Who won the Burgoyne Trade?

[Kyusss]

Who do you believe won the Burgoyne Trade in the end?

 

[Hodgepodge]

Port Adelaide won the trade, no doubt about it.

Hawthorn can afford a 'loss' though, or at least they think they can. They traded away above market value to try and have another tilt at a premiership in the next 5 years.

 

[Donakebab]

Seriously, why do people persist with questions like these when they can't be answered yet?

 

[Damon_3388]

Bit early to tell isn't it, considering that both Shaun Burgoyne and Andrew Moore (player who was selected with the #9 pick that was traded by Hawthorn) are yet to play a game for Hawthorn or Port Adelaide? Obviously Burgoyne is the better player right now than Moore, but we'll have to wait a few years to see which club got the most out of their respective players.

Although I assume you're focusing specifically on the Hawthorn/Port Adelaide aspect, overall, it ended up being a bit more complex trade than just a straight player-for-pick swap:

Port Adelaide received

• Jay Nash
• Pick #9 (Andrew Moore)
• Pick #16 (Jasper McMillan-Pittard)
• Pick #97 (Unused)

Hawthorn received

• Shaun Burgoyne
• Pick #58 (Rhan Hooper)

Essendon received

• Mark Williams
• Pick #24 (Jake Carlisle)
• Pick #33 (Anthony Long)
• Pick #89 (somehow ended up with Richmond, and they used it to upgrade rookie Robin Nahas)

Geelong received

• Pick #40 (Allen Christensen)
• Pick #42 (Nathan Vardy)
• Pick #56 (Josh Cowan)

Looking at it straight off though, Port Adelaide got some good value in terms of young players with potential in return for Burgoyne, as did Geelong. Whether they reach that potential and prove to be valueable is another thing, and entirely remains to be seen.

 

[Kyusss]

Seriously, why do people persist with questions like these when they can't be answered yet?

seriously why do people cry so hard on the internet

have a stab at it mate

 

[Kyusss]

Port Adelaide won the trade, no doubt about it.

Hawthorn can afford a 'loss' though, or at least they think they can. They traded away above market value to try and have another tilt at a premiership in the next 5 years.

HodgePodge one of the more sensible posters on Bigfooty
That reply is exactly right Port got the better deal but the hawks may have a key piece of their 2010 Puzzle

Btw Keep up the good work on Bay13 , nothing funnier than geeing up Carltank supporters

 

[Donakebab]

seriously why do people cry so hard on the internet

have a stab at it mate

Cry? lol


Port Adelaide haven't 'won' the trade until Nash and their picks actually show something on the field. Both Burgoyne and Williams are proven quality players so in the short term you would have to say that Hawthorn and Essendon 'won' the trade in the short term. As for the long term, everything is speculation, high draft picks mean shit until they do something.

 

[Hawk Dork]

If we judge it based on potential to win a flag now,the Hawks won.
If you judge it in 5 years based on who Port got for him,maybe Port will win.
In 10 years time if they dont win a Premiership with the 2 they got playing a key role and we win a few with Junior Burger maybe we won.
If JB plays enough games has a few sons and the turn out to be champions we win again.
If JB becomes a mentor for young indigenous kids at the Hawks
A coach,a recruitment scout
Their are a million ways of getting value from a trade and it can only be judged in time.

 

[WatWouldCyrilDo]

Bit early to tell isn't it, considering that both Shaun Burgoyne and Andrew Moore (player who was selected with the #9 pick that was traded by Hawthorn) are yet to play a game for Hawthorn or Port Adelaide? Obviously Burgoyne is the better player right now than Moore, but we'll have to wait a few years to see which club got the most out of their respective players.

Although I assume you're focusing specifically on the Hawthorn/Port Adelaide aspect, overall, it ended up being a bit more complex trade than just a straight player-for-pick swap:

Port Adelaide received

• Jay Nash
• Pick #9 (Andrew Moore)
• Pick #16 (Jasper McMillan-Pittard)
• Pick #97 (Unused)

Hawthorn received

• Shaun Burgoyne

Essendon received

• Mark Williams
• Pick #24 (Jake Carlisle)
• Pick #33 (Anthony Long)

Geelong received

• Pick #40 (Allen Christensen)
• Pick #42 (Nathan Vardy)
• Pick #56 (Josh Cowan)

Looking at it straight off though, Port Adelaide got some good value in terms of young players with potential in return for Burgoyne, as did Geelong. Whether they reach that potential and prove to be valueable is another thing, and entirely remains to be seen.

