Whats Andrew McLeods Problem?

[Mad Dog]

His reaction to the Brownlow loss in 2001 was one of my great dissappointments in Macca - I really think he could have behaved in a more dignified manner.

Are you serious with the above comment? Living in Melbourne at the time, newspapers ran articles about how dignified he was in defeat - even when he was CLEARLY dudded with the Brownlow that year (neither Maccas 35 possession Kangas game, 39 disposals vs Freo R 22 got any votes)

I think he struggles to keep up to the myth that has been created. He had 2 very good games in 97 and 98 - and had a very good season in 2001....other than that - he's been a solid footballer......hardly a Voss, Carey, Tredrea etc.

Mad Dog - look at his record below from his AFC website profile. It is hardly 2 good games and one very good year. He was very unlucky to not win AA selection in 97 also. He was either club champion or runner up for 5 years straight from 1997-2001. And then finished 3rd in 2002 and 2003. Thats a pretty consistent record. He was quiet in 2004 but not atrocious (4 or 5th in B&F).

People - where is the loyalty to one of our clubs great? A new coach freeing him up in 2005 - if his knees hold he will probably be AFL top 10 player again come seasons end

PLAYER HONORS
AFC Emerging Talent Award 1995; AFL Rising Star nominee 1995; Premiership Player 1997, 1998; Norm Smith Medallist 1997, 1998; Best and Fairest 1997, 2001; 2nd Best and Fairest 1998, 1999, 2000; 3rd Best and Fairest 2002 (equal), 2003; 3rd Brownlow Medal 2000; 2nd Brownlow Medal 2001; All-Australian 1998, 2000, 2001; International Rules Series 2000, 2001; Pre-season premiership player 2003; Michael Tuck Medallist (Best player in pre-season Grand Final) 2003.

Obviously we see it differently......interesting that you live in Melbourne - I don't know how many games you get to - but I'd like your opinion of his work rate off the ball ?
As was my point - there's not much in your players honours after 2001 - only really place getting @ the AFC B&F.......an indication that he has contributed well - relative to our other players who have generally under performed in those same years - (Remember Matt Connell won a B&F once in one of our worst years).......2002 is the only exception.
As I've said - he's had 2 really good games in the GFs.....look at this in the context of the performances from the others I mentioned........he had a great year in 2001......other than that he's been a good solid player....... I would have thought with his talent....with the absence of any help (Goody missing for the best part of 2 years) he may have seen that as an opportunity to take on some respnsibility. Roo probably has less talent than Macca - but makes up for it with pride in his performance and good old G&D.........
If you're in the mood for some research.......I'd like to see how many wins in the last 3 years you think Roo has positively contributed to in a substantial way and how many wins you think Macca has.....?..........(mymansyd do you have any stats on this ?)
Like I said - he's a great guy - I hope he turns it around

 

[maccas_no1]

Andrew Mcleod, when you hear that name you think of Norm Smiths, tearing through the centre square But for some reason the last two seaons we very rarely see this great mans talents Number of reasons likely a few have already been mentions, did Ayres and Macca have not a good relationship???? Has this caused him to lose the 'spark'????? Has he been played out of position????? Should he purely be put in the midfeild from 2005 onwards????

He can only turn it around, he is a fantastic but frustrating player, and by frustrating I mean, why does he always go the short option when about 50m on the run from goal when he knows he can nail it himself, bring the crowd to it's feet and give the team more of a spur?????

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Obviously we see it differently......interesting that you live in Melbourne - I don't know how many games you get to - but I'd like your opinion of his work rate off the ball ?

Like I said - he's a great guy - I hope he turns it around

It's been pretty obvious that off the ball his work rate has been ordinary, and he has allowed taggers to get the better of him.

I see that how he plays the game is different to previous seasons - is that him, is the game the coach wants him to play, is the off the ball low work rate a sumptom of the fact he doesn't enjoy his role.

IMO we have to reserve judgement till we see him under Craig - if he's rejuvinated then it was Ayres, if not then its Macleod.

In some respects his playing reflects very similarly to Peter Matera, who in the WC flag wins was an out and out champion - ended up being a servicable player but never captured that premiership brilliance much to the frustration of WC supporters.

 

[macca23]

IMO we have to reserve judgement till we see him under Craig - if he's rejuvinated then it was Ayres, if not then its Macleod.

Good comment.

It was only a couple of years ago that Macca was generally rated as being in the best 3 players in the whole comp.

Now he doesn't get a mention in the best 50.

That's a fair come-down, and it does appear to be all related to work rate to the naked eye - we can't see inside Macca's head.

His performances in the coming year will answer the question as to whether it was Macca or Ayres that was responsible for the slide in performance.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Still reckon attitude rather than injury is Macca's problem.

