What's wrong with Collingwood?

[MarkT]

Yeh, all very interesting. It won’t be a surprise to anyone that I agree with a lot of it. Been saying for years that we re define failure to suit our results, we lack accountability and we confuse loyalty with acceptance. It has been an ordinary few years for the Collingwood between turnover of people who have done very well elsewhere, list management, on field results, financial performance…

We get the results we deserve I’m afraid.

 

[MarkT]

The problem I have with an analysis such as that is, however, that it perpetuates a myth that "lack of Premierships = not successful".

Perhaps it does and perhaps success can be viewed as something short of a premiership in some circumstances but after half a century and with the resources we have it is well passed the time when we should have adopted an uncompromising attitude toward premiership success. Hell it was Eddie himself who coined the phrase “nothing but the best for Collingwood”.

 

[Col Davies]

We should do a poll

 

[larrikan]

perceived success is our on field failure...there is an expectation placed upon all Collingwood teams...the very essence of being the Collingwood football club is a huge burden. Eddie and the administration are running a very good business model. Our media presence ensures the sponsorship money and support will be strong. Having a good coach with presence is part of that business model. Is MM the best coach available? Has he been the best coach available in recent years? Could a different coach manage this playing group better? I was walking around the Lexus centre a few years back and Bucks remarked that maybe the facilities were "too good". Crazy as it sounds, players at Collingwood have it all. They are spoiled with state of the art facilities and "Arizona" trips etc. IT is a perception of being successful. So we delude ourselves. I remember Chad Morrison being recruited as a "jonathon brown type player..yeah right!.....one side of the club is working and the football side is not...we got rid of Neil Balme...Geelong love him...we side stepped Arocca for Walsh...he is transforming the Kangaroos...now we look at Nathan Buckley as coach...why??? is he the best available?...our problem is on the field our gameplans are predictable...our players are an even spread of "good" players but lack leadership. When is the Collingwood football department going to be as important as the Collingwood business of making money...i hope soon.

 

[sloth6]

perceived success is our on field failure...there is an expectation placed upon all Collingwood teams...the very essence of being the Collingwood football club is a huge burden. Eddie and the administration are running a very good business model. Our media presence ensures the sponsorship money and support will be strong. Having a good coach with presence is part of that business model. Is MM the best coach available? Has he been the best coach available in recent years? Could a different coach manage this playing group better? I was walking around the Lexus centre a few years back and Bucks remarked that maybe the facilities were "too good". Crazy as it sounds, players at Collingwood have it all. They are spoiled with state of the art facilities and "Arizona" trips etc. IT is a perception of being successful. So we delude ourselves. I remember Chad Morrison being recruited as a "jonathon brown type player..yeah right!.....one side of the club is working and the football side is not...we got rid of Neil Balme...Geelong love him...we side stepped Arocca for Walsh...he is transforming the Kangaroos...now we look at Nathan Buckley as coach...why??? is he the best available?...our problem is on the field our gameplans are predictable...our players are an even spread of "good" players but lack leadership. When is the Collingwood football department going to be as important as the Collingwood business of making money...i hope soon.

It was Billy Morrison, Chad was an entirely different dud we recruited.

Some quality posts on this read. One of the best on the Magpies board.

 

[Axl the great]

Re: What's wrong with Collingwood? ........

So much has been discussed on this board about where we are at as a team over the past few years, development, coaching, gameplan, recruits, player faults, Eddie, the coach, the facilities and it goes on and on.

My take is that over the last 4 or 5 years players coming in to the club and some already here, dont understand what a bloody privelige it is to be a collingwood player.

This club was built on uncompromising hunger and determination every time we took the feild and even during our dark years with really bad lists, Every team in the comp knew when thay played us they would walk off that ground bloody sore knowing they had just played a real hard game of footy.

Players of yesteryear like Millane, Brown, Buckley, Burns, Monkhorst, Mcguane Barham, Shaw and many others absolutly bled black and white and playing for this club meant everything and not disgracing the jumper meant even more.

