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What's the most satisfying thing about this Ashes win?

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Ian Dargie

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For mine there are two parts to it.

The first is that few people saw it coming, certainly not to the extent that Australia would be
4-0 up going to Sydney. Before the series, England had every right to be favourites and their fans and their press had every right to be confident.

Look back at this commentary from the Daily Mail after the first day in Brisbane: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cr...d-demonstrates-gulf-teams--Martin-Samuel.html

So the fact that this Australian side, which I still think is a pretty long way short of South Africa, has absolutely taken England apart is amazing. They've done it on the back of some excellent fast bowling and spreading the load with the bat. Most importantly, they've done it through a team ethic of discipline and aggression. They've got right in England's face throughout and the tourists have rolled over despite having, on paper, a more accomplished group of players. I find that infinitely more satisfying than the 2006-07 series, when Australia's clearly superior team beat an England side that was out of its depth. And this series has been even more one-sided. It's been a demolition job, a hiding that should sting long after they depart and hopefully damages the mechanisms that would normally allow them to bounce back. They've got exactly what they deserved.

That brings me to the second part.

Because England arrived as favourites, confident of winning a fourth straight Ashes series, only to have their legs kicked out from under them, we've had the full spectrum of England's psyche on display: it starts with over-the-top hubris and exaggerated confidence instilled by moderate success and ends with the team showing zero backbone when properly challenged and their erstwhile cheerleaders wailing and gnashing their teeth after their earlier smugness has blown up in their face. That's the English way.

Don't get me wrong. Australians can be over-confident as well. But that was mostly when we had one of the greatest ever sides. In short, it was justified. In England's case, as we've seen, that smugness was not justified. On the flipside, Australia have also endured their fair share of losses recently and the reactions have sometimes been pretty ugly. So England are not alone in the bitterness of their recriminations. It is rare, though, that the pendulum swings so violently in the space of one tour and that's what's been so delicious: that England's cockiness has defeated them, that their little strut Down Under has ended up in abject humiliation.

Remember the Daily Mail headline about the "gulf between the teams"? Well, here we are six weeks later: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cr...l-batting-collapses-add-misery-thrashing.html. In their words: "Pathetic!" Looks like we've come full circle.

Three years ago Swann was doing a Sprinkler Dance. Now he's been smashed into retirement. That's how it ends, champ.

In short, it's a thumbnail sketch of everything Australians think is messed up with English cricket - by turns self-congratulatory but then very quickly soft and whiney. When they're quite good, they get carried away. When seriously challenged, they shit their pants. When they lose, they shit them again and complain about the nasty Australians. There's no doubt that the tables will turn down the road. But even in the event that England win the next Ashes or the one after, it's for these reasons that they will still invite the contempt that has been so gloriously vindicated this series.
 
Belting the shit out of them and contributing to the early retirements and sackings which will follow.
Remember how shit we were when we got beat in Australia last time. And then the last series in England when we sacked the coach right before the series started and were pretty much a rabble.

Well, this series has been even more one-sided than those. Probably even more one-sided than the whitewash in 2006-07, assuming England don't win in Sydney. And it's the pre-series favourites - not the underdog or a side that had been struggling - who have been completely dismantled. They came out thinking they were hot stuff and have been absolutely demolished, not just beaten. Every aspect of their team and their approach has been boiled down and turned into wet shit. This result will follow them home and it's been so satisfying to watch England fall off their perch and have their twee little delusions exposed.
 

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Mitchell Johnson. Watching a man who has copped so much shit from the barmy army utterly terrorise their batsmen has been awesome. He mentally destroyed them in the first test and they haven't recovered.

And Brad Haddin given where he has come from.
 
If you've ever spent any time in England, talking to English fans of a certain age, you come to understand that they were scarred by that period of Australian dominance from 1989-2006. Those experiences informed their perceptions of English cricket and boiled over into the excessive celebrations when they finally turned the tables and strung a few wins together.

Make no mistake, even when England were on top, the memory of that ritual battering they received for a generation was never far from the surface. Against that backdrop, this latest humiliation will be absolutely devastating. At least when Australia were awesome, they could hide behind resignation - that very English sense of 'oh well, we're a bit rubbish'. Not this time. They came out thinking they were big dogs but had their noses rubbed in it. That's a different kind of failure - not just being smashed but being surprised by how quickly and completely they were taken apart; that sinking feeling, completely unprepared for, of going from a position of strength to being on their knees. It's a whole new set of scars. A whole new chapter in their ingrained, pathological inadequacy.

