Where We Can Improve

[_RT_]

When posting in another thread on this board I posted a stat about the Swans that I believe had a great deal to do with their success in the last 2-3 years.

In the past 3 years the Swans have had the following happen:
2004 15 players played in 21 or more of their 24 games for that year.
2005 16 players played in 23 or more of their 26 games for that year.
2006 17 players played in 22 or more of their 25 games for the year.

That is 75 games in 3 years and of those they have had 10 of their better player play in most of them week after week Hall Goodes Kirk and O'Keefe have not missed one game in that time. J.Bolton, C.Bolton, Barry, Kennelly, Micky O & L.Ablett have missed between 1-8 games in the 3 years as well. I make it 10 players who would be in the Swans best 15. But it is not just their best 15 that stay on the park it is also guys that are needed for team balance that stay on the park and get a chacne to gain confidence and find form because they also have the big stars on the field with them and are not expected to carry the load from day 1.

Now look at the Tigers last 3 years:
2006: 10 players played in 20 or more of our 22 games
Raines, Hyde, Tivendale, Tuck, Pettifer played 22. Simmonds, J.Bowden, Deledio, Foley & Tambling missed 1 each. Now of those how many would be in our best 15 players. Maybe 6-8, I didn't include PB as he was in his first year.

2005: 10 players played in 20 or more of our 22 games.
Deledio, Tuck, Pettifer, Newman, Simmonds, Richo, JB, Cogs 22 each. Gaspar and Krakouer missed 2 each. Campbell and Graham not counted as they retired and had no impact on 06. Same again how many would have been in the best 15? 7

2004: 7 players played in 20 or more of 22 games. Hall, Hyde, Krakouer, Tivendale played 22. JB missed 1, Chaffey and Brown missed 2 each. Again, how many were best 15 at the club? 2-3 at best.

We just have not been able to get our best players on the park consistently enough to have them gel together as a team like the Swans have. They know what there team mate is going to do when they face different situations they know who kicks how far, who has a good left or right opposite. They are also settled into positions as they play there week in week out. Our side gets shifted from one spot to another each week as different guys get moved to cover for someone else.

Hopefully this year we get a chance to play guys week after week in the same positions so they can settle and find form. Guys like Schulz, Thursfield, Hartigan, Polo, Polak, Meyer, Tambling, Moore, Jackson guys who have potential but have not had the chance to secure a role in the side as they get moved or have been injured are the key to us becoming a good side. If they can get a season under their belts along with our best 15 players playing more games than they miss we have a very good shot at making the 8 but another year of frustrating injuries and well we could be close but not close enough.

*Sorry about the length

 

[sante]

But most of our team isn't anywhere near the the Swans side. We are soooo young...5 years isn't long enough unfortunately.

Cats and Saints have taken 8+ years to develop their young players into stars and are still strugglinh...we are years away

 

[Calcium Man]

I personally believe the biggest area we can improve is our hardness and working hard when we dont have the ball.

Looking at the stats we had the least amount of tackles for season 2006 and 2005. And it was this lack of pressure that showed up in the match against Geelong.

We were 16th for clearances last year and 14th the year before. Hopefully foley can change this.

We were also 16th for 1%ers last year and 15th in 2005.

It's these sorts of stats that show our work off the ball isnt up to scratch and watching us play we are one of the softest teams in the comp. It always seems opposition teams have so much time over the ball when we play them where as we seem to be consistently under pressure.

 

[_RT_]

But most of our team isn't anywhere near the the Swans side. We are soooo young...5 years isn't long enough unfortunately.

Cats and Saints have taken 8+ years to develop their young players into stars and are still strugglinh...we are years away

I am not suggesting we will improve to that degree but more suggesting that if we were able to get most of our best 15 players on the park week after week we might have some sort of chance of seeing the improvement we need. No surprise that Petts went from a kid who averaged 12 possies, 3 marks & 0.5 goals a game in 2004 to a player who averaged 17 possies 8 marks and 1.4 goals a game in 2006 after playing 44 consecutive games in 2 years.

