Analysis Where to from here?

[geelong_crazy26]

All is well then?

in what regard? Disappointed after last night if that’s what your asking

 

[cats_09]

cats_09 isn’t this just the Chris Scott thread rebranded into a new one?

I've had a quick read of the first post (slept in so catching up on like 500 pages of reading at the moment)

I'll have a full read through this as I'm sure the mods will also - if it turns into another all about Scott thread, then we can look at merging the threads. But I'm hoping it's more like what CatToTheFuture said, and if it stays on that track then all good

It doesn't have to be. I think there are positional and strategic changes we can discuss constructively without it just being unhinged ranting.

 

[CatAttack84]

@cats_09 isn’t this just the Chris Scott thread rebranded into a new one?

No, as there are many contributors to the issue, the coach is but one. there are players, asst coaches, even the board.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

No, as there are many contributors to the issue, the coach is but one. there are players, asst coaches, even the board.

just for clarity on this horrible panic issue of finishing top four consistently making a grand final making prelims etc over the years, which sounds painful for everyone. Can’t imagine what some will do if we actually performed bad like Carlton st kilda.

so a simple question: name a club who has decided to rebuild and sack its coach after top four finish in the history of modern AFL?? Or label it as failures

 

[Down at K Park]

leave your emotions aside. You have a Chris Scott thread to sook in, no need to fill the forum up with garbage threads

This isn’t about scott, but the club as a whole moving forward. More importantly list management.

You just need to accept that scott isn’t the messiah you want him to be.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

This isn’t about scott, but the club as a whole moving forward. More importantly list management.

You just need to accept that scott isn’t the messiah you want him to be.

which Part of list management would have you liked different after the grand final last year?

 

[Baudolino]

You just need to accept that scott isn’t the messiah you want him to be.

In your view, has Scott got enough out of the current playing list in finals over the past two years? Could he have won a premiership with this group?

My answer to those questions is "no" and "yes", btw. So imo he's under-performed in finals. Curious to know your view though.

 

[Down at K Park]

In your view, has Scott got enough out of the current playing list in finals over the past two years? Could he have won a premiership with this group?

My answer to those questions is "no" and "yes", btw. So imo he's under-performed in finals. Curious to know your view though.

We had the potential to win flags, yes. Last year proved that. We should have gone on and won imo. We had the tigers right where we wanted them. Then tried to defend the lead. And panicked after that. The problem is mental. We are mentally weak.

Scott doesn’t get the best out of the players though. Look at the way guthrie is playing atm for example. And menegola. Both look like they couldn’t be bothered. And scott’s stubbornness hanging onto players who aren’t up to it is infuriating. But he has to stick to his favourites no matter how poor their form is. It’s madness.

 

[Wojcinski]

Stanley, Higgins, Rohan, Dahlhaus, Henderson, Jenkins out the door please. I know some of these guys can still play, and some are probably contacted for next year but I'd rather give games to younger players. Let the rest of the current old blokes play out their contracts. I've felt this way all season.

Scott is contracted for 2022, many of the old brigade have contracts finishing in 2022. We won't be good enough for the flag next year, but we'll probably make the 8. Scott + about 8 of the old blokes will go and we'll be playing low draft picks with minimal experience come 2023. We'll be 100% stuffed for a decade unless we're proactive and start a proper rebuild next year.

 

[Baudolino]

We had the potential to win flags, yes. Last year proved that. We should have gone on and won imo. We had the tigers right where we wanted them. Then tried to defend the lead. And panicked after that. The problem is mental. We are mentally weak.

Scott doesn’t get the best out of the players though. Look at the way guthrie is playing atm for example. And menegola. Both look like they couldn’t be bothered. And scott’s stubbornness hanging onto players who aren’t up to it is infuriating. But he has to stick to his favourites no matter how poor their form is. It’s madness.

Okay so given that you agree we had the potential to win flags with this list and that Scott is largely to blame for our failure to do so, I take it that you acknowledge then that our recruitment strategy was both the right approach to follow and was executed effectively, as it resulted in us assembling that group with flag-winning potential?

 

[Night90Cat]

We've been unsettled at the wrong time of the season, let's just ride it out and get behind the club and see if we can grind out 3 more wins.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

In your view, has Scott got enough out of the current playing list in finals over the past two years? Could he have won a premiership with this group?