Hawthorn also received pick #58 (Rhan Hooper)

Makes it look better from our p.o.v

 

[Damon_3388]

Hawthorn also received pick #58 (Rhan Hooper)

Makes it look better from our p.o.v

Ah right, it was listed in a few lines below the grouped part in the information I looked up. I'll rectify that in my above post.

Apparently it was an exchange with Essendon of pick #58 for pick #89, yet pick #89 somehow ended up with Richmond (they used it as their rookie uprade pick for Robin Nahas) without an official trade being announced Not a big deal, but I'm just not sure how that happened, particularly as Essendon never ended up having a pick after #33 (Anthony Long) and didn't 'pass' during the draft (which would have excluded them from further picks and bumped following picks up the order). Maybe because Essendon weren't upgrading any rookies the picks late on were left to other clubs

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

seriously why do people cry so hard on the internet

have a stab at it mate

Seriously, why do people feel the need to analyse a draft just days after, and try to decipher who did the best. It's stupidity at it's greatest.

A Richmond supporter with the 2004 draft fresh in their mind should know better. Pattison, Meyers, Polo and who ever else were part of the 'fab 5' that Richmond supporters lost their mind over say hi.

 

[Kyusss]

Seriously, why do people feel the need to analyse a draft just days after, and try to decipher who did the best. It's stupidity at it's greatest.

A Richmond supporter with the 2004 draft fresh in their mind should know better. Pattison, Meyers, Polo and who ever else were part of the 'fab 5' that Richmond supporters lost their mind over say hi.

oh yeah good point

oh wait no it wasnt

9-1 im guessing ur upset

"A Richmond supporter with the 2004 draft fresh in their mind should know better. Pattison, Meyers, Polo and who ever else were part of the 'fab 5' that Richmond supporters lost their mind over say hi"

Ah if you could also pass on my Hello that would be great?

has anyone else said hello to me?

in the meanwhile im gonna go look for these richmond supporters that ah "LOST THEIR MINDS" over polo pattison and meyer(i guess you mean)
I noticed you failed to mention our last 2 best and fairest winner and Tambling who silenced a few critics

Anyway back to the point

Port win long term
Hawks very short term

 

[HFF]

Hawthorn the big winners IMO.

All it cost them was their first pick and Mark Williams, who IMO was no longer in their best 22. Rhan Hooper can replace him as Williams never offered defensive pressure or goal-crumbing ability anyway. He was and always will be an undersized key position player.

Sure, Port managed to get picks 9 and 16 which will hold them in good stead for the future but Hawks win out big time.

They gain an AA quality midfielder with line-breaking and clearance ability still in the early stages of his prime in a young team who have already won 1 premiership and are about to assault for a few more.

It remains to be seen if pick 9 Andrew Moore or pick 16 JMP can ever reach the heights of a Shaun Burgoyne.

Not to mention the weak nature of the draft.

 

[Axel.]

Port Adelaide received

• Jay Nash
• Pick #9 (Andrew Moore)
• Pick #16 (Jasper McMillan-Pittard)
• Pick #97 (Unused)

Hawthorn received

• Shaun Burgoyne
• Pick #58 (Rhan Hooper)

Essendon received

• Mark Williams
• Pick #24 (Jake Carlisle)
• Pick #33 (Anthony Long)
• Pick #89 (somehow ended up with Richmond, and they used it to upgrade rookie Robin Nahas)

Geelong received

• Pick #40 (Allen Christensen)
• Pick #42 (Nathan Vardy)
• Pick #56 (Josh Cowan)

Seems everyone won. They all got what they needed.

 

[wavefall21]

Port hands down, they have won in the short term and long term, I can't see Burgoyne ever getting back to the form that made him a star, he's injury proned and has slowed down a lot, he might be good for a year if he gets back fit but I don't think he will make a big enough difference to win the Hawks a flag, time will tell

 

[Schulzenfest]

Both teams are in a better position now than they were before the trade considering the states of their respective lists.

 

[Selective Retention]

A Richmond supporter with the 2004 draft fresh in their mind should know better. Pattison, Meyers, Polo and who ever else were part of the 'fab 5' that Richmond supporters lost their mind over say hi.