Now if we could get Schulz, Tambling, Hartigan, Thursfield, Polo, Foley Howat, McGuane, Pattison, Polak & Meyer to play the same sort of games as Petts has we might see the same sort of improvement in them that we saw in Petts. Thats 11 kids(I still count Polak as a kid at 22) who have been at the club for 1-3 years who could step up in the next 2 years and take the club forward and replace guys like Hall, Tivendale, Gaspar & Knobel who are not going to take the Tigers to a flag. Not to mention the impact the kids we drafted this year could have as well over the same period of time. IMO I think there are about 8 players on final chances this year, they have been at the club for a few years now and through 1 thing or another have not been able to produce the goods.

 

[sante]

I agree with you both.


Just saying we are way off the mark IMO. Our blokes always seem to develop longer than other teams to.

Sherman dominates at the Lions
McLean
Pearce
Surjan
Jones (DEES)

I could name a million, none from us...Why?

 

[lids2004roar]

We were 16th for clearances last year and 14th the year before. Hopefully foley can change this.

So Foley steps up... he won't improve on what we had when Cogs was there. Foley and Tuck are not the best combination of ball winners in the comp, we desperately need the class of Tambling, Deledio, Connors, Edwards and even Oakley-Nicholls.

The problem with our current midfield is they can't win the ball (last in clearances) and when they do - they can't kick.

Talk about frustrating, maybe we are better off not getting first use of the ball..

 

[PLSC]

I personally believe the biggest area we can improve is our hardness and working hard when we dont have the ball.

Looking at the stats we had the least amount of tackles for season 2006 and 2005. And it was this lack of pressure that showed up in the match against Geelong.

We were 16th for clearances last year and 14th the year before. Hopefully foley can change this.

We were also 16th for 1%ers last year and 15th in 2005.

It's these sorts of stats that show our work off the ball isnt up to scratch and watching us play we are one of the softest teams in the comp. It always seems opposition teams have so much time over the ball when we play them where as we seem to be consistently under pressure.

wallace has no idea when it comes to defence

i laughed everytime last season the opposition would have the ball and instead of pressuring the ball carrier it was all about getting numbers back and filling space, only for them to find a free man inside 50 always

i hate sydney for the fact they have had an easy run with injurys, thats why i respect the eagles more who have been cut down by judd and cox all missing games but they still win

 

[PLSC]

So Foley steps up... he won't improve on what we had when Cogs was there. Foley and Tuck are not the best combination of ball winners in the comp, we desperately need the class of Tambling, Deledio, Connors, Edwards and even Oakley-Nicholls.

The problem with our current midfield is they can't win the ball (last in clearances) and when they do - they can't kick.

Talk about frustrating, maybe we are better off not getting first use of the ball..

its called inside mids or lack there of

we have none of them who can win the ball and then use it

tuck - can win it but my mum kicks better
deledio - cant win it but is the most damaging by a mile

its all about balance and we dont have it yet

 

[Calcium Man]

I agree with you both.


Just saying we are way off the mark IMO. Our blokes always seem to develop longer than other teams to.

Sherman dominates at the Lions
McLean
Pearce
Surjan
Jones (DEES)

I could name a million, none from us...Why?

Well thet last 3 drafts could come down to the types of players we have drafted. Really apart from deledio not one was ready for AFL straight away and most are always gonna take 3 or 4 pre season because they are so skinny and raw. Mclean, Sherman and jones certainly came with bodies ready for AFL. Havent seen enough of Surjan and Pearce is a bit of a freak.

 

[Paddles]

We can improve only if we have at least one player in every line stand up.

So, for example, Gaspar has been hopeless for years, injuiries notwithstanding. If he can improve and be at least servicable, that would be good.

If Polak has a good year then that would be an improvement on whatever set up we used to have across half back.