Hopefully he loves playing under Craig & we get to see the Macca of old on a more regular basis.

 

[ant]

I can't believe some of the things being written here....

His reaction to the Brownlow loss in 2001 was one of my great dissappointments in Macca - I really think he could have behaved in a more dignified manner.

Are you serious with the above comment? Living in Melbourne at the time, newspapers ran articles about how dignified he was in defeat - even when he was CLEARLY dudded with the Brownlow that year (neither Maccas 35 possession Kangas game, 39 disposals vs Freo R 22 got any votes)

I think he struggles to keep up to the myth that has been created. He had 2 very good games in 97 and 98 - and had a very good season in 2001....other than that - he's been a solid footballer......hardly a Voss, Carey, Tredrea etc.

Mad Dog - look at his record below from his AFC website profile. It is hardly 2 good games and one very good year. He was very unlucky to not win AA selection in 97 also. He was either club champion or runner up for 5 years straight from 1997-2001. And then finished 3rd in 2002 and 2003. Thats a pretty consistent record. He was quiet in 2004 but not atrocious (4 or 5th in B&F).

People - where is the loyalty to one of our clubs great? A new coach freeing him up in 2005 - if his knees hold he will probably be AFL top 10 player again come seasons end

PLAYER HONORS
AFC Emerging Talent Award 1995; AFL Rising Star nominee 1995; Premiership Player 1997, 1998; Norm Smith Medallist 1997, 1998; Best and Fairest 1997, 2001; 2nd Best and Fairest 1998, 1999, 2000; 3rd Best and Fairest 2002 (equal), 2003; 3rd Brownlow Medal 2000; 2nd Brownlow Medal 2001; All-Australian 1998, 2000, 2001; International Rules Series 2000, 2001; Pre-season premiership player 2003; Michael Tuck Medallist (Best player in pre-season Grand Final) 2003.

Sensational post....admittedly, I'm greatly biased BUT

Now I can't recall who's posted half of this stuff on Macca here, but two good games in 97 and 98? You must be joking, as mentioned, close to All Australian in 97, BF in 97, All Australian in 98, was in our top 3 or close to it in virtually all 7 our our finals wins in those years (sydney the exception I think), instrumental in the prelims....and Johnson Norm Smith in 97? Haha....lessened Harvs influence and provided some good drive but Robert still got 30 touches, no way he was BOG. And in 98, Jars kicked 5 good goals, but the reason we won the game? I'll pay Hart possibly, but Andy was a deserving Norm Smith Medal winner...not saying he won the games by themselves but he earnt them, IMO of course.

And as for his reaction to missing out on the 2001 Brownlow, I thought he was very classy, and dignified, just as he always is. I am stunned anyone would have thought otherwise?

Now all of this is ancient history, I know, but some things just need to be said.

As for the original thread question, it's sitting on the fence, but it's probably a bit of everything. Perthcrow is on to something I think and his attitude has been disappointing in recent years. Ayres was no help at all to Andy in his last few seasons at the helm, but for what he's getting paid, the effort should be there EVERY week.

Having said that, there's no doubt the knees are no where near 100% (he won't admit it, it's not like he's going to come out and say he's stuffed), and he's definitely lost a yard or two of pace. Sometimes he attempts to break away and he just can't do it like he used to, in the process losing a bit of confidence.

In spite of all of this, he's still been a reasonably consistent performer (though he doesn't win games as often any more and he is not value for money). I'm not sure if he can regain that ability again on a regular basis, but if he can work hard and put in for the team (like he generally does), then I'll be happy.

 

[Mad Dog]

IMO we have to reserve judgement till we see him under Craig - if he's rejuvinated then it was Ayres, if not then its Macleod.

.

That's fine - and I hope we do see the old Andy.......but if we do - it doesn't say a lot about his character and pride in himself as a footballer, and commitment to his mates over the last few years IMO.

 

[Mad Dog]

Re: I can't believe some of the things being written here....

Sensational post....admittedly, I'm greatly biased BUT

Now I can't recall who's posted half of this stuff on Macca here, but two good games in 97 and 98? You must be joking, as mentioned, close to All Australian in 97, BF in 97, All Australian in 98, was in our top 3 or close to it in virtually all 7 our our finals wins in those years .

I you read what I said carefully.....it said he had good years in '97 and '98....but his REPUTATION as a star is PREDOMINANTLY built on the 2 GF performances.

My post is built from frustration in Andy's performance because I was (and still am) a huge fan........this is probably why I watch him more than others.

Intersting that if he has an average year this year - then the writing is on the wall in and it is clear that either attitude or injury have got the better of him.
Conversely - if he has a good year under Craig - the fantastic !! - but what does it tell you about him over the last 3 years ?

 

[No 1 Draft Pick]

Re: I can't believe some of the things being written here....

