Analysis Where to from here?

[Down at K Park]

I think this club is not going to entertain the thought of rebuilding. Not a chance at all.
I think they will do exactly what they have done each passing year since 2013. Next year we will go after Daniel Talia.
Definitely see us looking at seasoned midfielder to help Dangerfield and Selwood. Someone on the outer at their own club but still has a year or two left in them. Maybe a Zaharakis or someone like that who can take games away from a younger midfielder already on our list.

Probably. What an exercise is futility though. It just doesn’t work.

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

I think this club is not going to entertain the thought of rebuilding. Not a chance at all.
I think they will do exactly what they have done each passing year since 2013. Next year we will go after Daniel Talia.
Definitely see us looking at seasoned midfielder to help Dangerfield and Selwood. Someone on the outer at their own club but still has a year or two left in them. Maybe a Zaharakis or someone like that who can take games away from a younger midfielder already on our list.

This. We won't change anything, the club will play it safe and give Scott an extension and continue topping up.

As for this year, we aren't winning anything, we've played 2 qtrs of good footy in a month, we look cooked.

 

[My Tilly]

This. We won't change anything, the club will play it safe and give Scott an extension and continue topping up.

As for this year, we aren't winning anything, we've played 2 qtrs of good footy in a month, we look cooked.

You saw it on their faces when Gawn kicked that goal.

Hit them all for six. It also showed the rest of the competition how mentally fragile we are.
All teams hope to play Geelong in the finals. You may not hear that spoken aloud but trust me, they are always gunning for us.

 

[Cat Woman]

As much as people vent against Chris Scott

Chris Scott

Age

49

Ht

182cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.2

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

, some players and list strategy I think we need to remember we have been very unfortunate to lose
Stewart and Toohey on the eve of finals. We have had a very settled back six all year. Any team would struggle losing the two players that provide run off half back.
Stewart in particular is an All Australian defender, one of the best in the AFL. September often comes down to who has a healthy list.

 

[Footy_Fan2007]

IF ................. we get to the GF I won't be watching I am afraid. This side is the most tantalising but at the same time unedifying I think I have ever seen, and I'm not sure my heart and brain can take another game like last year's.

You won’t need to worry about making the GF mate. We will be eliminated next week.

 

[Jmac2225]

You won’t need to worry about making the GF mate. We will be eliminated next week.

Honestly I think we will turn it around and have a solid win against whoever we play next week only to cop hiding from Dees in the PF.

 

[Down at K Park]

Honestly I think we will turn it around and have a solid win against whoever we play next week only to cop hiding from Dees in the PF.

Yeah one or the other. You can almost set your watch to us completely shitting bed at some point.

 

[Catman]

Can't see us contending next year. So many older guys another year older. They aren't going to be any better.

The transition needs to commence. Blood some more young guys and clean out the coaches box. Decide whether you want Scott overseeing a rebuild. If he is, then surround him with some fresh voices. I'd argue for fresh voices regardless, but a potential new coach in 2022 may want their own people in. Promote Grigg to a full time assistant role. Does Simon Lloyd's position get looked at?

A change in the message from the top of the club. This bucking the system has seemingly become their #1 KPI on determining success, and I reckon that has filtered down to the football side. Mediocrity has returned, content to just play finals, which provides enough incentive for fans to continue to hand over their hard earned. But every fan has a limit, and surely season after season of finals failures eventually wears thin for many people.

 

[Cdog71]

Hope I dont get whacked for posting on here.
One thing I’ve noticed over the last 5-6 years is how few goals you guys get off the floor. You dont seem to have the dangerous HF’s anymore now GAJ has retired.
I reckon Richmond modelled Dusty’s game off Chapman your club was always dangerous with those type players.
You’ve always had really strong marking forwards even this year Rohan and Cameron only played around 30 games between em but with Hawkins over it’s over 120 goals but then its Miers and Tuohy with 13.
I think you need someone like Fantasia last night.
Miers has been a small fwd all his junior career, he loves a goal he might make the odd stuff up but he’s always confident.
He should be told to go fwd and get hungry.