The centre line needs to work harder both back and fwd.

We need someone, say Schultz to improve across half fwd

And Krak or Kingsley to kick 25-30 goals.

Then we need our on ballers to have a real go. If Knobel can improve (and heres the problem)

Or Tuck? Or Johnno?

See, now we get into trouble.

And this improvement depends on players not slipping back. so, Lids and Foley and Petts need to put in like last year.

If they slip it counterbalances any improvement the others might make.

It doesn't look too good, really.

 

[SolidTiger]

As far as structure, Richmond needs to improve mainly in defence and forward line as far as talls go.
Richmonds defence is already pretty thin, Gasper is in his last year or two and have no one to replace him. Sure we aquired Polak, but he is effectively more a replacement for Kellaway rather than Gasper.
It is a similar story with Richo except it is harder to predict how much footy he has left in him. He may last for another two years, or he can last for five years. But when he does retire, there is going to be a massive hole to fill in Richmonds forward line.
Richmonds midfield may not be tough when they don't have the ball, but the ones that are not that tough are kids and as they mature that will rectify itself.

 

[Calcium Man]

So Foley steps up... he won't improve on what we had when Cogs was there. Foley and Tuck are not the best combination of ball winners in the comp, we desperately need the class of Tambling, Deledio, Connors, Edwards and even Oakley-Nicholls.

The problem with our current midfield is they can't win the ball (last in clearances) and when they do - they can't kick.

Talk about frustrating, maybe we are better off not getting first use of the ball..

Cogs was on one leg in 2005 and was really only just starting to get back to full fitness when he did his knee. I do think that Foley will give us some improvement in the middle. But otherwise i agree these other kids, especially Tambling, polo and Deledio need to step it up in that area. I really wanna see edwards play too, they keep talking about his ability to tackle and i hope he gets a go.

deledio - cant win it but is the most damaging by a mile

Deledio is very good around stoppages but he cannot do it himself. And he cannot do it when he plays half back, half forward, full forward then midfield. Please give him one spot.

 

[santa claws]

When posting in another thread on this board I posted a stat about the Swans that I believe had a great deal to do with their success in the last 2-3 years.

In the past 3 years the Swans have had the following happen:
2004 15 players played in 21 or more of their 24 games for that year.
2005 16 players played in 23 or more of their 26 games for that year.
2006 17 players played in 22 or more of their 25 games for the year.

That is 75 games in 3 years and of those they have had 10 of their better player play in most of them week after week Hall Goodes Kirk and O'Keefe have not missed one game in that time. J.Bolton, C.Bolton, Barry, Kennelly, Micky O & L.Ablett have missed between 1-8 games in the 3 years as well. I make it 10 players who would be in the Swans best 15. But it is not just their best 15 that stay on the park it is also guys that are needed for team balance that stay on the park and get a chacne to gain confidence and find form because they also have the big stars on the field with them and are not expected to carry the load from day 1.

Now look at the Tigers last 3 years:
2006: 10 players played in 20 or more of our 22 games
Raines, Hyde, Tivendale, Tuck, Pettifer played 22. Simmonds, J.Bowden, Deledio, Foley & Tambling missed 1 each. Now of those how many would be in our best 15 players. Maybe 6-8, I didn't include PB as he was in his first year.

2005: 10 players played in 20 or more of our 22 games.
Deledio, Tuck, Pettifer, Newman, Simmonds, Richo, JB, Cogs 22 each. Gaspar and Krakouer missed 2 each. Campbell and Graham not counted as they retired and had no impact on 06. Same again how many would have been in the best 15? 7

2004: 7 players played in 20 or more of 22 games. Hall, Hyde, Krakouer, Tivendale played 22. JB missed 1, Chaffey and Brown missed 2 each. Again, how many were best 15 at the club? 2-3 at best.

