Review Winners and losers 2022 draft

[Sphynx]

Lol you lost me at 'Duncan is a one way runner.' Routinely covers the most ground and plays all three thirds of the ground most games...but okey doke. Duncan has never relied on 'being a brute' either.

I think you need to stop comparing them, as you don't seem to be quite across the players you're comparing. Wouldn't be such an issue, if you hadn't just pilloried someone earlier for doing the exact same thing.

Yes, Duncan is a big runner, but he runs to receive and create.

He's not a defensive player.

Regarding doesn't win his ball by "being a brute", that was exactly my point. Which is similar to Tsatas.

 

[Shadow89]

Yes, Duncan is a big runner, but he runs to receive and create.

He's not a defensive player.

Regarding doesn't win his ball by "being a brute", that was exactly my point. Which is similar to Tsatas.

That's not what you said -

"Tsatas and Duncan as two guys who get a decent amount of the ball are a similar size and aren't great defensively and rely on being brutes to win the ball"

Running defensively to run and create is still running defensively. Not to mention it's wrong anyway, as Duncan had a career high tackle count of 18 - something most players could only dream of - so he's not just a 'run and create' player. Tsatas does not run defensively - to provide back up, or to run and create. He accumulates and runs forward.

I'm going to end this here, because we're getting nowhere, and you clearly don't know enough about Duncan as a player to be commenting on him/comparing him to a draftee.

Duncan and Tsatas are not similar players - end of story.

 

[Sphynx]

That's not what you said -

"Tsatas and Duncan as two guys who get a decent amount of the ball are a similar size and aren't great defensively and rely on being brutes to win the ball"

Running defensively to run and create is still running defensively. Not to mention it's wrong anyway, as Duncan had a career high tackle count of 18 - something most players could only dream of - so he's not just a 'run and create' player. Tsatas does not run defensively - to provide back up, or to run and create. He accumulates and runs forward.

I'm going to end this here, because we're getting nowhere, and you clearly don't know enough about Duncan as a player to be commenting on him/comparing him to a draftee.

Duncan and Tsatas are not similar players - end of story.

It was a typo mate, it mean't to read "don't rely"

Who's being condescending now?

I've watched his entire career including his junior career for WA.

FWIW, I have his full testing data from 2009 as well as Tsatas' from this season.

They are quite similar in speed testing, agility, size etc. Duncan has a clear advantage with his endurance however.

in the end it's only my opinion.

As I said, it wasn't unexpected that a Geelong fan would get sand in their undies, they generally do with any minor critique of any of their players.

 

[Shadow89]

It was a typo mate, it mean't to read "don't rely"

Who's being condescending now?

I've watched his entire career including his junior career for WA.

It's only my opinion.

As I said, it wasn't unexpected that a Geelong fan would get sand in their undies, they generally do with any minor critique of any of their players.

Lol, you've made a blatantly incorrect assertion when comparing players, and you're saying I have 'sand in my undies' because I'm calling you out on it? Can guarantee you I've followed his career a lot more closely, as he's one of my favourite players and he's from the club I support.

Duncan has averaged over 3.5 tackles a game over his career...whilst playing a variety of roles that don't require pressure, as a distributor. When he last played pure mid in 2017, he averaged a touch over 5 tackles a game - well above AFL average - and had 129 for the season. This included tackle counts of 11 and 18, along with his 29 disposal average. Tsatas is not that type of player.

Calling you out for being wrong when comparing players, and then providing facts and figures to back up my assertions, is not 'having sand in my undies' or 'being condescending'- it's correcting you on something you clearly know very little about.

Like I said, I wouldn't have cared if you hadn't been so obnoxious and called someone else out for making incorrect comparisons...and then proceeded to do the exact same thing yourself. But keep digging and touting your opinion as fact, and then insulting others - really covering yourself in glory mate.

 

[Sphynx]

Lol, you've made a blatantly incorrect assertion when comparing players, and you're saying I have 'sand in my undies' because I'm calling you out on it? Can guarantee you I've followed his career a lot more closely, as he's one of my favourite players and he's from the club I support.