Best of luck next week.

 

[maxy87]

The club needs to be prepared to absorb a year or two at the bottom end of the 8 or outside of the 8 to:
a) allow for the development of the next generation of players already on the list (e.g. Narkle, Constable, Stephens, SDK, Clark) and accept that there will be some inconsistent results
b) get access to some better draft picks (which we actually use on bona fide footballers not speculative kids and athletes).

There needs to be a balance. The club can use free agency and the money ball method on a needs basis as part of a broader list management strategy. But there has to be an emphasis on quality and longevity. People talk about Constable, Narkle, Clark etc not having a defensive game. Fair enough. The modern game is all about defence. But this can be taught and developed. Football nous, on the hand, is innate.
As a long time supporter and member I would be very happy to wear a few down seasons to reinvigorate the list.I think we are seeing first hand what happens when you prioritise fitness and ability to cover the ground defensively over footballing ability. It holds you in good stead throughout the minor rounds but eventually it gets exposed.

I would also entertain a change in the coaching ranks. Not necessarily Scott but perhaps the others. Things appear very comfy and stable down at the cattery, which is anathema to the culture that Harley and Ling built as captains of the club.

 

[SkittleCats]

Im probably just going to repeat myself here from the Autopsy and Christ Scott Coaching threads, but this is a good thread to keep all this discussion contained in.

I think the bottom line is we need a fresh set of eyes in the coaches box now. Someone who can come into the club and re-evaluate the list, gameplan, and assistant coaches. There are fundamental questions about our list that i dont believe Scott is capable of answering anymore: What is Selwoods role in this team at his age now? What is Dangerfields? Who can get more out of Parfitt, Kolo, Miers and Bews to name a few? Why are we a chance to lose all of Narkle, Clarke, Constable and Fort at the end of this year while we persist with the likes of Zuthrie, Blicavs, O'Connor and Dahlhaus? Scott has hitched his wagon to a tranche of players who have consistently proven incapable of contributing under pressure, and it continues to kill us. We need a coach who can assess everyone without preconceived ideas about who he likes.

Post 2010 the list had become lethargic, Thompson leaving and Scott coming in made every player on the list suddenly wake up. If you read the stories from players at the time, when they got the news of Scott being hired there were players who started doing laps of Central Park in NY on their summer break because they suddenly had to prove themselves to a new coach. If Scott contributed anything to our 2011 success it was that.

If we accept as true the need to replace the coach then we have to decide who we bring in and why. Either we bring in an experienced coach to maintain our flag window for another year or two and see what happens. And then after that reassess once the likes of Hawkins, Selwood, Danger et al are all either retired or close to it. Or we bring in a coach on a long term deal who will start the rebuild right away. Maybe they will be the same person, someone who can win now and then commence the rebuild and transition the superstars out, but my gut says the older more experienced coach wont have a desire to win now and then spend the better part of 5-10 years rebuilding the list before contending again.

The dream is that we convince Clarko that coming here for 2-3 years and coaching this list and maybe winning a flag is worth delaying his holiday plans for. He is the guy i can see being able to hit the ground running and would immediately command the respect of the playing list. But my expectation with Clarko is that he would be a short term hire to win us a flag now, not the long term rebuild option as well. We would have to reassess after our window closes. Although maybe after the way the Dawks treated him he would commit to a rebuild just to spite them. The only other coach without training wheels that i can think of whose actually been there before and available is Ross Lyon but im not convinced he is the guy.

Beyond that, and if we fully embrace the rebuild now, then you could bring in anyone, training wheels or not, because this is the guy who we would expect to be here for another 10 years and develop along with the list he coaches. But his tenure would start with a slew of retirements, delistings and trades to elevate the young players on the list who have shown something and bring in draft capital. The rebuild mode isnt just a coaching change, it is an entire football department adjustment. The entire club would have to be behind this guy while we struggle for the first 2-3 years of his tenure. Whoever we choose to coach us will have to rebuild the culture as well as the list, that's a big ask. Maybe Brendan McCartney is the guy in that scenario? Although there are many other names out there i am sure.