The nature of sport is that England will recover and beat Australia again at some point. But will they ever smash us 5-0 after we started as favourites? That's a very different kind of failure that reveals something beyond cricket.

On the flipside, I suppose they can always pretend they don't even care about cricket. Again, that's the English way. That's why they're fundamentally, immutably shit, even in the years they manage to beat Australia.
 
the crying english fans.
I have a little sympathy for the players.
LOVING the epic tears and outrage from their fans.
I must admit enjoying a bit of the trauma as well....:)
You only get that when they started out thinking they'd win. That's the best part.

Their relative strength has come back to bite them. It's way worse than when they knew and accepted they simply weren't good enough.
 
If you've ever spent any time in England, talking to English fans of a certain age, you come to understand that they were scarred by that period of Australian dominance from 1989-2006. Those experiences informed their perceptions of English cricket and boiled over into the excessive celebrations when they finally turned the tables and strung a few wins together.

Make no mistake, even when England were on top, the memory of that ritual battering they received for a generation was never far from the surface. Against that backdrop, this latest humiliation will be absolutely devastating. At least when Australia were awesome, they could hide behind resignation - that very English sense of 'oh well, we're a bit rubbish'. Not this time. They came out thinking they were big dogs but had their noses rubbed in it. That's a different kind of failure - not just being smashed but being surprised by how quickly and completely they were taken apart; that sinking feeling, completely unprepared for, of going from a position of strength to being on their knees. It's a whole new set of scars. A whole new chapter in their ingrained, pathological inadequacy.

The nature of sport is that England will recover and beat Australia again at some point. But will they ever smash us 5-0 after we started as favourites? That's a very different kind of failure that reveals something beyond cricket.

On the flipside, I suppose they can always pretend they don't care about cricket. Again, that's the English way. That's why they're fundamentally, immutably shit, even in the years they manage to beat Australia.

I have a question for you. While I am both amazed and delighted by the results, in some ways I'm not surprised that we won the Ashes.

I thought there were some clear signs in the last tour we not only weren't far off them, but we also planted some seeds/worked a few players out, laid the foundations of plans for this tour. And of course, add in the reasons you articulated in your OP.

So my question is: was there a wide-spread perception that England would cane us over here?
 
So my question is: was there a wide-spread perception that England would cane us over here?
Maybe not caning but they were confident enough. Balanced minds saw that 3-0 flattered them in England so they may have expected a fight in Australia. But I doubt many seriously feared defeat, much less complete humiliation.

Realistically, before the series, how many Australians would have made a combined XI?

Clarke definitely. Maybe Warner over Carberry? Maybe Harris as the third quick?

Do that exercise again based on this series and you appreciate the turnaround. England didn't see that coming.
 
Maybe not caning but they were confident enough. Balanced minds saw that 3-0 flattered them in England so they may have expected a fight in Australia. But I doubt many seriously feared defeat, much less complete humiliation.

Very satisfying then!

I have to confess that I am a little amazed how they capitulated in this test though. It would appear to be a total disintegration of spirit and confidence.
 

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I have to confess that I am a little amazed how they capitulated in this test though. It would appear to be a total disintegration of spirit and confidence.
I am surprised by how bad they've been throughout.

The takeaway is this: When England are on top, even if Australia are ordinary, we scrap harder. Hell, we won a Test in 2010-11 when the wheels were falling off and managed to get into winning positions a couple of times earlier this year. But when it goes the other way, England fall apart and we tear them to pieces. That's not just about cricket. That's about character.

And a whitewash is exponentially worse than any other kind of loss. It shows that you've not just been beaten but that you failed to compete. I hope we burn England's entire infrastructure and personnel to the ground and write a song about it so they don't forget what happens when they get ahead of themselves.
 
The satisfaction one gets when reading the English and Australian print media. This beauty from Greg Baum today...

"It was a 36-year-old, short-sighted, colour-blind red-head, with as much backlift as Alastair Cook has initiative..."
 
