Williams Experiment Failing

[Beasley]

After yesterdays game I again wonder whether it is a good idea to allow a novice player to play senior footy in a key position to gain experience.

Yep, I know we dont have many big players and the best way to learn is to play in the AFL however Tom has only shown a couple of glimpses of his perceived potential this year and he again looked completely lost when the ball was in the air and simply let his opponent get easy possessions.

I hope we aren't going to shatter this guys confidence when he really should be playing at Willy and learning the craft at a lower level and building his skills and experience.

 

[cosmicr]

I know he comes from a rugby background and all that, but I dont agree with him 'learning the game'. By the time someone reaches the elite level of football (ie the AFL) they should *know* how to play the game. What they then have to learn is how to play under the immense pressure of the AFL - that is on field pressure, huge crowds, media expectation, etc.

BUT IMO Tom isnt up to the 'elite' level, and yes he is still learning how to play smartly. I agree whole heartedly he's not up to it, he simply doesnt have the footy brain for AFL.

 

[The Boy From Brasil]

He wasn't great yesterday, and the way he uses his body in marking contests needs some work, but he has only played 31 games so far. He has been on our list a fair while so people forget how few games he has played.

His upside is massive if we can develop him into a good player who can hold down the CHB position. Yes, he is learning on the job a bit and will make mistakes, but I am prepared to take that risk in the pursuit of developing KPP's. IMO he is a better long term option than continually playing undersized players in that key position.

 

[SPower]

He wasn't great yesterday, and the way he uses his body in marking contests needs some work, but he has only played 31 games so far. He has been on our list a fair while so people forget how few games he has played.

His upside is massive if we can develop him into a good player who can hold down the CHB position. Yes, he is learning on the job a bit and will make mistakes, but I am prepared to take that risk in the pursuit of developing KPP's. IMO he is a better long term option than continually playing undersized players in that key position.

He was very poor yesterday, whilst against Kennedy I would exepect him to hold him , negate his impact or at least break even. He has shown ability at times and played some decent games in defence to give us hope that he can hold down the CHB position. Honestly we have no-one else of size on our list apart from Cam Wight.
I am putting it down to confidence because of the positive signs he has shown that he can succeed in the ket slot. Aker has also said he believes Williams is the real deal.

 

[Bulldog Joe]

I am amazed at how Tom gets berated at any sign of a poor effort and yet the same posters keep calling for the inclusion of players like Grant, Boumann, Cordy, Roughead etc. who are well behind in being ready to play.

Since Tommy has returned to the side he has been

berated for his game against Collingwood when he wasn't as bad as posters suggested.
praised for his game against Essendon when he was very good
mixed reviews for his effort against St Kilda where he was ok.
both berated and praised against Freo where he showed some really positive run
berated for the game against West Coast where he was pretty ordinary along with about 15 team mates.

Tommy is ok and will be fine. Just let him develop. He is worth his spot.

 

[SPower]

Well said BJ - I'm with you!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[LondonBulldog]

Why does everybody assume there is a massive upside to Tom Williams? Is it because he was taken at 6?

I haven't seen a lot of potential in Williams. I don't think he will ever be great, more of a handy player.

Compare him to Lake when you first saw him in his first couple of season.

 

[Dog 36]

He wasn't great yesterday, and the way he uses his body in marking contests needs some work, but he has only played 31 games so far. He has been on our list a fair while so people forget how few games he has played.

His upside is massive if we can develop him into a good player who can hold down the CHB position. Yes, he is learning on the job a bit and will make mistakes, but I am prepared to take that risk in the pursuit of developing KPP's. IMO he is a better long term option than continually playing undersized players in that key position.

Totally agree with you. Very good post

Lets not forget Tom has played only 31 games broken up between injuries. Tommy will be okay.

If the dogs had kicked straighter and not given the Eagles a start Josh Kennedys goals would not be mentioned.

 

[Lightning_Mcqueen95]

May as well play him as it does not matter really.

 

[Bulldog Joe]

Why does everybody assume there is a massive upside to Tom Williams? Is it because he was taken at 6?

I haven't seen a lot of potential in Williams. I don't think he will ever be great, more of a handy player.

Compare him to Lake when you first saw him in his first couple of season.[/quote]

If Williams improves from his efforts over his 1st 30 games as much as the player formerly known as Brian Harris has then Williams will be a champion.

Part of the issue with Lake's contract negotiation is that he was very ordinary for quite a long time. In his 1st 31 games he had double figure possessions only 3 times and gave no indication that he could be such a good mark.

