Why is abortion a live issue in Australian politics again?

[Cmarsh]

How would you feel if you were told certain healthcare isn't available to you?

That situation isn't healthcare.

 

[ElectricG]

This is why I don't entertain where do you draw the line questions

Because you can’t answer them but are happy to spew your BS all over people who can.

 

[Cmarsh]

You want intimate knowledge about something deeply personal to a woman.
That makes you creepy, unless your so called ‘medical qualifications’ have some bearing on that information in your field and job.
We question people’s beliefs on a huge range of topics, subjects and issues around here yes…..
If someone wants to share deeper personal information, that’s their choice.
Do you understand the difference here?
What has a woman’s personal choice what to do with her bodily autonomy have to do with you?
You keep avoiding that, and what area do you work in in the medical community?

If someone made a choice in that scenario to terminate then that is a highly disturbing way to express their bodily autonomy. It really has nothing to do with healthcare. Nothing wrong with questioning that and it doesnt become a sacred cow of not questioning their choices like you so want it to be. I think you use language like "deeply personal" so you convinantly remain sitting on the fence.

 

[Gralin]

Because you can’t answer them but are happy to spew your BS all over people who can.

Because you create scenarios to get the answers you want

 

[Gough]

That situation isn't healthcare.

Sure it is, if a women doesn't want a baby and there are medical options that are available to her in that situation it's only ideology that's preventing her from accessing them.

 

[ElectricG]

Because you create scenarios to get the answers you want

“When do you think an abortion becomes unacceptable?” is not some entrapment or spurious hypothetical. It’s just me asking well then where do you stand on the issue?

Anyhow, your refusal to answer basically tells me everything I need to know so let’s just leave it there huh.

 

[Cmarsh]

Sure it is, if a women doesn't want a baby and there are medical options that are to her in that situation it's only ideology that's preventing her from accessing them.

You are not going to find a reputable healthcare provider in this country who provides terminations for the sole purpose of sex selection. I would say if one believes that termination should be provided just for that reason then that is very ideologically driven.

 

[Gough]

You are not going to find a reputable healthcare provider in this country who provides terminations for the sole purpose of sex selection. I would say if one believes that termination should be provided just for that reason then that is very ideologically driven.

I don't think it's the best reason in the world either but at the same time if that's what a person wants who are we to deny them that?

 

[Cmarsh]

I don't think it's the best reason in the world either but at the same time if that's what a person wants who are we to deny them that?

Well, there is also the consideration of allocation of health care resources. If you insist that this is a legitimate reason for termination, then allocating resources to perform that termination should be absolute bottom of the priority list.

 

[Gough]

“When do you think an abortion becomes unacceptable?” is not some entrapment or spurious hypothetical. It’s just me asking well then where do you stand on the issue?

Anyhow, your refusal to answer basically tells me everything I need to know so let’s just leave it there huh.

Why do you think your values should influence a woman's right to healthcare?

 

[Gough]

Well, there is also the consideration of allocation of health care resources. If you insist that this is a legitimate reason for termination, then allocating resources to perform that termination should be absolute bottom of the priority list.

A women has a knee trembler on a big night out, falls pregnant and isn't in a position to have that child, what's going to cost treasury more? An abortion or forcing her to go full term and then be reliant on welfare to at least initially raise the child?

 

[Cmarsh]

A women has a knee trembler on a big night out, falls pregnant and isn't in a position to have that child, what's going to cost treasury more? An abortion or forcing her to go full term and then be reliant on welfare to at least initially raise the child?

Well you have moved on to another scenario to one about cost. I mean, even wanted pregnancies are a huge cost to the taxpayer. Family Tax benefit, childcare subsidies, medicare costs etc. You also have a potential win to treasury as they are another consumer to fuel economic growth, and a future taxpayer. a new human isn't necessarily a net loss to the treasury.