These players also did not play one good game in every 3 or 4 which is a common trait with the present bunch, if Gav Brown Tony Shaw etc played a really shit one you could guarantee the next week that he would come out like a ravenous animal such was his pride for himself and the club that
they had let down the week before would be quickly redeemed with a performance that would make up for it that week.

The current crop would obviously kill our 1990 team as the game has developed that far but as far as attack on the ball, mental strength and the utter ruthless approach on the ground this bunch wouldnt get near that team why not? excactly, why not because they are parts of the game that has not changed and thats where the problem lies again we dont have a current crop who love the jumper enough to be prepared to sacrifice like that every week from every player.

How to reslove it?
How about getting the ex players down regularly, have a chat listen to old footy tales and get perspective and insight from players who had real pride and passion in the jumper.

Learn about the club its culture, watch old footage of games and the way players used to play back then, look at your locker see the greats from the past whos footsteps you follow, read up on them learn about them ask the old timers what they were like Basically dont just go out there and play for Collingwood become PART OF COLLINGWOOD because this is not happening and is diminishing quicker by the year.

 

[larrikan]

sorry brain went numb writing so passionately..lol...of course it was Billy not Chad...point gets lost with that mix up...as for ex players, thats the leadership the current crop miss BUT a lot of ex players lately seem to attack the club with their "media jobs" maybe it's MM and his alpha male personality that discourages the ex players...personally i think it's one reason we need choco williams back...ex captain..respected...premiership coach...i just hope the current crop of fringe players reed dawes rusling mc carthy dick etc..develop to support the current team and wtf is it with us not having a ruckman for nearly 20 years...comon josh is a good ruck rover utility...he would be an exceptional backup and almost impossible to match up on around the ground...now i am hoping lachlan keefe comes through as a ruckman...please!!!

 

[bushpie]

My theory would be "Whats wrong with Collingwood SUPPORTERS"
If this keeps up all year there wont be any supporters. The talk of the town will be The Collingwood revolters. Next year forty thousand plus people looking for a new club.

 

[larrikan]

no revolters here bushpie...just constructive criticism...in fact, theres been very little slaggin' off at mm or players...we not bloody Richmond supporters who rip their member tickets up...i think Adelaide and Essendon games have spurred us to wonder why there was such a lack of fight/lockdown game plan...I've been a long time supporter of mm but i really am beginning to doubt if he is the best for this current group...the central corridor and top of the 50m ark are totally unguarded and opposition teams are exploiting it more than ever this year...if dimwits like us see it then why isn't the coaching staff doing something about it...

 

[Lazyboy]

Not once have I seen a player bleed for the jumper this year, I saw 4-5 Essendon players walking off bleeding on their filth jumper Anzac day...

Mick has also done nothing for Collingwood in terms of success, basic supporter bragging rights thanks to Mick = zero.. He has added to our pain, in actual fact Mick has increased the Collingwood laughing stock by making us the most inconsistent team in the history of football..

Mick has become the leader of perennial losers, Carlton last year, longest losing streak in history, what does Mick and the boys do? FAIL, lose the game, it was one game you HAD TO WIN FOR THE SUPPORTERS.. Anzac day 2009, FAIL, it goes on and on, games the supporters need the club to win they lose and win the games no one gives a flying **** about...

Its the story of the Malthouse Collingwood... Or the Lexus Magpies.. The Paris Hiltons of the AFL... The spoilt overpaid brats, the point is, they think they are good, they believe they are good, but when its comes to looking the beast in the eyes, they run like school girls..

We now have our captain Nick Maxwell coming out saying if you’re not going to help us win a flag or part of the clubs inner sanctum then I don’t care what you say.. Ok so ignore the people in the stands who pay your ****ing wage.. Maybe Nick if you could play football at a higher level you wouldn’t have too seek the tough guy image to justify your place in the side and get suspended every second week, you know you’re in trouble when supporters from the other side are actually upset your captain is missing the game through suspension

Our motto side by side is so far from the club in reality it’s like a dodgy catch phrase from a dominos ad.. Side by Side is more a reflection on the clubs supporters suffering in the stands and at home every other week having to watch the club lose its culture and dignity at the hands of a coach who fails to listen and adjust and now a captain who seems to think he is in some special select world where he will magically win premierships if he blocks the evil nay sayers..