 

[Gazzathegoat]

Hope I dont get whacked for posting on here.
One thing I’ve noticed over the last 5-6 years is how few goals you guys get off the floor. You dont seem to have the dangerous HF’s anymore now GAJ has retired.
I reckon Richmond modelled Dusty’s game off Chapman your club was always dangerous with those type players.
You’ve always had really strong marking forwards even this year Rohan and Cameron only played around 30 games between em but with Hawkins over it’s over 120 goals but then its Miers and Tuohy with 13.
I think you need someone like Fantasia last night.
Miers has been a small fwd all his junior career, he loves a goal he might make the odd stuff up but he’s always confident.
He should be told to go fwd and get hungry.

Best of luck next week.

Agree with you 100%
We went after the wrong Higgins in the offseason. Jack Higgins would have been much better suited.

 

[00VicWard001]

The club needs to be prepared to absorb a year or two at the bottom end of the 8 or outside of the 8 to:
a) allow for the development of the next generation of players already on the list (e.g. Narkle, Constable, Stephens, SDK, Clark) and accept that there will be some inconsistent results
b) get access to some better draft picks (which we actually use on bona fide footballers not speculative kids and athletes).

There needs to be a balance. The club can use free agency and the money ball method on a needs basis as part of a broader list management strategy. But there has to be an emphasis on quality and longevity. People talk about Constable, Narkle, Clark etc not having a defensive game. Fair enough. The modern game is all about defence. But this can be taught and developed. Football nous, on the hand, is innate.
As a long time supporter and member I would be very happy to wear a few down seasons to reinvigorate the list.I think we are seeing first hand what happens when you prioritise fitness and ability to cover the ground defensively over footballing ability. It holds you in good stead throughout the minor rounds but eventually it gets exposed.

I would also entertain a change in the coaching ranks. Not necessarily Scott but perhaps the others. Things appear very comfy and stable down at the cattery, which is anathema to the culture that Harley and Ling built as captains of the club.

Great points - but I do not think that footy nous over defensive mindset is going to win you games.

Dusty is an instinctive football prodigy who cannot defend. The reason they win is because the rest of the team run hard and defend and harass so that he can do his thing. The second the team defensive system breaks down - then they start losing games as opposition teams punch holes through their zone and score.

If Narkle etc can’t defend - they aren’t going to be attractive to any Afl teams.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Okay so given that you agree we had the potential to win flags with this list and that Scott is largely to blame for our failure to do so, I take it that you acknowledge then that our recruitment strategy was both the right approach to follow and was executed effectively, as it resulted in us assembling that group with flag-winning potential?

listen mate, stop talking such dribble.. let me speak some truth for such a “mediocre” acceptance person like yourself.

- making top four and prelims are EASY! In fact every coach just needs to recruit a few mature players to do it.
- if you don’t win a flag your a miserable failure, there is no such thing as good coaching unless you win the flag every year.
- we have obviously assembled a Harlem globetrotters like team across the past 15 years that any loser of a coach could just talk to and walk into a top four. The effort is pissweak mate.

bunch of fragile players who are told to hold the ball too long n stuff and if they went fast n stuff n were told to go quicker n stuff we would have 7-8 premierships over the past 15 season and be at an ACCEPTABLE level!!

because I know how to get things done with my excellent levels of knowledge and standards I have

 

[CatAttack84]

so a simple question: name a club who has decided to rebuild and sack its coach after top four finish in the history of modern AFL?? Or label it as failures

Your question is flawed because it assumes because something is not common practice, or has been done before, then it should never be done or considered? You're defining the status quo of repetition which looking back at a decade has achieved zero premierships for the club, which IIRC correctly after 2011 Scott himself had targeted for the end of that decade would be the time to strike with a mostly refreshed list. Those seasons have well passed, and the those more recent are objective failures come finals time.

