williamstown lost

[MarkT]

I think Mark's getting mixed up. The O'Keefe rumour that's circulated widely is that he was offered to us in return for Nick Davis, not Willo.

Apologies, that’s the one I meant.

And the rumour's upside down anyway. We wanted O'Keefe.

No as I have heard it we said no thanks we’ll take the pick.

I don’t know any of it is true as I said originally.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I think Mark's getting mixed up. The O'Keefe rumour that's circulated widely is that he was offered to us in return for Nick Davis, not Willo.

Given our history of trading we probably would have ended up with Ryan O'Connor instead of Ryan O'Keefe.

 

[MarkT]

I reckon the general concensus is that we aren't good enough. We all know about the blunders. We all know we get fed spin (as ALL clubs do). What I'm getting at is that we should not hyper-analyse certain events, such as rookies who've been overlooked 300 times by opposition clubs, who have made a moderate impact at AFL level.

I'm only genuinely pessimistic about Collingwood and Malthouse right now (trade & draft period). I think it's our downfall. I just reckon it's been predominantly draft related.

Look, everything that you say is overanalysing is just example highlighting. The sum total that produces the results at the end is the real issue. A miss here and a get there can all work out in the end. We have had picks:
1 & 3 in 1999 with PSD 1
3 in 2000 with PSD 2
11 in 2001
7 in 2004 with PSD 4
2 & 5 in 2005 with PSD 2

That is just the very early first rounders. It hasn’t all worked out because we are incompetent. We still have most of the responsible people on the biggest football staff in the history the game.

Hindsight would dictate that he was worth $400K per year. But then we didn't have a crystal ball, nor a 10% salary cap advantage. He was a one quarter per game specialist.

But this is precisely the skill we must have. The crystal ball is what we pay for and hindsight is the ONLY judge. The issue here is making the correct judgement often enough. It’s no good excusing failure on the basis of difficulty. That is precisely the recipe for the results we achieve. Eddie blamed injury last year. The previous year in response to trade queries he blamed the fact that clubs don’t want to trade with us because they hate us.

Look, I hate criticising Collingwood. Look at my posting history on the main board over 5 years. The fact is we have failed yet again and now we have to do the same old Collingwood start again and hope the same offenders do it a lot better this time. Unfortunately the odds are incredibly slim.

Yes, we've done some ordinary stuff. As it stands, we are rebuilding, and hopefully having leared from our mistakes. If I see evidence that we haven't learned from our mistakes, then I will personally overthrow the board Eddie style.

We have learned have we? Where is our ruckman? We went into another season with the exact same list deficiencies we have had since MM arrived. We extended Malthouses contract after the AGM on the back of 15th which had followed 13th. This after an abysmal grand final from players AND coach. We still can’t get a decent trade over the line and the only draft hits we have had bar maybe Rusling have come from very early picks.

What have we learnt? I’ll you one thing, our supporters have unfortunately learned too much patience.

 

[Hadders]

Really what's the point of looking at the past? Yes, lessons can be learned from mistakes made and unfortuneatly there are a large number of screw-ups that we have as examples over the past 5 or so years.

But aren't things looking a lot better than in the past? Our drafting of the past couple of years has been better and the development of a number of players this year who didn't look like they'd ever make it, has been extremely promising. From early indications we are building a strong contingent of young players and a solid group of mid-20s players who are being groomed to take over from our retiring stars. IMO the future looks positive. As long as we draft well this year, I think we will be in an extrememly strong position in 2-3 years time.

And MarkT in recent weeks you've criticised the coach, the president, the playing list and the recruiting staff. Surely there must be some positives that have come out of this season for you and into the future. Hell, after reading some of your posts, I've had to check whether you are actually talking about Collingwood and not Carlton. I respect that you only have the best interests of Collingwood at heart but c'mon there's gotta be something to look forward to.

 

[MarkT]

If we draft well this year from mid draft range we will tread water against those other clubs that draft well from that range and lose ground to those that draft well from below us. It is all well and to say as long as we draft well but everyone can say the same thing.

And MarkT in recent weeks you've criticised the coach, the president, the playing list and the recruiting staff.

For longer than recent weeks but yes I have.

Surely there must be some positives that have come out of this season for you and into the future.

Some expected positives are pick 2 and 5 look good. Unexpected positives are H.Shaw and Swan look a lot better than I had expected and dared hope.

I respect that you only have the best interests of Collingwood at heart but c'mon there's gotta be something to look forward to.