This was going to be my point, two first rounders might look good on paper for a 26 year old with an injury question mark but that was the exact same situation with the Ottens trade. 5 years on and both the players Richmond took have been delisted from their list and Ottens has contributed to two flags and has a couple more seasons left in him.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

9-1 im guessing ur upset

"A Richmond supporter with the 2004 draft fresh in their mind should know better. Pattison, Meyers, Polo and who ever else were part of the 'fab 5' that Richmond supporters lost their mind over say hi"

in the meanwhile im gonna go look for these richmond supporters that ah "LOST THEIR MINDS" over polo pattison and meyer(i guess you mean)
I noticed you failed to mention our last 2 best and fairest winner and Tambling who silenced a few critics

Anyway back to the point

Port win long term
Hawks very short term

For starters I haven't voted in your premature poll so I can't even see who's winning it.
I found it stupid enough just reading it, without selecting an option.

Secondly, if you had of read my post a bit more thouroughly you'd realise that 2 out 5 draft picks coming good is exactly my point.

Thirdly.

This was going to be my point, two first rounders might look good on paper for a 26 year old with an injury question mark but that was the exact same situation with the Ottens trade. 5 years on and both the players Richmond took have been delisted from their list and Ottens has contributed to two flags and has a couple more seasons left in him.

There's some more evidence for you, and once again Richmond are involved.

Yet, you chose to think that you know exactly how it's going to pan out because the draft picks now have a name associated to them.
If only AFL careers were that easy.

 

[Power King]

Hopefully it's win-win.

I expect SB to dominate for the hawks and help them become contenders again.

I would like to think that at least one of our first round picks becomes a gun.

Having said this, we could've lost SB for nothing, and so getting two first round picks in return is definitely something decent.

I'm not sure if our ability to develop players counts in this discussion, or if getting the picks alone should be it.

 

[WatWouldCyrilDo]

Port hands down, they have won in the short term and long term, I can't see Burgoyne ever getting back to the form that made him a star, he's injury proned and has slowed down a lot, he might be good for a year if he gets back fit but I don't think he will make a big enough difference to win the Hawks a flag, time will tell

Shaun Burgoyne:
2003 - 25 Games
2004 - 25 Games
2005 - 15 Games - injured
2006 - 22 Games
2007 - 25 Games
2008 - 19 Games - suspended for 3 games
2009 - 9 Games - injured.

So he has played every game possible for 5 out of 7 seasons.

How exactly is he injury prone?

And what exactly tells you he has slowed down a lot? The 9 games he played this year coming back from injury?

People hear this crap from everyone else and take it as gospel. He definately is not injury prone and the prognosis on his knee is that it will be back to 100%.

 

[hawks_time]

People hear this crap from everyone else and take it as gospel. He definately is not injury prone and the prognosis on his knee is that it will be back to 100%.

It's like this for almost everything on Bigfooty. Almost like a Chinese whispers game where the further down the line you go the worse their hearing gets and the louder their voices go.

 

[carntheroos4eva]

Hawthorn the big winners IMO.

All it cost them was their first pick and Mark Williams, who IMO was no longer in their best 22. Rhan Hooper can replace him as Williams never offered defensive pressure or goal-crumbing ability anyway. He was and always will be an undersized key position player.

Sure, Port managed to get picks 9 and 16 which will hold them in good stead for the future but Hawks win out big time.

They gain an AA quality midfielder with line-breaking and clearance ability still in the early stages of his prime in a young team who have already won 1 premiership and are about to assault for a few more.

It remains to be seen if pick 9 Andrew Moore or pick 16 JMP can ever reach the heights of a Shaun Burgoyne.

Not to mention the weak nature of the draft.

This is who I agree with.
Port Adelaide have gone young which is great but they have a shit coach who really needed to be replaced at the end of the 2009 season.

 

[Schulzenfest]

It's funny. Before the trade Hawthorn supporters insisted that Burgoyne was a 36 year old who needs a walking stick and Port supporters insisted he'd be fine. After the trade, Port supporters insist that he's a 45 year old who had both his legs amputated and Hawthorn supporters insist that he'll be fine.

 

[halfback dasher]

It's funny. Before the trade Hawthorn supporters insisted that Burgoyne was a 36 year old who needs a walking stick and Port supporters insisted he'd be fine. After the trade, Port supporters insist that he's a 45 year old who had both his legs amputated and Hawthorn supporters insist that he'll be fine.

lol...oh so true....

 

[mess]

Essendon. Basically got Willo for free.