Geelong has failed to capitalise in the past decade where other clubs managed to find a way to do so...clubs that were not beyond it, and in many cases would be defeated by it.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Finishing top four is not an achievement when you make list decisions to go all out for a premiership, whilst mortgaging the future. It is an expectation. Up until last night we have parred the course by finishing top four with the list make-up we have and the lack of young players we have put time into for the year. We have now double-bogeyed the first hole on the back nine and we have some tricky water hazards to come.

A straight sets exit; no matter how you want to spin it, would be an abject failure. I do though, expect us to come out and crush it next week, because thats what we do and I don't see us without a chance of winning it this year despite Scott and the team's inability to overcome the mental demons that seem to preclude this team from performing at an adequate level when the opportunity for success is within it's grasp.

this once again sums of over the last 15 seasons or so the arrogance and entitlement of supporters regarding geelong and probably a point why a lot of fans just don’t like geelong supporters, they are sulky and entitled people a lot of them.

no geelong is not “ par for course” missing the finals once in 14 seasons of football while churning over an entire list including prelim finals and a grand final appearance, what an entirely arrogant entitled thing to say. We are not the Harlem globetrotters who are expected to just rock up and always be at the top end.

the sustained success we have had at the top of the ladder takes real hard work and exceptional people to make happen every season fronting up. We are not the only ones who trade for players, heaps of clubs do it each season

calrton just went out and got Zac Williams and adams saad… how did that go for them with a crap coach??

continually finishing at the top end of the table takes a lot of hard work dedication and commitment each year, ask anyone who works in the industry with knowledge and they will tell you the same story.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Your question is flawed because it assumes because something is not common practice, or has been done before, then it should never be done or considered? You're defining the status quo of repetition which looking back at a decade has achieved zero premierships for the club, which IIRC correctly after 2011 Scott himself had targeted for the end of that decade would be the time to strike with a mostly refreshed list. Those seasons have well passed, and the those more recent are objective failures come finals time.

Geelong has failed to capitalise in the past decade where other clubs managed to find a way to do so...clubs that were not beyond it, and in many cases would be defeated by it.

there’s a very good reason it’s never been done before, because making top four consistently is a great effort and it takes a lot of things going right, in fact a lot more going right than wrong to get you there in the first place. That’s why you don’t see it happen, because it’s an achievement in itself and shows a lot more is being done right than wrong in the first place.

people just don’t think this way who have a knowledgeable understanding of what actually goes on inside the club.

if this period of sustained success was so easy and attainable, you don’t think coaches who have their balls on the line every year would just do the same thing?? Press the magic trade button and jump up the ladder? It’s obviously a very hard feature to remain at the top for a period of time and takes a lot of quality work to remain there.

to undermine this is just stupidity and shows a lack of understanding of the hard work put in to become a sustained successful club there abouts each season.

 

[maxy87]

Great points - but I do not think that footy nous over defensive mindset is going to win you games.

Dusty is an instinctive football prodigy who cannot defend. The reason they win is because the rest of the team run hard and defend and harass so that he can do his thing. The second the team defensive system breaks down - then they start losing games as opposition teams punch holes through their zone and score.

If Narkle etc can’t defend - they aren’t going to be attractive to any Afl teams.

Absolutely. I’m not diminishing the importance of defence at all. I just think defensive mindset is something that can be developed over time and should be a secondary consideration when deciding on who we draft/trade for. Essentially I think the balance is too far to the defensive attributes over football nous at the moment.

 

[CatAttack84]

ntinually finishing at the top end of the table takes a lot of hard work dedication and commitment each year,

You may find that the more level-headed among us fully acknowledge this, and it is THIS as the driver for our outcry because to think that each season this level of effort and work continually fails at the peak of the season, that being the finals.

Having finally made the GF last season, to be in a position to win it only to squander it...and then somehow not have that as a driving force to a fierce finals campaign this year. e.g. each of the last three flags were triggered by major failings and shortcomings the previous season.
Doesn't seem to have occurred this year. We played our final 3 games at home, the so called fortress (that I have never bought into remember the days when Fitzroy had walloped us there despite being in poor form), and the results showed what was to come.