Remember the Daily Mail headline about the "gulf between the teams"? Well, here we are six weeks later: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cr...l-batting-collapses-add-misery-thrashing.html. In their words: "Pathetic!" Looks like we've come full circle.

all fair commentary in OP :thumbsu:

Martin Samuel. Tsk. Tsk.
couldn't believe this line at the end of the first day in a five-Test series:
It was Australia whose claims of confidence and resurgence were exposed as so much blather; England and Broad who demonstrated the steely resolve that demonstrated the 3-0 gulf between the teams in the summer was perhaps not the fluke that has been depicted in these parts.

I've so far resisted the urge to gloat with my English mates - for three gut-wrenching Ashes series I've endured their politely condescending smugness and now I don't need to say a word - the results speak for themselves...

4-nil baby!
 
I've so far resisted the urge to gloat with my English mates - for three gut-wrenching Ashes series I've endured their politely condescending smugness and now I don't need to say a word - the results speak for themselves...
You have to give it to them. It's the only way they learn.
 

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If you've ever spent any time in England, talking to English fans of a certain age, you come to understand that they were scarred by that period of Australian dominance from 1989-2006. Those experiences informed their perceptions of English cricket and boiled over into the excessive celebrations when they finally turned the tables and strung a few wins together.

Make no mistake, even when England were on top, the memory of that ritual battering they received for a generation was never far from the surface. Against that backdrop, this latest humiliation will be absolutely devastating. At least when Australia were awesome, they could hide behind resignation - that very English sense of 'oh well, we're a bit rubbish'. Not this time. They came out thinking they were big dogs but had their noses rubbed in it. That's a different kind of failure - not just being smashed but being surprised by how quickly and completely they were taken apart; that sinking feeling, completely unprepared for, of going from a position of strength to being on their knees. It's a whole new set of scars. A whole new chapter in their ingrained, pathological inadequacy.

The nature of sport is that England will recover and beat Australia again at some point. But will they ever smash us 5-0 after we started as favourites? That's a very different kind of failure that reveals something beyond cricket.

On the flipside, I suppose they can always pretend they don't even care about cricket. Again, that's the English way. That's why they're fundamentally, immutably shit, even in the years they manage to beat Australia.

I might put this on my wall.
 
Satisfying thing for me is this summer Australians finally decided enough is enough with these smug pricks and everyone players, fans, local media have really got in their faces and they simply can't handle the same treatment we get over there
 
The takeaway is this: When England are on top, even if Australia are ordinary, we scrap harder. Hell, we won a Test in 2010-11 when the wheels were falling off and managed to get into winning positions a couple of times earlier this year. But when it goes the other way, England fall apart and we tear them to pieces. That's not just about cricket. That's about character.

And a whitewash is exponentially worse than any other kind of loss. It shows that you've not just been beaten but that you failed to compete. I hope we burn England's entire infrastructure and personnel to the ground and write a song about it so they don't forget what happens when they get ahead of themselves.

That's the English mentality. As I keep telling my Pommie mates, the English will happily play Test cricket for five days, draw the game and celebrate the draw hard into the night. We don't. We treat that as a loss.

But what else can you expect from a culture that sent people to a tropical paradise as 'punishment' while they continued to stay in shitholes like Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool and about 50 other English cities?
 
That we have exposed what has always been a mentally weak English cricket team. They've spent a few years beating up on an Australian side in on and off field disarray, which makes up the bulk of what they term a golden period for themselves. So many front runners with inflated egos, deluded about where they stand in the game, beating up on the notion of an Australian cricket team. I look at Broad's twitter, Prior, Anderson etc and it's bleeding obvious that this is a group of players that has believed it is doing what its predecessors couldn't. They have strutted as if having beaten up on the big bad monster that couldn't be tamed before, when the opponent before them has been anything but that. They didn't beat South Africa, they didn't win a world cup, they were #1 in the ICC rankings for...a few months? They've had their eyes on lesser prizes the entire time. Ironically, their golden era fits them like a glove. Aiming for and achieving mediocrity.

The fallout from Cricket Australia's submission to the BCCI couldn't have had worse ramifications. They betrayed their players, supporters and a brand of cricket that brought the best out of us for a long time. We played limp - we didn't have the same quality of player - but we played limp cricket with what he had, and that saw of a lot of leads surrendered, a lack of chirp, and an all-round unrecognisable group not enjoying the game. I want to say the most satisfying thing has been seeing us play our way again, seeing players enjoying and embracing the contest again, but the tall poppy culture we all know has me enjoying a deluded opposition being cut down to size that little bit more.
 

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