Duncan has averaged over 3.5 tackles a game over his career...whilst playing a variety of roles that don't require pressure, as a distributor. When he last played pure mid in 2017, he averaged a touch over 5 tackles a game - well above AFL average - and had 129 for the season. This included tackle counts of 11 and 18, along with his 29 disposal average. Tsatas is not that type of player.

Calling you out for being wrong when comparing players, and then providing facts and figures to back up my assertions, is not 'having sand in my undies' or 'being condescending'- it's correcting you on something you clearly know very little about.

Like I said, I wouldn't have cared if you hadn't been so obnoxious and called someone else out for making incorrect comparisons...and then proceeded to do the exact same thing yourself. But keep digging and touting your opinion as fact, and then insulting others - really covering yourself in glory mate.

You might have watched more of Duncan in his Geelong career than me, naturally being a Geelong supporter.

I guarantee you I have comparatively seen more of Tsatas than you have when compared to how much I've seen of Duncan.

I guarantee you I saw more of Duncan at Tsatas' age than you did.

So if we are talking about making false assertions and comparisons, you may want to have an understanding of more than 50% of the subject matter before roasting me.

 

[Jeremias]

Enough thanks. Nobody cares how much you think you saw Mitch Duncan play 15 years ago.

 

[FB19]

Why don’t we settle this like adults and simply handover your future first and Darcy parish

3

Darcy Parish

Age

27

Ht

180cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.4

5star

K

9.2

4star

HB

11.2

5star

M

3.2

3star

T

3.3

5star

CL

3.2

5star

D

16.6

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

9.1

5star

M

1.4

2star

T

2.0

3star

CL

3.1

4star

D

22.2

5star

K

7.6

3star

HB

14.6

5star

M

3.2

4star

T

4.4

5star

CL

3.6

5star

for a future fourth?

 

[00VicWard001]

Why don’t we settle this like adults and simply handover your future first and Darcy parish for a future fourth?

Geelong has done incredibly well in it's drafting and trading period, but surely this would be too much to ask for? I know the Cats will have Parish on our list of players we want, but I don't think Dedoro would simply give Parish and a future 1st for our future fourth. It would be just a bridge too far.

But thank you as always for your support of our mighty club. Since our rivalry ended a few years back, it's been so nice to have you as the Robin to our Batman. You've become our little sidekicks, our BFF's, who'd have thought it?

 

[jackenny]

We traded away access to the higher end of multiple drafts to acquire him.

The fact we then made out like bandits in the long run with our highest draft pick over 3 seasons being 45 is remarkable.

2016: Harry Morrison, Mitch Lewis
2017: James Worpel, Dylan Moore
2018: Jacob Koschitzke

But you could have had all that and those picks you gave up for O’Meara.

Hawthorn gave up their 2017 Future-First, 2017 Future-Second, Pick 36, and Pick 23 (that they received for Brad Hill) for Jaeger O’Meara to play an odd 99 games. That’s a lot of draft capital to give up for a player who is one game shy of even using his freaky genetics to give the Hawks a decent F/S selection.

Yeah, St Kilda ultimately picked Ben Long with the Brad Hill pick they received in 2016, but who’s to say the Hawks wouldn’t have picked up any one of Shai Bolton, Sean Darcy, or Josh Battle who were still up for grabs? How about about any one of Hunter Clark, Nick Coffield, Aaron Naughton, Darcy Fogarty, Oscar Allen, or Noah Balta with 2017’s first? Or any one of Liam Ryan, Charlie Spargo, Tom de Koning, or Bayley Fritsch with 2017’s second?

Jaeger O’Meara was a gamble that didn’t pay off. In isolation and with the benefit of hindsight, I doubt many Hawk supporters would repeat it.

In saying that, the Weddle deal is better for one particular reason: the Hawks didn’t trade out their 2023 future-first. In fact, Sydney were the ones to give up a selection in the first round, not the Hawks. Just remember that before comparing it to deals like the Stocker live-trade and the O’Meara trade for that matter. Basically, trading their future-firsts seems to be where these deals really backfire more than anything.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

I don't think Collingwood did very well in the perspective of recruiting players that would help get them over the Prelim Final Hump, and McStay is an expensive cap eater.

