Wingard- Sook, Draft tamperer or just a good honest bloke

[Tex Danger]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-05-15/chads-giant-refusal

This article seems to open a few grey areas regarding the draft and draft tampering for mine. Interested to hear others thoughts.

Im not for one second saying he/port should be punished or did do something wrong, but when a kid from any state makes it clear to the only team with picks above one from his own state that if they pick him he will leave and that is not considered draft manipulation, then what is?

This being something that has now openly occurred really does open a can of worms that players/clubs could easily exploit.

 

[PrideOf]

That's the problem with calling it draft tampering and the fact that any court in the land would carpet the AFL if any player ever pushed the restraint of trade angle.

Wingard says he doesn't want to go. That's draft tampering by definition. But they can't force him to go under the laws of the land.

Good on Wingard for being honest. It just shows the AFL's system for the house of cards it's built on.

 

[Bacon8]

Chad suggests he wants to play for his club of choice, and he's lauded for his honesty.

Kurt suggests he wants to play for his club of choice, and the AFL throws the book.

 

[manureid]

Is this a Crows only discussion thread....

 

[Crow_Magnon]

It's on the main board too...

 

[Tex Danger]

Is this a Crows only discussion thread....

when i made it I knew it would likely stir up a few port people to comment. I have no problem with that personally but I will say this-

As i said in the opening post I am merely raising the topic as as others have commented since, it would seem to be exactly what draft tampering refers to (from a player perspective, not club) but not something likely to be punished.

It is more a discussion on the general issue, not a slanging match between us and you and saying port should get slammed.

it is more on is a player allowed to do this, should they be/should there be penalties for doing this (for ANY player) and if a player does this are they being a bit soft not wanting to leave home or is it something they should do (would we have rathered Gunston do this), etc

 

[Danoz]

Is this a Crows only discussion thread....

Hey poocard, haven't seen you over at the ol' SF of A recently

 

[manureid]

That is actually a good question for those in the AFL Thread on this board calling it draft tampering/a disgrace etc..would you have preferred Gunston to say this in his interview? And if he had, and you still drafted him and he left, would you be annoyed at him for leaving, or for your club not heeding that warning and drafting him anyway.

 

[BigLefty]

Chad suggests he wants to play for his club of choice, and he's lauded for his honesty.

Kurt suggests he wants to play for his club of choice, and the AFL throws the book.

That's a good point.

It is not that different at all to what Kurt did.

So if Wingard says ok, i'll come to GWS but then I want to be traded home, and they accept those terms. its tampering.
If Wingard says ok, i'll come to GWS but then I want to be traded home, and the decline to not draft him. it ok.

 

[Tex Danger]

It's on the main board too...

probably should have looked there before posting this here (to be honest I never really look there so didnt think to).

I can delete this thread if people think or mods feel free to do so

 

[Danoz]

That is actually a good question for those in the AFL Thread on this board calling it draft tampering/a disgrace etc..would you have preferred Gunston to say this in his interview? And if he had, and you still drafted him and he left, would you be annoyed at him for leaving, or for your club not heeding that warning and drafting him anyway.

Absolutely I'd have preferred Gunston to say this in his interview. If he did, and we drafted him anyway, more the fools are us. I'm guessing we had reservations, but backed our system to get him to stay.

Have you noticed how few Vic Metro twits the Crows have drafted recently? (I'll give you a hint, it's close to zero). Pretty sure we've learnt our lesson hard from that one.

 

[Niximus]

Port fans will defend it because it benefited them.

If the scenario was that they found themselves with the #1 pick and all the most highly rated players were Victorians telling them that they don't want to leave Victoria, they'd have a problem with it.

 

[Tex Danger]

That is actually a good question for those in the AFL Thread on this board calling it draft tampering/a disgrace etc..would you have preferred Gunston to say this in his interview? And if he had, and you still drafted him and he left, would you be annoyed at him for leaving, or for your club not heeding that warning and drafting him anyway.

it is a real interesting question and there would be cases to prove either answer right.

There would be many players who if honest, would have chosen not to leave their state but once being at a club settled in just fine and would want to be nowhere else. Reilly is a good example of a player who has stayed despite being open about wanting to leave, Tippet would have said the same but ended at sydney so anything can happen in those 2 years.Even danger who was going to stay home a year would have scared many off and if he had have left after 2 years we would have been hounded for not reading those signs.

I just think its a can of worms best left unopened.

I also hope for as long as we are the lowest finishing SA team that the best SA juniors manager is clear in the fact that if he were to slide to us we would take him!

 

[manureid]

it is a real interesting question and there would be cases to prove either answer right.