They are hiding up there in the clouds at Lexus, the biggest club in Australia, so Eddie seems to think, but really, we all know they are the biggest losers in Australia hands down, there is not one winner on that list, none of them have won **** all, let alone a premiership, as footballers and as a club Collingwood fails time and time again to deliver... But they will happily take our membership money then perform like overpaid tossers...

Enough is enough, I want some heart and soul back in the club and especially the players... show some pride and respect ffs.. it’s the very least you can do..

 

[PieBeast]

In todays Hun p 20 there is a bit about Dids and Swany starting up a fashion label . Now ? WTF? Swany has been good but : Didak was nearly traded last year after his adventures , injured ATM, we are coming of one our worst losses in years , supporters are fuming , Josh gets rubbished in the media , question mark over coaches position . VERY wrong timing in my book , and maybe it does proove a point that current players do not bleed BLACK and WHITE.

 

[Chief Ten Beers]

in 1994-5 we we a much older side and didn't help ourselves by hanging onto premiership players until well past their use-by date. We are far better placed now than we were then IMO.

Yet we persist with Lockeyer and Rocca? Even O'Bree to an extent?

It's a lost cause I'm afraid. Everyone keeps on saying Rocca's the key to the gameplan, key to September. I'd agree with that...........if he was about 5 or 6 years younger.

I wish the Pies were more ruthless.

 

[Axl the great]

Not once have I seen a player bleed for the jumper this year, I saw 4-5 Essendon players walking off bleeding on their filth jumper Anzac day...

Mick has also done nothing for Collingwood in terms of success, basic supporter bragging rights thanks to Mick = zero.. He has added to our pain, in actual fact Mick has increased the Collingwood laughing stock by making us the most inconsistent team in the history of football..

Mick has become the leader of perennial losers, Carlton last year, longest losing streak in history, what does Mick and the boys do? FAIL, lose the game, it was one game you HAD TO WIN FOR THE SUPPORTERS.. Anzac day 2009, FAIL, it goes on and on, games the supporters need the club to win they lose and win the games no one gives a flying **** about...

Its the story of the Malthouse Collingwood... Or the Lexus Magpies.. The Paris Hiltons of the AFL... The spoilt overpaid brats, the point is, they think they are good, they believe they are good, but when its comes to looking the beast in the eyes, they run like school girls..

We now have our captain Nick Maxwell coming out saying if you’re not going to help us win a flag or part of the clubs inner sanctum then I don’t care what you say.. Ok so ignore the people in the stands who pay your ****ing wage.. Maybe Nick if you could play football at a higher level you wouldn’t have too seek the tough guy image to justify your place in the side and get suspended every second week, you know you’re in trouble when supporters from the other side are actually upset your captain is missing the game through suspension

Our motto side by side is so far from the club in reality it’s like a dodgy catch phrase from a dominos ad.. Side by Side is more a reflection on the clubs supporters suffering in the stands and at home every other week having to watch the club lose its culture and dignity at the hands of a coach who fails to listen and adjust and now a captain who seems to think he is in some special select world where he will magically win premierships if he blocks the evil nay sayers..

They are hiding up there in the clouds at Lexus, the biggest club in Australia, so Eddie seems to think, but really, we all know they are the biggest losers in Australia hands down, there is not one winner on that list, none of them have won **** all, let alone a premiership, as footballers and as a club Collingwood fails time and time again to deliver... But they will happily take our membership money then perform like overpaid tossers...

Enough is enough, I want some heart and soul back in the club and especially the players... show some pride and respect ffs.. it’s the very least you can do..