Can't blame them for the Ollie Henry trade for unders, that's a fault of the trading system

 

[Blackhawk42]

But you could have had all that and those picks you gave up for O’Meara.

Hawthorn gave up their 2017 Future-First, 2017 Future-Second, Pick 36, and Pick 23 (that they received for Brad Hill) for Jaeger O’Meara to play an odd 99 games. That’s a lot of draft capital to give up for a player who is one game shy of even using his freaky genetics to give the Hawks a decent F/S selection.

Yeah, St Kilda ultimately picked Ben Long with the Brad Hill pick they received in 2016, but who’s to say the Hawks wouldn’t have picked up any one of Shai Bolton, Sean Darcy, or Josh Battle who were still up for grabs? How about about any one of Hunter Clark, Nick Coffield, Aaron Naughton, Darcy Fogarty, Oscar Allen, or Noah Balta with 2017’s first? Or any one of Liam Ryan, Charlie Spargo, Tom de Koning, or Bayley Fritsch with 2017’s second?

Jaeger O’Meara was a gamble that didn’t pay off. In isolation and with the benefit of hindsight, I doubt many Hawk supporters would repeat it.

In saying that, the Weddle deal is better for one particular reason: the Hawks didn’t trade out their 2023 future-first. In fact, Sydney were the ones to give up a selection in the first round, not the Hawks. Just remember that before comparing it to deals like the Stocker live-trade and the O’Meara trade for that matter. Basically, trading their future-firsts seems to be where these deals really backfire more than anything.

I agree.

The reason for my post was to show how lucky we were. Or how skillful our recruiters were to nail all those late selections.

 

[jackenny]

I agree.

The reason for my post was to show how lucky we were. Or how skillful our recruiters were to nail all those late selections.

That’s a fair point. Without the utterly lucky breaks in recruiting Lewis and Moore, those drafts would be genuinely horrendous. Morrison’s a handy fringe player; improves a little bit every year, very consistent. I am on the fence on Worpel; next season will make or break him. He might end up just being steak knives in a trade if he continues the poor form. I genuinely rate Morrison higher at this stage of their careers. Extraordinary fall from grace since that purple patch in 2019.

 

[Blackhawk42]

That’s a fair point. Without the utterly lucky breaks in recruiting Lewis and Moore, those drafts would be genuinely horrendous. Morrison’s a handy fringe player; improves a little bit every year, very consistent. I am on the fence on Worpel; next season will make or break him. He might end up just being steak knives in a trade if he continues the poor form. I genuinely rate Morrison higher at this stage of their careers. Extraordinary fall from grace since that purple patch in 2019.

Worpel is such an interesting watch for next year. Historically plays better when at least one of Mitchell or O'Meara miss games. Now they're both gone it will be fascinating to see how he responds.
He's gone on record of saying that he was too heavy over the past few seasons. He's trimmed down massively this off-season.
Big year ahead for him.

 

[HeHateMe]

I agree.

The reason for my post was to show how lucky we were. Or how skillful our recruiters were to nail all those late selections.

Yeah I think that period gets overlooked when assessing where we are in our rebuild. Even though we had very weak draft hands we were fortunate enough to land enough through that period to avoid having a glareing age gap.

 

[Warwick]

whereas Tsatas has consistently been likened to Jarad Polec, with a bit more speed, but minus Polec’s tackling, and with worse kicking.

Yuk.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

You call another comparison laughable and then compare Duncan with Tsatas...okey doke...

Duncan is rated as one of the most elite kicks in the AFL, and can play (and has) most positions on the field to aplomb. He's not overly quick, but he's silky in everything he does.

Tsatas couldn't hit the side of a barn door and plays only one position thus far, with a possibility of wing in the future with his attributes...but is very quick and has burst from the contest - something Duncan does not possess.

The two are nothing alike.

Tsatas is an inconsistent kick rather than what you are asserting. He had games where he couldn't hit a target but others where he tore the game apart with elite kicking to go with strong accumulation. His negatives are defensive positioning, defensive work rate and an unwillingness to even attempt to tackle.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Tsatas is an inconsistent kick rather than what you are asserting. He had games where he couldn't hit a target but others where he tore the game apart with elite kicking to go with strong accumulation. His negatives are defensive positioning, defensive work rate and an unwillingness to even attempt to tackle.