Yes losses in the backline are huge, but all clubs limp into the finals missing players they'd prefer to have.

 

[CatAttack84]

to undermine this is just stupidity and shows a lack of understanding of the hard work put in to become a sustained successful club there abouts each season.

See my post above, the effort and work is acknowledged. You're making excuses for them continually failing come finals time and it not being addressed. Again, the objective evidence and statistics are there to observe and analyse.

I'd happily be proven wrong and see them raise the cup....but objectively, it's difficult to see how that can manifest this season.

 

[Gazzathegoat]

The sad thing is we were more than capable of winning the flag this year. We needed everything to go our way towards the end of the season but unfortunately, the shocking run of injuries continued. Chris Scott

Chris Scott

Age

49

Ht

182cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.2

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

was banking on the bye week to rest up the older bodies. He sounded very disappointed when the AFL announced the bye was getting scrapped. Our entire team looked incredibly tired and lacked run / effort. Hawkins is barely making it up the ground and his contest work is poor. He's 33 and has played every game this season so I don't blame him. Guthrie and Parfitt have carried a huge midfield load all season and they were due for rest. Boak and Wines were running up and down the ground virtually unchecked all game.

Our 3 prime ball movers are Duncan, Stewart, and Tuohey. We need Stewart and Tuohey bringing the ball out of defence with their fast pace and elite kicking skills. We need Duncan delivering the ball inside 50.

Our forwards look stagnant and provide no presence up the ground to link up with our rebounding defenders. I think we need to roll the dice and play Rata as a 3rd tall as he can at least provide a contest. Our crumbing forwards are never given a chance as our inside 50 ball use is deplorable.

I'm hoping we change things up next week and bring in some pace. E.g. Clark or Holmes.

Ins: Tuohey, Clark/Holmes, Rata
Outs: Dahlhaus, Higgins, Henderson

Blicavs, Henderson, and Kolo are far too slow. We can't afford to have all 3 on the last line of defence.

Things could get very ugly for us against Sydney next week. Young vs Old

Even if we do beat Sydney/GWS, then we will still need to beat either Melbourne or Brisbane in the prelim who are coming in fresh off a bye. That could get very very ugly.

Anyway, let's be positive and back our boys in!! Go cats

 

[Strange Cat]

In your view, has Scott got enough out of the current playing list in finals over the past two years? Could he have won a premiership with this group?

My answer to those questions is "no" and "yes", btw. So imo he's under-performed in finals. Curious to know your view though.

10 years of poor finals performances shows the that the list/club/coaches have Sweet **** all ideas of what to actually do…put it this way if you gave as many Prems and finals appearances to say tigers or swans they would have at least an extra flag or two.

we are a laughing stock when it comes to finals a mere shadow of the legacy of 07-11 which was meant to make the club “great” and even that list underachieved. We have reverted back to pre 07 mentality of accepting medocricity of near enough is good enough.

 

[afl genius]

Play some youth and generate some pace into the side. Complete overhaul of game plan, maybe change of assistants if needed but obviously Scott gone as he refuses to change anything.

List wise, finish up Hendo and play Kruger next year that's an easy swap. Kolo to never play again, worst 100 plus player to play AFL, trade Gutherie, Menegola. Make Blitz a tagger tell him to not even worry about the ball as he is great athlete but has some of the worse skills and no footy nous what so ever. Stanley, Rohan, Dal I'm not sure tbh but don't wont them in the team. Do not trade in 30+ players. Maybe bring I someone with some hardness

 

[STPer18]

Wait to see what happens next week but potentially 2012-2021 Geelong could go down as one of the biggest underachievers with the sheer number of wasted opportunities after top ladder positions over such an extended period of time.

 

[JohnZ]

We've been in a holding pattern for way too long. Just good enough to finish top 4, make a prelim and exit. Time and time again. Need a new voice at the club.