Nice post mate, im glad someone else wants some passion for the jumper back and wont accept mediocre performance anymore.
I dont really care if we lose if i can see those blokes have given every last cent to winning a game that such as 2002 GF is something i can cop but its not the situation at the moment.

 

[gopies1981]

What's Wrong with Collingwood? 77 final series, 40 Grand-Finals (12 Grand-finals in Last 50 years for 1 win, 10 losses and 1 Draw) and only 14 Premierships!

But we have also managed to still be the biggest Victorian Club in Australia and that is due to being in 29 final series in the last 50 years and competing in 12 Grand-finals!

Compared to Carlton who in the last 50 years have been in 28 final Series for 8 premierships and Essendon who have been in 29 final series for 6 premierships we are failures due to not winning premierships!

we need to change our culture of us being victims and make a winning culture but how we do that i have no idea!

 

[Axl the great]

What's Wrong with Collingwood? 77 final series, 39 Grand-Finals (12 Grand-finals in Last 50 years for 1 win, 10 losses and 1 Draw) and only 14 Premierships!

But we have also managed to still be the biggest Victorian Club in Australia and that is due to being in 29 final series in the last 50 years and competeing in 12 Grand-finals!

Compared to Carlton who in the last 50 years have been in 28 final Series for 8 premierships and Essendon who have been in 29 final series for 6 premierships we are failures due to not winning premierships!

we need to change our culture of us being victims and make a winning culture but how we do that i have no idea!

Read my post no31 in this thread and i reckon id go a long way to fixing the culture.

 

[Old Spice]

A Carlton mate of mine suggested to me some weeks ago that Collingwood supporters perpetually overate their list and prospects and consequently don't put the hard pressure on that's required.

Dermie spoke on SEN last week about playing a game for the Pies and then slaps on the back after a loss when he entered the club-rooms. Dermie felt that while Pies supporters were loyal, we shouldn't be singing songs of praise when the team lost.

We're not Richmond, which sits at the other extreme - ready to pull the knife out at the first hurdle - but maybe we're not expectant enough.

I like the idea of inculcating a club traditon, but in some ways it's hard in a national draft situation. Still, some history of the club could be the remedy for young players whose only experience of the Pies growing up was probably hatred of the team and Colliwobbles.

I said last year on another site we probably needed a good club psychologist to lift our team mentally. There's no substitute for skill and game-plans, but a sense of tradition could be a powerful motivating factor.

 

[MAKESHIFT]

A Carlton mate of mine suggested to me some weeks ago that Collingwood supporters perpetually overate their list and prospects and consequently don't put the hard pressure on that's required.

Dermie spoke on SEN last week about playing a game for the Pies and then slaps on the back after a loss when he entered the club-rooms. Dermie felt that while Pies supporters were loyal, we shouldn't be singing songs of praise when the team lost.

We're not Richmond, which sits at the other extreme - ready to pull the knife out at the first hurdle - but maybe we're not expectant enough.

I like the idea of inculcating a club traditon, but in some ways it's hard in a national draft situation. Still, some history of the club could be the remedy for young players whose only experience of the Pies growing up was probably hatred of the team and Colliwobbles.

I said last year on another site we probably needed a good club psychologist to lift our team mentally. There's no substitute for skill and game-plans, but a sense of tradition could be a powerful motivating factor.

They have a great sports psychologist. That is not their problem MM needs to spend more time visiting him and learn to get his head out of his own arse.
He needs to play his best 22 and make the hard calls and drop players that are not performing well even if they are the more Senior players.
He plays them week in week out and alot of them let us down. Yes it is good to have experience on the ground but at what cost. Some of these players are past their use by date and at the end of the year when MM has gone I hope some of these players go too or are moved from key positions to make way for the up and coming.......

 

[pongo_3931]

A Carlton mate of mine suggested to me some weeks ago that Collingwood supporters perpetually overate their list and prospects and consequently don't put the hard pressure on that's required.