Intersting that if he has an average year this year - then the writing is on the wall in and it is clear that either attitude or injury have got the better of him.
Conversely - if he has a good year under Craig - the fantastic !! - but what does it tell you about him over the last 3 years ?[/QUOTE]


Well he cant win can he? Either he is 'gone' or you question his character in the last 3 years. We all agree he is not as good as he was and we hope like hell he can turn it around. My response to you yesterday was that IMO you werent balanced in your criticism of him. Mainly:

- Your great disappointment in him after the 2001 Brownlow - what did he actually do to upset you? As I mentioned most media praised him for 'taking it in his stride' and that was my opinion also

- Mentioning one very good year only. 5 years in a row 1st/2nd in B&F is a great effort (in 2 premiership yrs and another finals yr). And then two 3rd placings in 02/03 when our team was consistently in premiership contention is not a bad result by any means. Certainly more than one good year - he would have been ranked top 10 in AFL for at least 4-5 years

In response to whether I see him live much and watch his off the ball demeanour unfortunately the answer is no. I now live in Brisbane and only saw him twice live this year (vs Lions and vs Swans in Sydney which I flew down to)

Mad Dog - I agree with you he isnt nearly as good as he was 4-5 yrs ago (for whatever reason) but please dont ignore his contribution to our clubs success in the last decade by belittling his achievements.

Lets hope he turns it around

 

[mymansyd]

1997 & 2001 Club B&F Winner; 1997-1998 Premiership Player; 1997-1998 Norm Smith Medallist; 1998 & 2000-2001 All-Australian.

Andy is a club and (to my mind) AFL legend and has set the bar scarily high.

Even though he hasn't received any "honours" since 2001, his form has still been exemplary - for the most part.

2002 - Averaged 22 disposals, 3 marks, 1 goal per game
2003 - 21, 2, 1
2004 - 21, 3, 1

I agree that his attitude seemed off the mark a little last year, but, hey, there wouldn't be a single player going around that hasn't had a 'down-period' in his career, whether it be due to physical or mental injuries.

He's still the most exciting player at our club, and behind Roo, the most important.

 

[Mad Dog]

Re: I can't believe some of the things being written here....

Mad Dog - I agree with you he isnt nearly as good as he was 4-5 yrs ago (for whatever reason) but please dont ignore his contribution to our clubs success in the last decade by belittling his achievements.

Lets hope he turns it around

I certainly didn't want to belittle his achievements........the AFC is much the richer for his talent over the years. I was trying to put it in context and offer some reasons as to why he might not be performing to the level we all expect. My thesis is that maybe just maybe, Andy is a really really good player who has had some stand out moments - rather than being an absolute superstar in the league of Voss, Black, Hird, Buckley, Roo, Tredrea, Akermanis, Lappin, Paul Kelly, John Platten, Judd (emerging).

IMHO - he is not in the same company wrt consistancy of high level performance.

 

[blighty]

Did'nt McLeod win the AFL players association award for player of the year in 2002?
This award is a players award in which players vote the MVP for the year!

No greater acknowledgement in my view ... ranks better than a Brownlow Medal[due deferance to Roo!]...
Many of us heard the rumours mid way through last season that Macca was said to have told the club or certain people in it that if Ayres was reappointed he wanted to be traded.The club evidently flew his father down from the NT to calm him down.
Rucci wrote at about this time McGuire approached him about the possibilty of him playing at Collingwood...
It's no secret the senior players were tired of Ayres & wanted change.
That goes some way to explain Macca's seeming disinterest in Ayres use of him onground...McLeod plays his best when he's in the thick of it....I hear he's come back with renewed enthuisiam & greatly respects Craigy...
I expect him to have a belter of a season...

 

[DJ75]

It seems to me that there are a couple of things that have affected Andrew:
1. Knees. I know some of you are saying he had bad knees before, but the problem he has is with a lack of cartlidge, which essentially means he has a deteriorating condition. It is also one (I am a sufferer as well) that will feel OK some days and shocking on others. We have to accept he will not be as agile and quick as in the past. Likewise Andrew needs to accept this and change his game accordingly (i.e. get the ball out of the pack instead of running the wings). This is similar to the way Michael Jordan had to change his game style and hit more jumpshots than dunks as his knees aged.

2. The Brownlow loss of 2001 was a crushing blow, but I think the loss in 2002 was worse. If I remember correctly, in that season he bolted out of the blocks and picked up a stack of votes to be leading clearly early on. After two quiet games in which he was heavily tagged, that Genius Ayers decided to put him in the backlines. On Brownlow night I could literally see the steam coming from his ears as his lead was overtaken and he realised he was never going to win a Brownlow despite two seasons in which he should have.