 

[Libba39]

Why does everybody assume there is a massive upside to Tom Williams? Is it because he was taken at 6?

I haven't seen a lot of potential in Williams. I don't think he will ever be great, more of a handy player.

Compare him to Lake when you first saw him in his first couple of season.

Good point LB. If he was taken at pick 45 people wouldn't even be worrying about having these debates. The fact is that he was taken at 6 and people expect more of him.

He is poor-average at the moment but unfortunately we probably still need him to take the second or third tall.

Unfortunately, watching Tom yesterday I think his body is simply shot to pieces after having so many injuries in his short career. He just doesn't seem to have the core body strength to be able to stand up at AFL level.

 

[paul scholes]

Gee trepidation entering these parts nowdays. Fancy judging a player on what 20 odd games. He will be a good footballer,yes hed a stinker yesterday,as did everyone.If we listened to people on here lake would be playing at another club by now!

 

[the dog's kennel]

I really think this is a rubbish thread.

As mentioned earlier, we have had people howling to the moon on this forum for the entire season demanding that Boumann, Cordy, Roughead and Grant get games. They say that the only way that talls can improve is to gain experience. They talk about talls like Jack Riewoldt who has been rubbish for years but is now blossoming after faith has been shown in him. Never mind that these kids would blow over in a stiff breeze - "PLAY THEM ALL NOW", they say.

And then they bag out the only young tall we have who is strong enough to actually play AFL. And they execute him off the back of 1 or 2 shit games when coming back from injury.

The reason why Williams has potential is because out of 31 games he has played 5 or 6 EXCELLENT games. He has also played a lot of crap games, such as this week. That's what happens with young KP players. It's what happened with our precious Brian Lake too.

Can't you see that unlike last year Williams is actually gradually learning to take the game on? Last year he was usually behind his man. Now he's trying to leave his man to help set up play. It's backfiring a lot. But that's how you learn. It took Lake till he was 25 to learn to do that right.

Williams is what developing young talent actually looks like. If you don't want to play him, then let's play Welsh till he's 39. And let's delist Cordy right now. He might have a bad game.

Fair dinkum, i'm cut up too. But this is just ridiculous.

 

[Power_Forward]

Williams is what developing young talent actually looks like.

You realise the guy Williams played on yesterday is 21 (Williams is 23) and has played only a couple more games than him due to injuries. I would say that is what developing young talent looks like.

 

[the dog's kennel]

You realise the guy Williams played on yesterday is 21 (Williams is 23) and has played only a couple more games than him due to injuries. I would say that is what developing young talent looks like.

Oh, i'm not knocking kennedy. he's great. and williams had a crap game this week. But kennedy's had plenty of crap games too.

My point is that developing young talent looks inconsistent. It makes mistakes. Expecting perfection is self-defeating.

 

[jeemak]

I really think this is a rubbish thread.

As mentioned earlier, we have had people howling to the moon on this forum for the entire season demanding that Boumann, Cordy, Roughead and Grant get games. They say that the only way that talls can improve is to gain experience. They talk about talls like Jack Riewoldt who has been rubbish for years but is now blossoming after faith has been shown in him. Never mind that these kids would blow over in a stiff breeze - "PLAY THEM ALL NOW", they say.

And then they bag out the only young tall we have who is strong enough to actually play AFL. And they execute him off the back of 1 or 2 shit games when coming back from injury.

The reason why Williams has potential is because out of 31 games he has played 5 or 6 EXCELLENT games. He has also played a lot of crap games, such as this week. That's what happens with young KP players. It's what happened with our precious Brian Lake too.

Can't you see that unlike last year Williams is actually gradually learning to take the game on? Last year he was usually behind his man. Now he's trying to leave his man to help set up play. It's backfiring a lot. But that's how you learn. It took Lake till he was 25 to learn to do that right.

Williams is what developing young talent actually looks like. If you don't want to play him, then let's play Welsh till he's 39. And let's delist Cordy right now. He might have a bad game.

Fair dinkum, i'm cut up too. But this is just ridiculous.

Good post.

Kennedy was taken in the top five in the draft, for good reason. He was a gun KPP, and West Coast didn't demand him to be part of the Judd trade for nothing.

Tom had a crap one yesterday, and he's gonna have a lot of other crap games in the coming years. There's a reason why he is in the team though, and it's not just to justify his high position in the draft. He has raw talent mixed with athletic ability, and he will learn to use it more and more.

He may not ever be a great player, but if he takes a bit of time and turns into a good player I'll be happy.