Dermie spoke on SEN last week about playing a game for the Pies and then slaps on the back after a loss when he entered the club-rooms. Dermie felt that while Pies supporters were loyal, we shouldn't be singing songs of praise when the team lost.

We're not Richmond, which sits at the other extreme - ready to pull the knife out at the first hurdle - but maybe we're not expectant enough.

I like the idea of inculcating a club traditon, but in some ways it's hard in a national draft situation. Still, some history of the club could be the remedy for young players whose only experience of the Pies growing up was probably hatred of the team and Colliwobbles.

I said last year on another site we probably needed a good club psychologist to lift our team mentally. There's no substitute for skill and game-plans, but a sense of tradition could be a powerful motivating factor.

I'd throw my hat in the ring for club shrink next year when I get to hang the shingle, however, I have heard through a source I consider to be reasonable, that MM gives very little credence to club psychologists. So whilst MM is at the helm I doubt we'll see a shrink closely involved. (for memory Matty Loyds brother is collingwood's psych -at least what I've been told).

As for overrating, I agree. The main thing I felt when we lost Anzac day was not that we were s**t, but rather disappointed and availed to the idea that we're not as good as we say we are.

All the spin, all the junk and the reality is, is that we're just not that good a side (yet?). We need to get back to basics, cut all the talking up, take a few shots in the media and get down and dirty, lets get out of the business of business and back into the business of playing football. I want to see the whole side hungry and bloodthirsty not just 2 or 3 of em.

Perhaps I'm overreacting... perhaps I'm not.

 

[loki04]

not once have i seen a player bleed for the jumper this year, i saw 4-5 essendon players walking off bleeding on their filth jumper anzac day...

Mick has also done nothing for collingwood in terms of success, basic supporter bragging rights thanks to mick = zero.. He has added to our pain, in actual fact mick has increased the collingwood laughing stock by making us the most inconsistent team in the history of football..

Mick has become the leader of perennial losers, carlton last year, longest losing streak in history, what does mick and the boys do? Fail, lose the game, it was one game you had to win for the supporters.. Anzac day 2009, fail, it goes on and on, games the supporters need the club to win they lose and win the games no one gives a flying **** about...

Its the story of the malthouse collingwood... Or the lexus magpies.. The paris hiltons of the afl... The spoilt overpaid brats, the point is, they think they are good, they believe they are good, but when its comes to looking the beast in the eyes, they run like school girls..

We now have our captain nick maxwell coming out saying if you’re not going to help us win a flag or part of the clubs inner sanctum then i don’t care what you say.. Ok so ignore the people in the stands who pay your ****ing wage.. Maybe nick if you could play football at a higher level you wouldn’t have too seek the tough guy image to justify your place in the side and get suspended every second week, you know you’re in trouble when supporters from the other side are actually upset your captain is missing the game through suspension

Our motto side by side is so far from the club in reality it’s like a dodgy catch phrase from a dominos ad.. Side by side is more a reflection on the clubs supporters suffering in the stands and at home every other week having to watch the club lose its culture and dignity at the hands of a coach who fails to listen and adjust and now a captain who seems to think he is in some special select world where he will magically win premierships if he blocks the evil nay sayers..

They are hiding up there in the clouds at lexus, the biggest club in australia, so eddie seems to think, but really, we all know they are the biggest losers in australia hands down, there is not one winner on that list, none of them have won **** all, let alone a premiership, as footballers and as a club collingwood fails time and time again to deliver... But they will happily take our membership money then perform like overpaid tossers...

Enough is enough, i want some heart and soul back in the club and especially the players... Show some pride and respect ffs.. It’s the very least you can do..

great post.

 

[loki04]

Nice post mate, im glad someone else wants some passion for the jumper back and wont accept mediocre performance anymore.
I dont really care if we lose if i can see those blokes have given every last cent to winning a game that such as 2002 GF is something i can cop but its not the situation at the moment.

Exactly even though we lost i was as proud as punch to be a pie supporter that day, those blokes can hold their head high great team.