The only something that counts is premierships. Not competitive top 4, not losing grand finals and not “at least we have good draft picks”.

When The Collingwood Football Club sees seasons like 2006 as failure and when the members demand a lot more I will be more positive. We still look at 2003 as a good season and a positive reflection on the coach. We did nothing to address the deficiencies exposed.

What 2006 result would have had you thinking the coach has failed and should go?

 

[ant22]

All I will say is 3 tears ago we lost a 2nd consecutive GF. We lost no one of note and now we are saying we have improved to go from 15th to 7th. That just doesn’t make sense.I don't doubt they do their best but their best is not good enough because they are not enough. Havn't been for half a century!

Just explain our list given our draft picks.

Please don't take my comments out of context Mark, I agree we have not improved since 2003. All i am saying is we have improved since last year and improved alot.
I explained why we went down hill quickly in earlier posts on this topic(which at the time yuo dissagreed with) It is because we had a crap recruiter and that most of the players we drafted from about 2000-2004 where terrible. I see alot more promise in the players we have drafted in the last 2 years(but i always like to give players a few years before labelling the stars). I am not here to defend our drafting but you,me and not one person can change the players we recruited. I think the recruiting issue was recognised and address a couple of years ago so I personally don't see the point in dwelling on it.

you obvisouly set tour standards very high and thats great but sides often fall and fall very quickly after being at or near the top and i think we did reasonably well to go from a celler dweller to a finals side in the space of 1 year.

 

[Hadders]

If we draft well this year from mid draft range we will tread water against those other clubs that draft well from that range and lose ground to those that draft well from below us. It is all well and to say as long as we draft well but everyone can say the same thing. For longer than recent weeks but yes I have. Some expected positives are pick 2 and 5 look good. Unexpected positives are H.Shaw and Swan look a lot better than I had expected and dared hope. The only something that counts is premierships. Not competitive top 4, not losing grand finals and not “at least we have good draft picks”.

When The Collingwood Football Club sees seasons like 2006 as failure and when the members demand a lot more I will be more positive. We still look at 2003 as a good season and a positive reflection on the coach. We did nothing to address the deficiencies exposed.

What 2006 result would have had you thinking the coach has failed and should go?

2006 was always going to be a tough year to gauge success. If we had of finished 10th, the season still would have probably been considered a success compared to the previous two. Now I don't necessarily agree with this and if Collingwood hadn't of made the finals I would have been disappointed. But they did and they made some positive progress, enough IMO that MM can at least see out his contract until the end of 2007.

 

[Jabso]

MarkT is the emo kid of the Collingwood supporter spectrum.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

MarkT is the emo kid of the Collingwood supporter spectrum.

He wears black and black stripes

 

[MarkT]

Dunno what an emo kid is but I presume it’s not good.

Just think Collingwood supporters always let the club off too lightly and that’s partly why we fail consistently. If you don’t think we have failed then that’s my point in a nutshell.

Compare the Collingwood coaching careers of Hafey and Malthouse.
List all the coaches that have been at a club 7 years and then went on to win a first flag.

If we accept this we accept more of the same.

 

[Murray]

Mark's "song" is always on high rotation this time of the year

 

[CarnthePies]

Why didn't we have any of our better senior guys playing?

 

[ant22]

Dunno what an emo kid is but I presume it’s not good.

Just think Collingwood supporters always let the club off too lightly and that’s partly why we fail consistently. If you don’t think we have failed then that’s my point in a nutshell.

Compare the Collingwood coaching careers of Hafey and Malthouse.
List all the coaches that have been at a club 7 years and then went on to win a first flag.

If we accept this we accept more of the same.

I would love to think I has some kind of influence on the way we perform but that would be giving myself way too much credit. What I think or anyone else on this board thinks has absolutely nothing to do with how the team preforms onfield. Based on your theory 15 out of 16 clubs fail every year. In some way this is correct but it also proves how bloody tough it is to win one.

 

[MarkT]

Based on my theory we failed in the 2003 grand final and since but I wouldn’t say we failed in 2002. Nothing is absolute. My comments relate to what we have from the opportunities we have been presented with due to our placings and what we have done with it. The most important aspect of the measure of the past is the implication for the future.

If you always do what you’ve always done you’ll always get what you’ve always got.
Floeat Pica.

 

[Jabso]

Maybe emo isn't the right analogy. Perhaps he is the Propagandhi of the Collingwood supporting world?
Noone will get that.