 

[Gough]

Well you have moved on to another scenario to one about cost. I mean, even wanted pregnancies are a huge cost to the taxpayer. Family Tax benefit, childcare subsidies, medicare costs etc. You also have a potential win to treasury as they are another consumer to fuel economic growth, and a future taxpayer. a new human isn't necessarily a net loss to the treasury.

You brought the economics of it up when you talked about the allocation of healthcare resources.

 

[ElectricG]

Why do you think your values should influence a woman's right to healthcare?

God you lot say the dumbest shit.

Because the ending the life of an unborn baby who can respond and try to get away from pain, cry out for its mother, and be calmed by physical affection is a big deal.

It shouldn’t be done without a good reason.

 

[Gough]

God you lot say the dumbest shit.

Because the ending the life of an unborn baby who can respond and try to get away from pain, cry out for its mother, and be calmed by physical affection is a big deal.

It shouldn’t be done without a good reason.

Most aborted fetuses are about as sentient as your morning dump.

 

[ElectricG]

Most aborted fetuses are about as sentient as your morning dump.

Given that the last two pages of this chat are about late term abortions how about we stick with that hey?

 

[Gough]

Given that the last two pages of this chat are about late term abortions how about we stick with that hey?

You've been able to find one example of that thus far, perhaps we should stick with the reality of the majority of people's experience.

 

[ElectricG]

You've been able to find one example of that thus far, perhaps we should stick with the reality of the majority of people's experience.

Not this line of garbage again. Yes, there are safeguards in place that would prevent a woman getting an abortion at 32 weeks because she had a change of heart. So I am not going to come up with a lot of examples of that happening am I?

You seem to have expressed a view here that those safeguards should be removed.

 

[Gough]

Not this line of garbage again. Yes, there are safeguards in place that would prevent a woman getting an abortion at 32 weeks because she had a change of heart. So I am not going to come up with a lot of examples of that happening am I?

You seem to have expressed a view here that those safeguards should be removed.

I support abortion where it's safe.

 

[ElectricG]

I support abortion where it's safe.

And what does that mean?

 

[Gough]

And what does that mean?

I've made it very clear where I stand on abortion, on the the other hand you aren't so keen to explain why you think that you should be able to tell women what they can and can't do with their bodies.

 

[ElectricG]

I've made it very clear where I stand on abortion, on the the other hand you aren't so keen to explain why you think that you should be able to tell women what they can and can't do with their bodies.

Here’s my explanation: I have no specific interest in telling women what to do with their bodies. I also acknowledge during pregnancy there is another body involved: an unborn child who innately wants to live (moreso as the pregnancy progresses).

Okay back onto you.

Person A wants an abortion at 34 weeks because a recent scan has determined that the baby will be severely disabled and have extremely poor quality of life.

Person B noticed at 34 weeks that the pregnancy was starting to give her stretch marks. She originally wanted the baby but now wants it terminated to stop it getting worse.

Do you think both should go ahead? Are these cases morally equivalent to you? Is there even a moral question for you? Is it your place to judge?

Above are the questions. The question is NOT whether or not it would happen. Answer the written questions.

 

[Gough]

Here’s my explanation: I have no specific interest in telling women what to do with their bodies. I also acknowledge during pregnancy there is another body involved: an unborn child who innately wants to live (moreso as the pregnancy progresses).

Okay back onto you.

Person A wants an abortion at 34 weeks because a recent scan has determined that the baby will be severely disabled and have extremely poor quality of life.

Person B noticed at 34 weeks that the pregnancy was starting to give her stretch marks. She originally wanted the baby but now wants it terminated to stop it getting worse.

Do you think both should go ahead? Are these cases morally equivalent to you? Is there even a moral question for you? Is it your place to judge?

Above are the questions. The question is NOT whether or not it would happen. Answer the written questions.

Has this actually happened?

 

[ElectricG]

Has this actually happened?

It can’t happen at the moment because two doctors would need to sign it off.

Answer the questions. Or are you another one who can’t?

 

[Gough]

It can’t happen at the moment because two doctors would need to sign it off.

Answer the questions. Or are you another one who can’t?

If it can't happen then what are you so worried about.