 

[Power_Forward]

Oh, i'm not knocking kennedy. he's great. and williams had a crap game this week. But kennedy's had plenty of crap games too.

My point is that developing young talent looks inconsistent. It makes mistakes. Expecting perfection is self-defeating.

I agree it does, but it's fair to say Kennedy's good has been substantially better, and more often.

I'm not necessarily having a dig at Williams directly, I just think as a club we don't demand enough from young players early enough. We just fall back on the "well he's young line". Chris Grant kicked 50 goals as a 17 year old and was a star at 23, Wayne Carey was captain at 22, Essendon's KP defenders this year are 19, 19, and 20. We've got Williams at 23, Everitt 20, Grant 20, O'shea 20, Tiller 22, who are having either no or next to no impact on games

 

[chef]

You realise the guy Williams played on yesterday is 21 (Williams is 23) and has played only a couple more games than him due to injuries. I would say that is what developing young talent looks like.

And people on here are reacting like Kennedy has just kicked 10 goals on him. Williams is a young key position player who is still developing.

 

[Dry Rot]

It might help if Williams looked like he knew what he was doing, but just got beaten.

IMO, we'd be better served in the long term if he served a proper VFL apprentice and learnt the game, and got confidence in his work.

 

[maddog37]

Any forward will kick goals when their midfield is running free with no pressure on the delivery which was the case yesterday.

Kennedy obviously can play and is starting to get some confidence which is great for him after the crap he has been through with the Judd trade.

Williams played crap but to single him out is pretty unfair.

When the whole team struggles should we blame the kids with 30 games experience or the senior, 100 game plus types? Should we expect the kids to burn when their senior leaders are playing like millionaires?

 

[Sween54]

I agree Tampon Tom has only 30 games to his name, but to me it seem as he's playing his first game for the 30th time. Has shown very lttle improvement. I compare the decision to pick him at 6 the same as applying for a mail order bride, it was just sheer desperation

It would good if our game was played in northern hempishere we could send tom and some others off to Denmark to get some development games during the off season

 

[stefoid]

He just needs more games. Susceptability to injury aside, he is physically up to playing AFL, unlike Boumann, Grant, cordy etc... He is a good trainer and he is strong and his fitness is good - so Eade is playing him on the big blokes who cover a bit of ground in order that Lake, Hargreave and Morris are free to play on others.

You can just judge the decision to play Tom on the basis of goals he concedes alone, you have to look at what Lake and/or Hargreave are contributing by not having to play on Williams opponent. And who is to say that either of those guys would have done any better than Tom anyway? Lake isnt great against the guys that are super quick and cover a lot of ground, and Hargreave is just as likely to get monstered by a guy like Kennedy as Williams is.

 

[The Boy From Brasil]

Why does everybody assume there is a massive upside to Tom Williams? Is it because he was taken at 6?

Maybe his high draft picking gives us more expectations. But IMO it is more to do with his size, athleticism, speed and his talent and potential that you hear everyone at the club talk about.

In some ways he is a work in progress, but if he could nail down the CHB position and we keep Lake, then with Hargrave and Morris as 3rd and 4th defenders, and Tiller and Everitt in reserve, and Gilbee and Harbrow to give us defensive run, then our backline is sorted. We don't have to worry about our backline and our undersized defenders always punching above their weight, we can keep a settled backline and throw all our energy into getting a half decent forward structure.

That is the theory anyway. That is why I said there is a huge upsize in him. If he was a small player he would have been delisted by now. But with all the attributes he brings or can potentially bring, it is well worth playing him IMO. He just needs games against good opponents to learn on body work, decision making etc.Hopefully for every Josh Kennedy thrashing there are heaps of match saving performances ahead.

 

[RedWhite&Blue]

Why does everybody assume there is a massive upside to Tom Williams? Is it because he was taken at 6?

I haven't seen a lot of potential in Williams. I don't think he will ever be great, more of a handy player.

Compare him to Lake when you first saw him in his first couple of season.[/quote]

If Williams improves from his efforts over his 1st 30 games as much as the player formerly known as Brian Harris has then Williams will be a champion.

Part of the issue with Lake's contract negotiation is that he was very ordinary for quite a long time. In his 1st 31 games he had double figure possessions only 3 times and gave no indication that he could be such a good mark.

There was that absolute screamer he took over Alistair Lynch in his first season at the Dome. Knees on shoulders, arms outstretched, one grab.
Massive grab.

 

[brandy1023]

Why is it an experiment?

He is a young KPD who is going to take time to develop. Does anyone remember what Lake was like at this stage of his career.