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Worrying sign!

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loki04

loki04

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Although we have been winning comfortably there have been a few things of concern, both Essendon and Richmond smashed us in clearences and most of our goals were kicked against their errors.

Last night Essendon were clearing out of the center with ease their poor disposal and our backs were the only thing stopping them from winning the game.

Against Richmond 11 of our 13 goals were kicked through a direct Richmond turnover against quality sides we wont get these oppurtunites and fear we have had 3 wins against mediocre teams the true test will be against Geelong imo.

Again our rucks really struggle to get any effiecent taps Hille smashed both our rucks and the 1st year player also gave them headaches at the center bounce.

Don't get me wrong love winning like we have but hope we see some improvement in those areas otherwise we may struggle when it counts.

I posted this on Nicks BB but thought it would be a good discusion point on here also.
 
There is no doubt we have some weaknesses, but you have to remember a few things.

Last night we didnt have Josh Fraser, our Ruckmen, and we had 2 ruckmen who are barely up to league standard.

Our midfield got eat time and time again last year in clearances, yet we would have finished 4th without the Didak/Shaw debacle, and we did have Sidebottom and Beams in there for long periods in both those games.

As far as kicking goals from turnovers only, this is a great stat, Hawthorn lead the league in turnover goals last year, so that is a clear indicator.

We as a club rely on our pressure to create turnovers and then counter attack off this, so I see our pre season turnover to goal ratio as impressive.

And we are alos missing our creator, Medhurst, who set up more conventional attacking goal oppoortunites then anyone else in the league last year, so we will improve when he returns.

Like you, I see some concerns, but I sat they are more in defense, as we havent been tested yet, as our best effort was against Richmond, and let's face it, they arent exactly a top 4 threat.

I see Presti as almost our most important player, and as such, he should be rested till round 1 now, as Geelong dont have a dangerous key forward, Mooney and hawkins dont scare anyone.
 
Some good points loki.

We got better when O'Bree and Sidey were on the ball, and both only really played for a half or so each. They got some clear possession.

We do rely a lot on round the ground contests and rebound. We do need to get that polish in the centre square for us to win a flag.
 
Agree with everything mentioned in this thread, the clearances have been a problem for a while now and with the retirement of Burns and O'Bree nearing the end of a solid career the problem is set to get a bit worse before it gets better.

With that said, Sidebottom showed some good signs in the middle for a first gamer and with further maturity and development, he and Beams may well provide the answer. We've also got McCarthy who has shown very good signs and Stanley if he can get - and grasp - an opportunity.

Wellingham may yet have something to offer in this department also, but he just needs to get his head right and stay in the game. We have enough options coming through and there is opportunity there to provide incentive for these players.

The ruck continues to be a problem, we can only hope that Wood can find his feet sooner rather than later. Keeffe is showing some good signs considering how early in his development he is.

Whilst we have benefited from opposition turnovers, it's important to remember that not all of those turnovers were simply from unforced errors. Over the last few seasons we have played our best football when we have pressured the opposition - either directly or indirectly - and capitalised on the spoils. Whether we're tackling hard or simply depriving the ball-carrier of an option, at our best we play this brand of football better than anyone else.

I would like us to become more potent out of the centre square, but hopefully our worries in this area will be alleviated with a bit of time. I agree with FIGJAM in that gaining ascendancy in the centre square is a requirement for premiership success -- nothing beats first use of the ball.
 

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I think if there's one doubt moving into the season proper it's our midfield. We still don't win enough clearances, we still don't have a clear back up ruckman to Fraser, and we are still very indirect and at times slow in our ball movement. Hawthorn, and to an extent Carlton, really exposed this weakness last year when we played them, although I'm still hoping that once the real season starts we will begin to address this issue.
 
Agree...This is why we needed Ben Cousins in the middle of the ground!!!! Not just to play football, but to show the younger guys how to go about it!!!!

Lets all wait and see what this documentry is all about because that is the reason why we didnt take him in the end.
 
FadeAway said:
Agree...This is why we needed Ben Cousins in the middle of the ground!!!! Not just to play football, but to show the younger guys how to go about it!!!!

Lets all wait and see what this documentry is all about because that is the reason why we didnt take him in the end.
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Cousins was most certainly not the answer and after last week and the fallout regarding his "concussion" and all this business with the documentary; I already feel that the powers that be have been vindicated in not taking him.

Besides, I wouldn't consider Cousins a clearance player as such, at least not the type that we need. He's a gut-running midfielder who in his prime would run all day and generally use the ball well, but he's not what you would consider an extractor -- which is what we're missing.

Personally, I'm glad that we backed in our current youth and our recruiting department (in the last draft) to correct our midfield.
 
mattys123 said:
Our midfield got eat time and time again last year in clearances, yet we would have finished 4th without the Didak/Shaw debacle, and we did have Sidebottom and Beams in there for long periods in both those games.
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No, just no. Stop re-writing history.

Our record in the last four home and away games prior to Didak/Shaw was 1-3, our record afterward was 3-1. If anything, the Didak/Shaw debacle greatly improved our ladder position, to eighth.

It is far more reasonable to say that if we hadn't had the Didak/Shaw debacle to galvanise the side, we would have missed finals.
 
I think it is a worrying sign that McCathy didn't play. He has only played a half of high level football this preseason. If he was viewed as a contender for a role, he would have been given game time to get run through the legs.
 