We just have not been able to get our best players on the park consistently enough to have them gel together as a team like the Swans have. They know what there team mate is going to do when they face different situations they know who kicks how far, who has a good left or right opposite. They are also settled into positions as they play there week in week out. Our side gets shifted from one spot to another each week as different guys get moved to cover for someone else.

Hopefully this year we get a chance to play guys week after week in the same positions so they can settle and find form. Guys like Schulz, Thursfield, Hartigan, Polo, Polak, Meyer, Tambling, Moore, Jackson guys who have potential but have not had the chance to secure a role in the side as they get moved or have been injured are the key to us becoming a good side. If they can get a season under their belts along with our best 15 players playing more games than they miss we have a very good shot at making the 8 but another year of frustrating injuries and well we could be close but not close enough.

*Sorry about the length

the plain and simple facts are the vast majority of senior players are not good enough.its hard to play blokes week in week out who need to be replaced. the draft system is basically a system of turning players over until you find someone who is good enough. when we find enough players who are good enough we will become settled like the swans.

 

[_RT_]

One guy that should help with our clearances is Howat 5 games last year averaged 2.8 clearances along with Foley 2.8. Another pre season under their belts and from the talk so far they have been by far our best clearance duo. Add Tuck 3.1 and an improved effort by Tambling who had 1.7 despite spending most time as a HFF/Wing and things are looking a little better on that front as well. The worrying thing though wsa Simmonds was our leading clearance player last year at 3.4, these are the figures that the smaller blokes should be getting. We only had 2 players(Simmo & Tuck) inside the Top 50 for the AFL last year same with first possessions(Tuck & Cogs). Compare that to WCE who had 3 in the top 12 clearances and top 30 in FP. We can definitely improve on those hard ball areas this year.

This one stats sums it up better than just about anything else. Our leading tackler last year was Tivendale with 4.3 per game ranked 46th in the AFL. We just need to harden the hell up.

 

[Calcium Man]

Richmonds midfield may not be tough when they don't have the ball, but the ones that are not that tough are kids and as they mature that will rectify itself.

I hope it recitfies itself but we have been a soft team for a long time. But i would disagree that its the young kids fault as Tambling, polo, white, Foley and meyer were were in the top 10 tackles per game.

 

[_RT_]

the plain and simple facts are the vast majority of senior players are not good enough.its hard to play blokes week in week out who need to be replaced. the draft system is basically a system of turning players over until you find someone who is good enough. when we find enough players who are good enough we will become settled like the swans.

Seems most of us posting in this thread are pretty clued up about the club and what needs to happen for us to get better. So I ask:

Who would you say on the list is on their last chance heading into the year and needs to really step up? Of those you name who do you hope actually does and hangs around?

 

[banzai]

I agree with you both.


Just saying we are way off the mark IMO. Our blokes always seem to develop longer than other teams to.

Sherman dominates at the Lions
McLean
Pearce
Surjan
Jones (DEES)

I could name a million, none from us...Why?

I think it has to do with the players they have playing around them. Put Lids in a better side and he would be awesome, at Richmond he copped the most attention of any playey in just his second year. When the Lions kids went up against ours last year look what happened. Hawthorn were the only team below us to beat us last year, the only teams that play a stack of kids are the ones at the bottom, we pretty much beat them all. Unfortunetly we might have to wait until Lids, Raines, Polo etc are the more senior players in our team and they can make the new young kids we pick up look good.

 

[_RT_]

I think it has to do with the players they have playing around them. Put Lids in a better side and he would be awesome, at Richmond he copped the most attention of any playey in just his second year. When the Lions kids went up against ours last year look what happened. Hawthorn were the only team below us to beat us last year, the only teams that play a stack of kids are the ones at the bottom, we pretty much beat them all. Unfortunetly we might have to wait until Lids, Raines, Polo etc are the more senior players in our team and they can make the new young kids we pick up look good.

Exactly put those guys named earlier in our side and I bet their performances drop off a little as they don't have the same quality around them.

