningless throwaway comments i suggest you actualy research at least some minor parts of your argument. I'm also truly amazed at your thoughts on masten,ebert and swift coming along slowly.

Masten hasn't had a full preseason yet and has had major injuries since being drafted with OP, Ebert has played 50+ games already in his 3 seasons on an afl list and will go close to top 10 in our best and fairest this year while its astonishing that swift has played any games considering he missed 2 full years of football before being drafted.

But i guess you've forgotten a few things like masten's 38 possession game against port adelaide last year or maybe swifty's 3 brownlow votes from round 22 last year after it could be argued he was BOG the week before at well. Oh wait i forgot to mention both ebert and mastens rising star nominations and that masten is 21 with ebert and swift both being 20.

Shit just delist them now and be finished with it. Wait we've got the wooden spoon, lets delist everyone. The coaches, the players, admin, the support staff or instead all of the flog supporters without factual backing to their arguments?

just a few facts for wce _phil on how much longer we can expect Glassy to be on the park for. Seeing you want facts and data to support my comment heres a few.

Since the inception of the eagles a grand total of 30 players have played on after reaching 30 years of age. Of those just 8 have played on after 32. Thats not quite 25% of a very small group. Thus my comment about him having about 2 years left.

For your interest the players who got past 32 years are listed below , with their age at retirement and number of games played in their last year.

Wiley 32.5 18 games
Glendenning 32.1 19 games
Lamb 32.8 5 games
Hart 33.6 7 games
Mainwaring 33.8 5 games
Kemp 32.6 8 games
Banfield 32.6 14 games
Matera 33.5 17 games

My simple analysis of that data is even if Glassy gets beyond another 2 years dont expect many games from him.

Similiar players (key defenders) at the end of their career

Mcintosh 31 14 games
Brennan 30.3 16 games
Jakovich 31.5 6 games
Glass at the end of 2010 is 29.4 and played 8 games this year.

Hopefully for Glassy he has at least two more years playing for the club injury free. However if your doing list management you should not be expecting it to be likely. Thats why i made my comment that we should be looking at a tall defender this draft and my poor throw away line about glassy's fitness.

 

[WCE_phil]

just a few facts for wce _phil on how much longer we can expect Glassy to be on the park for. Seeing you want facts and data to support my comment heres a few.

Since the inception of the eagles a grand total of 30 players have played on after reaching 30 years of age. Of those just 8 have played on after 32. Thats not quite 25% of a very small group. Thus my comment about him having about 2 years left.

For your interest the players who got past 32 years are listed below , with their age at retirement and number of games played in their last year.

Wiley 32.5 18 games
Glendenning 32.1 19 games
Lamb 32.8 5 games
Hart 33.6 7 games
Mainwaring 33.8 5 games
Kemp 32.6 8 games
Banfield 32.6 14 games
Matera 33.5 17 games

My simple analysis of that data is even if Glassy gets beyond another 2 years dont expect many games from him.

Similiar players (key defenders) at the end of their career

Mcintosh 31 14 games
Brennan 30.3 16 games
Jakovich 31.5 6 games
Glass at the end of 2010 is 29.4 and played 8 games this year.

Hopefully for Glassy he has at least two more years playing for the club injury free. However if your doing list management you should not be expecting it to be likely. Thats why i made my comment that we should be looking at a tall defender this draft and my poor throw away line about glassy's fitness.

Your stats show absolutely 0 support to back up your statement on glass. There is no issue in saying he only has 2 years left, he may only have 1 left.

The issue is not only with yourself but with others using bullshit lines like 'being succeptible to season ending injuries'. Which are a complete crock of shit as this year having a season ending injury after playing all but 1 game in the 3 years leading up to this one including 2 club champion awards.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Pace, Pace, Pace, Pace, Pace, and kickers

Pick 4 - Brodie Smith
Pick 26 - Ben Newton
Pick 28 - Warrick Andreoli

All left footed two are lightning quick.

 

[bodazoka]

It's all well and good to say we'll get a key forward with a later pick, but how many top quality key forwards have been picked outside the top 20 in recent times?
There's a reason why the best key forwards have been early picks, because if you have the tools to be a quality key forward, you are going to go very high, more so than any other position.
I do agree that we shouldn't pay over the odds for someone who might not be worth it, but eventually we're going to have to make an investment in a key forward.

There is not a big gulf between the amount of A grade KPF's taken before 20 and the amount taken after 20. The numbers are pretty close. They are just very rare, and there are a number of them taken very early who have completely flopped. Its not a guarantee that an early tall will become A grade, its almost 50/50.