My answer to those questions is "no" and "yes", btw. So imo he's under-performed in finals. Curious to know your view though.

what’s interesting regarding those games and leads against Richmond, when you listen to Damien hardwick he has said the reason we were in front was Scott’s tactical changes he sprung which forced them to make adjustments. He said this after the 19 prelim in his presser.

the grand final footage at half time shows him talking for a minute about strategic changes to the side they needed to make.

on both occasions it’s highlighted that tactics were the reason for the lead, not effort or pressure or anything.

 

[Mr_Cat_Man01]

I agree as some have said let’s see what happens next week possibly beyond.

I think a good thing is Steve Hocking is coming in Now. This could be a very important period of change at GFC. Hocking knows Scott very well obviously and is a high performer. Having been away for 4/5 years and with his level of experience I think he will have a huge say on what goes on with the future of the coach. I’m sure he rates Scott but at the same time he wants ultimate success.

I think integrating more youth will be the way and hopefully managing out more of the older guys.

First thing is trying to win next week.

 

[00VicWard001]

what’s interesting regarding those games and leads against Richmond, when you listen to Damien hardwick he has said the reason we were in front was Scott’s tactical changes he sprung which forced them to make adjustments. He said this after the 19 prelim in his presser.

the grand final footage at half time shows him talking for a minute about strategic changes to the side they needed to make.

on both occasions it’s highlighted that tactics were the reason for the lead, not effort or pressure or anything.

Yeah, the team (players and coaches) may have lost last night and last year - but gee they tried. It wasn’t for lack of effort or care. Sometime everything goes wrong and you take your licks and get back up again.

The one thing that threads like this always degenerate to is that they never respect the effort By the players and coaches. Win or lose, I always respect the effort that these guys put in for my entertainment.

I find the commentary of supporters reveals a lot about who they are.

It’s fine to be disappointed in the outcome, as I am, but as Baudolino and yourself have pointed out - the organisation and team have done a lot right over the years to get us to this point.

Last night - Healy was saying - having Stewart and Tuohy out affected the system. And when the system is affected - players are exposed. And if your top line talent don’t do something special - then your b/graders are very exposed (as an example - Last year, we took apart Richmond’s system - and they won because their marquee player played the game of his life).

Anyway - my thoughts- I think we continue on as we have over the last 10 years and continue to enjoy the team giving their all every week, win or lose.

 

[Night90Cat]

from above

"The one thing that threads like this always degenerate to is that they never respect the effort By the players and coaches. Win or lose, I always respect the effort that these guys put in for my entertainment."

spot on Vic Ward

it's so important to be a supporter first, foremost and always

GO CATS!

 

[BlakeyNoFlakey]

Let's wait and see how the rest of the finals play out before we start tearing the place down. I think Scotty is a good coach and his record is good. We did look like we were going to win a premiership at halftime in last year's GF until Dusty tore it from our grip. It's hard to win the finals let alone a GF. But I do think if we face this again at the end of 2022 the Cats should let Scotty go. He's had long enough at the club. The Cats badly need some fresh ideas and perspectives in the coaching department. Time to let some assistant coaches go who have been there far too long and have grown too comfortable.

 

[UnitedWarrior93]

Of course you’ve always got to wait and see as we are still in finals, but I think it’s very clear this is it, we are done, this group I don’t think can win a flag, and especially under Scott. I know he has a great H&A record but no sane person can defend his finals record, I mean we are 1-8 now in QF’s, it’s simply atrocious.

We need some major changes made, and if it means spending a few years in the bottom 6, so be it, we can’t keep adding to this list and expecting a different result because it’s not working and hasn’t for 10 years.

 

[Down at K Park]

Okay so given that you agree we had the potential to win flags with this list and that Scott is largely to blame for our failure to do so, I take it that you acknowledge then that our recruitment strategy was both the right approach to follow and was executed effectively, as it resulted in us assembling that group with flag-winning potential?

We had just as many losses as wins in terms of recruiting older players. And its burning our future at the same time. The problem i see is holding onto those players when they are cooked, and continually picking those players instead of the younger up and comer. Look at dahl. He’s fried. Evans should have taken his place.

Higgins and jack stevens too. We gave up a pick 30 for higgins ffs. We might have got an ok player with that pick.

Cameron was a no brainer, and smith has been good too, but he cost us nothing as a free agent.

It’s balancing the side towards youth that we should have focused on. Not recruiting 34 yr olds that are cooked.

 

[My Tilly]

Stanley, Higgins, Rohan, Dahlhaus, Henderson, Jenkins out the door please. I know some of these guys can still play, and some are probably contacted for next year but I'd rather give games to younger players. Let the rest of the current old blokes play out their contracts. I've felt this way all season.