 

[RECORDS!]

Tackling, tackling, tackling, tackling. Could they please start tackling properly. Our defensive pressure is the worst in the comp by a mile. That is why teams look so skillful playing us then crap the next week. They think they are at training when playing us

 

[Calcium Man]

Seems most of us posting in this thread are pretty clued up about the club and what needs to happen for us to get better. So I ask:

Who would you say on the list is on their last chance heading into the year and needs to really step up? Of those you name who do you hope actually does and hangs around?

Start with the obvious one

Jackson - Cannot see him making it. Would love for him to make it tho cos his mongrel and toughness would be ideal at our club
Gasper- Must be on thin ice. Has thursfield and Mcguane gunning for his place would have to have an outstanding year to remain a tiger.
Hartigan - Dose not have the footy smarts to make it. To much like rodan was would get the ball and run in circles.
Krakouer- Been on the list for ages and occasionally showed us what he can do. Its time to find consistency

Less obvious now

Hall- Is a bit of a fix it man. Plays where we need him. Its this utility ability that could see him hold his place
Moore- I really hope he makes it because i feel he is very good match up for us. Needs to remain injury free and string games together
Hyde - Dont know how many people will agree but i dont think he does enough to justify his position. I love his courage, just wish we could get more out him.

 

[Paddles]

good players always look like they have more time than the also ran type players. This is because they don't freak out under pressure.

Our guys can't handle pressure and cough it up straightaway.

Our kicking for goal is the same. Pressure pressure pressure.

We need players who perform under pressure.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

*Sorry about the length

I bet that's what you say to all the girls

BTW great post, RL.

 

[santa claws]

Seems most of us posting in this thread are pretty clued up about the club and what needs to happen for us to get better. So I ask:

Who would you say on the list is on their last chance heading into the year and needs to really step up? Of those you name who do you hope actually does and hangs around?

okay the obvious ones. gaspar hall tivendale krakouer moore jackson and knobel. the not so obvious ones polak kingsley schulz hartigan hyde p bowden and pettifer. theres a few others but their age and time in the system means i would rather hold of.

of those i would like to see go on and become good players.polak schulz geez if these 2 could become good solid players at chf chb it would solve a lot of problems.both have deficiencies that i just cant see them getting around. hyde his work ethic is great and if a plyer deserved to keep his spot for putting in it would be hyde. jackson i have seen some really good glimpses in this kid.as for the rest they are holding us back

 

[sante]

Who would you say on the list is on their last chance heading into the year and needs to really step up? Of those you name who do you hope actually does and hangs around?

Jackson: GONE, To me he hasn't improved at all since his debut in matches

Hartigan: Has to do something, I would love to see him make it 'cause I think we need his grunt around the middle/backline

Moore: Another who is on last chance, could be a handy player which will be hard for the opposition to match up on but he just doesn't get the gametime to play a consistent game

Gaspar: I think he and everyone knows its 2007 and thats it, not much else to say

Hall: Seems as though injuries may finish him off, he won't be there for the start and by the time he's ready we probably won't have a spot for him, might be there in -08 'cause we need the talls

Hyde: In the pre-season it seemed as though his OP would ruin his '07 with the younger crop overtaking him with bigger upsides but I think he is fine...he's tough at it and we need it at Richmond

White: Needs to kick out Newman/Raines from BP and make it his own

Knobel: Utter crap...gone at seasons end with Patto overtaking him

McGuane: Seems to be giving it his all in the Regional matches, hopefully he makes it, could be a handy defender

Krak: Showed something against Geelong, very important year for him


IMO, a lot of our players seem to burn the track but don't put it into matches.

 

[Bentleigh]

I agree with you both.


Just saying we are way off the mark IMO. Our blokes always seem to develop longer than other teams to.

Sherman dominates at the Lions
McLean
Pearce
Surjan
Jones (DEES)

I could name a million, none from us...Why?

You are a very poor poster.