3. All teams now run a specific tactic against Andrew in which they stand goal side of him and prevent his speed from breaking away from them. For some reason the coaches tried to stick with his game style and not alter it accordingly. Hopefully Craig will be able to get him to play in a manner in which he will be able to use his strengths to our advantage.

I for one think Andy will be back with a bang this season!

 

[drakeyv2]

The guy has played for 10 years & over 200 games most of them on dodgy knees while being belted by some tagger. That is one hell of a career & no one lasts forever.

I just think that through age & injury he has lost that 1/2 a yard of explosive pace that gave him time to exercise his skills & made him so special. Maybe his apparent attitude problem is due to his inability to come to terms with the fact that he can no longer do the things on the field he used to.

He was never that run all day endurance type player like a Buckley, Crawford, Harvey or Stevens. Those type seem to be the guys that go on for ever.

With proper handling & a re-evaluation of his capabilities by both he & the club, I still think he has some good footy in him.

Then again, maybe he was just too fat.

I think his plight highlights the fact the club has been remiss in not replacing Bickley & Johnson. The load on he & Riccciuto has gotten greater when it should have been shared amongst more players.

We should never think of trading him (ok, if they offer us Chris Judd we should), because we need players of his quality to have played their careers at Adelaide to help build club tradition.

 

[Blue Red and Gold]

I am a huge Macca fan, and obviously he isnt performing the way he was a few years ago. We have to accept that he has now peaked but as Drakeyv2 said with careful management we can still get some good footy out of him.

Instead of playing him off the HBB when being rested I would like to see him played on the HFF, he would take a quality defender and he will always be creating chances and could very easily still turn a game on its head.

 

[tribey]

I am a huge Macca fan, and obviously he isnt performing the way he was a few years ago. We have to accept that he has now peaked but as Drakeyv2 said with careful management we can still get some good footy out of him.

So why sign him up on such a fat contract? A thankyou for services already rendered?

I don't like it.

A Gasparish wage restructuring is in order.

 

[Blue Red and Gold]

So why sign him up on such a fat contract? A thankyou for services already rendered?

I don't like it.

A Gasparish wage restructuring is in order.

When was this latest contract stitched up?

 

[tribey]

2003? It was only recently.

Stifler's expertise is required to clarify.

 

[Blue Red and Gold]

I'll await clarification

 

[DaveW]

I think dyertribe's right.

This year was the first year of McLeod's new contract.

 

[Blue Red and Gold]

I think dyertribe's right.

This year was the first year of McLeod's new contract.

Well if thats the case then that was probably not the greatest idea because Im sure he is on a bit of $$$

When is he eligible for the veterans list? He must be getting close, so maybe thats why, pay him over the price a little bit to secure his services.

 

[tribey]

I think dyertribe's right.

I just checked the weather channel:

Hell
Current Temp: -34C
GRAZIERS ALERT: Strong winds, ice, snow

Previous forecast:

Max: 666C
Min: 69C

 

[Stiffy_18]

2003? It was only recently.

Stifler's expertise is required to clarify.

He signed up at the end of last year for 3 years. I think he qualifies for veteran's list next year.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

He signed up at the end of last year for 3 years. I think he qualifies for veteran's list next year.

Are you sure it was 3 years Stiff? I'm sure I heard on KG and Cornes back in 2003 that he signed a 2 year contract worth about 500-550 per year. While I'm on contracts, why is it that Adelaide don't sign players to 1 year contracts like other teams. Is it becuase we are worried we may lose the player if we only offer a year contract?? Yeah right - I would be devastated if Ladhams, Massie, Shirley etc etc left us becuase they were'nt offered a 2 year contract.

BTW Stiff, how do you rate Patful??

 

[Stiffy_18]

Are you sure it was 3 years Stiff? I'm sure I heard on KG and Cornes back in 2003 that he signed a 2 year contract worth about 500-550 per year. While I'm on contracts, why is it that Adelaide don't sign players to 1 year contracts like other teams. Is it becuase we are worried we may lose the player if we only offer a year contract?? Yeah right - I would be devastated if Ladhams, Massie, Shirley etc etc left us becuase they were'nt offered a 2 year contract.

BTW Stiff, how do you rate Patful??

I am pretty sure it was a 3 year deal. The only big name player that signed a 2 year deal is Hart. The club has a policy not to signs up players to contracts that take then beyond 30 years of age.

Patfull is an interesting one. I have seen some games where he has been superb and have seen some games where he has been very average. Has a huge leap and is not a bad mark. However, I think he is too short for a KP. He is more like Welsh but not as talented. At his best he is excellent. At his worst he is very ordinary. The problem is that there is too big a gap between his good games and his bad games. Another worry is that he doesn't produce his best often enough. He is a goal kicker and kicked 100+ goals in a season at U17.

Rookie List at best IMHO.