In fairness, sloppy field kicking can be improved/worked on over time.

Impressed you have watched him and other draft prospects (I assume) closely tbh

 

[ArdentEagle]

On Tsatas - Maybe Adam Treloar

1

Adam Treloar

Age

31

Ht

185cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

28.2

5star

K

12.9

5star

HB

15.3

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

4.9

5star

CL

4.6

5star

D

30.3

5star

K

16.3

5star

HB

14.0

5star

M

2.0

2star

T

3.3

4star

CL

5.8

5star

D

18.0

5star

K

11.2

4star

HB

6.8

5star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.6

4star

CL

1.6

4star

is a closer playing style comparison?

 

[dinnaz]

On Tsatas - Maybe Adam Treloar is a closer playing style comparison?

Jack Macrae is probably the closest in the AFL right now.

 

[JasRulz63]

Jack Macrae is probably the closest in the AFL right now.

Macrae was a bit of a loopy, inconsistent kick when he first came into the AFL from memory, which he's managed to improve as his career has continued.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

But you could have had all that and those picks you gave up for O’Meara.

Hawthorn gave up their 2017 Future-First, 2017 Future-Second, Pick 36, and Pick 23 (that they received for Brad Hill) for Jaeger O’Meara to play an odd 99 games. That’s a lot of draft capital to give up for a player who is one game shy of even using his freaky genetics to give the Hawks a decent F/S selection.

Yeah, St Kilda ultimately picked Ben Long with the Brad Hill pick they received in 2016, but who’s to say the Hawks wouldn’t have picked up any one of Shai Bolton, Sean Darcy, or Josh Battle who were still up for grabs? How about about any one of Hunter Clark, Nick Coffield, Aaron Naughton, Darcy Fogarty, Oscar Allen, or Noah Balta with 2017’s first? Or any one of Liam Ryan, Charlie Spargo, Tom de Koning, or Bayley Fritsch with 2017’s second?

Jaeger O’Meara was a gamble that didn’t pay off. In isolation and with the benefit of hindsight, I doubt many Hawk supporters would repeat it.

In saying that, the Weddle deal is better for one particular reason: the Hawks didn’t trade out their 2023 future-first. In fact, Sydney were the ones to give up a selection in the first round, not the Hawks. Just remember that before comparing it to deals like the Stocker live-trade and the O’Meara trade for that matter. Basically, trading their future-firsts seems to be where these deals really backfire more than anything.

I don’t think the Stocker example is a good one to use considering Carlton got a future first back aswell. Ended up turning that one future first into 3 first round selections.

 

[FB19]

We all know the omeara trade was horrific at the time but he’s gone now it was 6 years ago can we all just move on. Hawks had a good draft on the surface they got 2 first rounders they clearly rated highly, a big slider in hustwaite and 2 high upside speculative picks (1 they traded in for to get Bailey McDonald). on that criteria that feels like a strong return. They weakened their 2023 position but critically not in the first round and they still hold picks in r2/3 despite them being likely lower than our natural picks. Won’t be at all surprised to see them trade out of 2024 to come back into 2023. I would argue they did better than I expected which would rate them something like a B. Clubs should be evaluated against expectations where meeting expectations is a C. For example lions get a C as they got exactly who they planned to get for about the expected draft capital. That said draft ratings are total clickbait nonsense,
Maybe time to start a YouTube channel, anyone with those skills ideally a hawks supporter let me know and let’s make some passive income!

 

[Rich01]

I don’t think the Stocker example is a good one to use considering Carlton got a future first back aswell. Ended up turning that one future first into 3 first round selections.

Good trade, but SOS ended up burning those three picks unfortunately.

 

[weltschmerz]

Jack Macrae is probably the closest in the AFL right now.

Macrae knows how to tackle though.

 

[Nat Fyfe]

Just remove the discount. The reward is accessing a kid you normally wouldn't access, why should it also be discounted ???

Not enough. Needs to go one step further and apply a penalty for matching, given that you've already claimed a "discount" by trading your earlier picks for more than they're worth. Make clubs really consider whether it's worth matching that bid