Col Davies said:
Season over?
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Yeah, didnt you notice the sky was falling too.

What more do you want, we have destroyed 3 lower sides while not having anywhere near our best side in, yet you still go negative.

I have basically ignored most of the negatives so far in the NAB Cup, as in 3 weeks a vastly different Collingwood team will take to the park against the Crows.

If we are still struggling in areas after that match, then I may criticize, but at the moment I'm not panicking, we have done well so far, and I fully expect us to push if not defeat the Cats next week.
 
Between Pendlebury/Swan/Beams/McCarthy/Davis/O'Bree we have enough to be competitive most games as long as we're not slaughtered in the ruck.
 

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FadeAway said:
Agree...This is why we needed Ben Cousins in the middle of the ground!!!! Not just to play football, but to show the younger guys how to go about it!!!!

Lets all wait and see what this documentry is all about because that is the reason why we didnt take him in the end.
Click to expand...
One semi senior game, 21 touches 15 handball receives. We have enough players waiting to receive already
 
Col Davies said:
So you, based on a NAB cup game, honestly think our season is over?

What an amazing, naive and somewhat juvenile opinion
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Where did I say season is over?

Your the only one who suggested it in the thread by taking my comments to the extreme trying to play down a legitimate downside of our team, which makes u look like your happy with mediocrity and just a "all is well, there is always next year, team pariah".

I reckon we will be lucky if we win this years flag and think we need a dramatic change in the midfield before we become legitimate contenders.
We have a bottom 8 midfield and it wont stand up against quality when the time comes.

People whinge when they want to see change most have been wanting a change in Ruckmen recruiting, Game plan, Player favouritism, holding on to hacks for too long and the Midfield for years not from a "NAB game".

I started the thread because I see the same deficiency in the list as I saw since MM took over crap rucks with an honest midfield that lacks real class and lack of aggression.

Don't know about you but I'd like to see a Collingwood side who is dominant and has a realistic chance of winning not a side that is going to pinch a flag.
 

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daicos21 said:
Relax man, do u need to see him play a practice match to form an opinion on him?
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last night he had a similar amount of senior games, he has become more outside since joining richmond.

We need the ball inside, we have the outside mids. Cousins would provide us with nothing more then what we already have
 
loki04 said:
Where did I say season is over?

Your the only one who suggested it in the thread by taking my comments to the extreme trying to play down a legitimate downside of our team, which makes u look like your happy with mediocrity and just a "all is well, there is always next year, team pariah".
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you are not allowed to argue with Col or any one of his 9 contrived alter egos he uses when he wants to abuse you, but retain some form of anonymity. He knows nothing about the game, so he has glib one line put downs to make you argue at a shallow level to match his understanding of the game.

I reckon we will be lucky if we win this years flag and think we need a dramatic change in the midfield before we become legitimate contenders.
We have a bottom 8 midfield and it wont stand up against quality when the time comes.
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I am still puzzled how many could think we are a chance this year. Where was the 10 goal improvement against Hawthorn going to come They beat us twice by that margin last year, both in the same manner. So it telling us something. Are we 5 or six goals better off offensively? NO, are we 5 or six goals better off defensively? NO Are we better manned in the mids and rucks? marginally. The game plan is the same, so all this fanciful talk of flags this year really needs to be justified with evidence of wholesale improvement accross the board.

People whinge when they want to see change most have been wanting a change in Ruckmen recruiting, Game plan, Player favouritism, holding on to hacks for too long and the Midfield for years not from a "NAB game".
Click to expand...

For some, the rudimentary elements of team structure mean nothing. For them, they take a few shallow victories against poor teams, throw in the statements of the president who may or may not be under some pressure at board level, and all of a sudden we have fixed every problem that has been endemic for the last 9 years. I am pretty sure that the solution has never been that simple. Well ............. unless you are simple yourself I guess!

I started the thread because I see the same deficiency in the list as I saw since MM took over crap rucks with an honest midfield that lacks real class and lack of aggression.
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MM relies on work ethic, he is almost seemingly opposed to individual brilliance. He wants players in the mould of his own playing style. Honest toilers. The rucks and midfield have been neglected almost the entirity of his tenure, it takes time to bring them up to scratch, but 9 years might be pushing the tolerance levels!

Don't know about you but I'd like to see a Collingwood side who is dominant and has a realistic chance of winning not a side that is going to pinch a flag.
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Yes, a 50/50 H&A record is not really a period of dominance. Even his best season ( 2003) was only 68%. The supporters have learnt to derive joy from being battlers rather than dominators. They have sought solace from finals appearances rather than seeking flags. They have become numb and as a consequence defensive when anything is questioned. Any demands of excellence is seen as treason in their eyes.

Anything less than the expectation of excellence is actually the real treason.
 
FuManchu said:
I am still puzzled how many could think we are a chance this year. Where was the 10 goal improvement against Hawthorn going to come They beat us twice by that margin last year, both in the same manner. So it telling us something. Are we 5 or six goals better off offensively? NO, are we 5 or six goals better off defensively? NO Are we better manned in the mids and rucks? marginally. The game plan is the same, so all this fanciful talk of flags this year really needs to be justified with evidence of wholesale improvement accross the board.
Click to expand...
Ad to that the fact that hawks will almost certainly be improved compared to last year,being a very young team themselves.
 

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