There would be many players who if honest, would have chosen not to leave their state but once being at a club settled in just fine and would want to be nowhere else. Reilly is a good example of a player who has stayed despite being open about wanting to leave, Tippet would have said the same but ended at sydney so anything can happen in those 2 years.Even danger who was going to stay home a year would have scared many off and if he had have left after 2 years we would have been hounded for not reading those signs.

I just think its a can of worms best left unopened.

I also hope for as long as we are the lowest finishing SA team that the best SA juniors manager is clear in the fact that if he were to slide to us we would take him!

As has been stated in other threads, Wines was this kid. Was devastated when he was drafted by us, as was his family.

 

[Macca19]

Port fans will defend it because it benefited them.

If the scenario was that they found themselves with the #1 pick and all the most highly rated players were Victorians telling them that they don't want to leave Victoria, they'd have a problem with it.

Its already happened to us before with Mitch Thorp.

EDIT: And in any case, this would happen dozens of times every year. You hear stories every single year after the draft, sometimes even before the draft of players throwing their draft interviews, threatening to go home after 1 contract etc.

 

[BigLefty]

That is actually a good question for those in the AFL Thread on this board calling it draft tampering/a disgrace etc..would you have preferred Gunston to say this in his interview? And if he had, and you still drafted him and he left, would you be annoyed at him for leaving, or for your club not heeding that warning and drafting him anyway.

I would hope that we draft him anyway if we think he's good enough. Back in the environment to develop him as best we can and hope he has a change of heart.

We did ok out of drafting then developing and supporting Gunston. We made him a good enough player to create same demand. Then traded him for ultimately I think Jenkins and Lynch.

For a second round pick, Jenkins and Lynch is a pretty good return.

He's still a flog though

 

[Bacon8]

As has been stated in other threads, Wines was this kid. Was devastated when he was drafted by us, as was his family.

So was Sloane. Both are examples of kids, going somewhere they thought they didn't want to, and actually having it turn out okay for them.

Its already happened to us before with Mitch Thorp.

Lucky for you then.

 

[spenze]

Have no issue with him being honest, if GWS wanted him they should have backed themselves in to keep him...though constant 100 thrashings may not have been a selling point in staying

 

[Bacon8]

I would hope that we draft him anyway if we think he's good enough. Back in the environment to develop him as best we can and hope he has a change of heart.

We did ok out of drafting then developing and supporting Gunston. We made him a good enough player to create same demand. Then traded him for ultimately I think Jenkins and Lynch.

For a second round pick, Jenkins and Lynch is a pretty good return.

He's still a flog though

Lynch was from Maric's pick.

Gunston got us Jenkins, Grigg & Kerridge

 

[jo172]

I think good on him.

Much easier to tolerate than Fergus Watts "I want to be a one club player" bullshit

 

[Tex Danger]

In surprised given how often that change of heart must happen that GWS didnt take the punt. I reckon if they rated him comfortably above who they took at pick 5 then they would have but maybe they thought they were all similar so didnt bother.

But when you think about it- they were flush with high draft picks, chances are they would have to trade some anyway and if he developed like this then they would be able to trade him at the end of last year for a great return anyway if he didnt change his mind. He is obviosuly not the type of player to crack the sulks and not delevop because of it (from what I can gather anyway, he seems a lot more mentally switched on than that)

 

[ruscy002]

Probably more valid in here than the AFL thread...

Putting aside the fact that Wingard might have engaged in what would be relatively minor draft tampering, there's a bigger issue here.

Clubs would absolutely prefer to hear that a player doesn't want to come to their club, and I'm certain it happens all the time, but this is against the rules of the draft. Once again, along with things like tanking and third party deals, there's a massive divide between the rules that are in place and what is actually happening.

The AFL need to either come down on players/clubs/officials when they break the rules all the time (not just when they get caught red handed and make a scene like us, or innocently admit to it in an interview like Wingard) or they need to call a spade a shovel and let clubs/officials do the things that they've always done with transparency and make it within the rules.

 

[Schulzenfest]

Port fans will defend it because it benefited them.

If the scenario was that they found themselves with the #1 pick and all the most highly rated players were Victorians telling them that they don't want to leave Victoria, they'd have a problem with it.

Wouldn't be jumping for joy, but I'd rather have that happen than have a player keep that little fact to himself and then leave us with nothing in two years ala Ben Jacobs (although the main reason that we shouldn't have drafted Jacobs is because he's ****ing useless).

 

[ruscy002]

I think good on him.

Much easier to tolerate than Fergus Watts "I want to be a one club player" bullshit

I wonder if our targeting of lads from rich/white collar/upper class families (Watts, Gunston, Tippett etc.) has backfired in this regard. Can't imagine their parents/advisors allowing them to tanks interviews, they'd be told to go in there and parrot all of the perfect things that they're supposed to say.

 

[BigLefty]

Lynch was from Maric's pick.

Gunston got us Jenkins, Grigg & Kerridge

Even better