Scott is contracted for 2022, many of the old brigade have contracts finishing in 2022. We won't be good enough for the flag next year, but we'll probably make the 8. Scott + about 8 of the old blokes will go and we'll be playing low draft picks with minimal experience come 2023. We'll be 100% stuffed for a decade unless we're proactive and start a proper rebuild next year.

That's good and all to be suggesting his now but it's a just a little too late don't you think?

The team we have right now is the one we will have to manage over the next few seasons. This means older players will have to remain in the best 22 or thereabouts.
I know people will hate it but we may have to just pump games into younger players next season in the hope it steadfast's their development so in 5 years time, we have a batch of players on 100-125 games and holding their own weight.

 

[allrighty]

We know how it’s going to play out. We’ve seen the script that many times.
We are done.

IF ................. we get to the GF I won't be watching I am afraid. This side is the most tantalising but at the same time unedifying I think I have ever seen, and I'm not sure my heart and brain can take another game like last year's.

 

[Daitro]

just for clarity on this horrible panic issue of finishing top four consistently making a grand final making prelims etc over the years, which sounds painful for everyone. Can’t imagine what some will do if we actually performed bad like Carlton st kilda.

so a simple question: name a club who has decided to rebuild and sack its coach after top four finish in the history of modern AFL?? Or label it as failures

Finishing top four is not an achievement when you make list decisions to go all out for a premiership, whilst mortgaging the future. It is an expectation. Up until last night we have parred the course by finishing top four with the list make-up we have and the lack of young players we have put time into for the year. We have now double-bogeyed the first hole on the back nine and we have some tricky water hazards to come.

A straight sets exit; no matter how you want to spin it, would be an abject failure. I do though, expect us to come out and crush it next week, because thats what we do and I don't see us without a chance of winning it this year despite Scott and the team's inability to overcome the mental demons that seem to preclude this team from performing at an adequate level when the opportunity for success is within it's grasp.

 

[Wojcinski]

That's good and all to be suggesting his now but it's a just a little too late don't you think?

The team we have right now is the one we will have to manage over the next few seasons. This means older players will have to remain in the best 22 or thereabouts.
I know people will hate it but we may have to just pump games into younger players next season in the hope it steadfast's their development so in 5 years time, we have a batch of players on 100-125 games and holding their own weight.

well yeah of course its too little too late, we can't control that though, they can only control the future from here and I just hope they follow the rebuild path and IF we go after players from other clubs they are in that 22-25 demographic and not older.

 

[gaz love x]

Forget about wholesale list changes because it can't happen, we've made our bed with regards to the age profile. It'll be a little jarring with some retirements but it is what it is. Bottoming out shouldn't be the goal because it doesn't help. Finish as high up the ladder as possible and hope we can bring in enough youth in the next two seasons to NOT fall all the way to the bottom. Then we'll have cap space and some options.
In the meantime change the game style so we're actually working towards something and even make us enjoyable to watch. How good would enjoying a game we don't win by 10+ goals be? I'm not holding my breath though.

 

[My Tilly]

well yeah of course its too little too late, we can't control that though, they can only control the future from here and I just hope they follow the rebuild path and IF we go after players from other clubs they are in that 22-25 demographic and not older.

I think this club is not going to entertain the thought of rebuilding. Not a chance at all.
I think they will do exactly what they have done each passing year since 2013. Next year we will go after Daniel Talia.
Definitely see us looking at seasoned midfielder to help Dangerfield and Selwood. Someone on the outer at their own club but still has a year or two left in them. Maybe a Zaharakis or someone like that who can take games away from a younger midfielder already on our list.

 

[Down at K Park]

Forget about wholesale list changes because it can't happen, we've made our bed with regards to the age profile. It'll be a little jarring with some retirements but it is what it is. Bottoming out shouldn't be the goal because it doesn't help. Finish as high up the ladder as possible and hope we can bring in enough youth in the next two seasons to NOT fall all the way to the bottom. Then we'll have cap space and some options.
In the meantime change the game style so we're actually working towards something and even make us enjoyable to watch. How good would enjoying a game we don't win by 10+ goals be? I'm not holding my breath though.

No reason we can’t bring some fresh blood through and still finish around the 8. We don’t need to rebuild from the ground up. We have the solid core there. Just need to blood guys like sdk, krueger, clark, evans etc. Hopefully cooper as well if he’d just stay fit.