Worst forward line, midfield, and defence to win a premiership in the AFL era?

[marcmurphy3]

I've watched since the early 2000s.

Cats midfield in 2022 wasn't great. On paper looks good but Danger and Selwood were both well past their prime. Not in the top 30 mids in the comp that year. Tigers dynasty midfield nothing special either once Dusty went forward with Cotchin past his prime.

Eagles forward line in 05 would have to be the weakest. Melbourne 22 not great either.

Swans whole team on paper in 05 minus Goodes and Hall was pretty average. Lots of decent players but few stars.

Hard to find a team with a really weak backline. Good defences seem to be a staple of flag teams.

 

[Corkintheocean]

Yeah, nailed it. Looking back it's hard to fathom how we were successful as we were under Roos with that midfield. 2012 though... Hannebery, Kennedy, O'Keefe, Bolton, Jack... all very handy in their own way at the time. (Although Bolton was a bit past his best by then)

Roos was playing 22 in midfield in those 2005 & 2006 sides.

 

[melbournemartin]

I would say:

• Worst Forwardline: Melbourne 2021
• Worst Backline: Bulldogs 2016
• Worst Midfield: Sydney 2012

A forward like with Fritsch and Pickett destroys West Coast 2006. Not saying it was the best ever, but not the worst.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

Look I was just trying to say that you guys achieved a lot considering your lack of KP stock, which I find important in judging a forward line. Whilst Mooney and Hawkins (young) were good if you look at the other premiers two best fwds they are below average:

Better than 07,09,11 Mooney and Hawkins (young)

2024: Curnow/McKay

2022: Hawkins (prime)/Cameron

2020: Riewoldt/Lynch

2019: Riewoldt/Lynch

2018: Kennedy/Darling

2015: Buddy/Roughead

2014: Buddy/Roughead

2013: Buddy/Roughead

2008: Buddy/Roughead

2005: Hall/Goodes

2003: Lynch/Brown (young)

2002: Lynch/Brown (young)

2001: Lynch/Brown (young)

2000: Lloyd/Hird


Worse

2023 Pies

2021 Dees

2017 Richmond (Riewoldt on his own)

2016 Dogs

2012 Swans

2010 Pies

2006 Eagles

2004 Port

So whilst it is possible to win flags without star fwds, besides you guys it’s a struggle to win them. All the teams that had “worse” than you only had 1 flag in their “era”. (Except us but we added lynch later)

Quite incredible the amount of wrong in one post. Hawkins part of the premiership forward line in a season in which he played 9 games and no finals. Mooney likewise somehow in the 2011 team despite playing 8 games and 0 finals that year. Not to mention Franklin still playing for Hawthorn in 2014 and 15.

And I don't know why you think forward line equals key forwards.

 

[Mr Meow]

Look I was just trying to say that you guys achieved a lot considering your lack of KP stock, which I find important in judging a forward line. Whilst Mooney and Hawkins (young) were good if you look at the other premiers two best fwds they are below average:

Better than 07,09,11 Mooney and Hawkins (young)

2024: Curnow/McKay

2022: Hawkins (prime)/Cameron

2020: Riewoldt/Lynch

2019: Riewoldt/Lynch

2018: Kennedy/Darling

2015: Buddy/Roughead

2014: Buddy/Roughead

2013: Buddy/Roughead

2008: Buddy/Roughead

2005: Hall/Goodes

2003: Lynch/Brown (young)

2002: Lynch/Brown (young)

2001: Lynch/Brown (young)

2000: Lloyd/Hird


Worse

2023 Pies

2021 Dees

2017 Richmond (Riewoldt on his own)

2016 Dogs

2012 Swans

2010 Pies

2006 Eagles

2004 Port

So whilst it is possible to win flags without star fwds, besides you guys it’s a struggle to win them. All the teams that had “worse” than you only had 1 flag in their “era”. (Except us but we added lynch later)

The rant is all fine to appease yourself, I was merely correcting you on the make up of the forward line and made my point.

HF: Ablett/Bartel Mooney Chapman
FF: Johnson Hawkins Stokes
IC: Varcoe

Went alright.

 

[Ed_Gein]

Swans whole team on paper in 05 minus Goodes and Hall was pretty average. Lots of decent players but few stars.

Leo Barry was a star. Quartermain said as much at the end of that Grand Final.

 

[deflated]

Swans whole team on paper in 05 minus Goodes and Hall was pretty average. Lots of decent players but few stars.

Craig Bolton as an elite KPD is the hill I die on. Only the two AA's in competition with high-profile stars like Scarlett and Glass or stats darlings like Bowden but he shined at the back for the Roos Swans teams.

 

[00Stinger]

Probably Geelong 07-11 was the most impressive considering what they achieved

3 Flags with no Coleman or Brownlow medalists in it and their best KPF was Mooney.

Lions, Hawks and Tigers all had ones

Stevie J and Chapman were phenomenal forwards though

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

 

[Cleansweep17]

The rant is all fine to appease yourself, I was merely correcting you on the make up of the forward line and made my point.

HF: Ablett/Bartel Mooney Chapman
FF: Johnson Hawkins Stokes
IC: Varcoe

Went alright.

Not in 08 or 10

Maybe if you had star KPF’s which the post was referring to you would’ve won them.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Stevie J and Chapman were phenomenal forwards though

Sent from my SM-S908E using Tapatalk

Stevie J was but idk about Chapman

Chapman seems to me the DeGeoy/Flying Ryan/Stringer tier rather than the C Rioli/Betts/Dusty tier.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Quite incredible the amount of wrong in one post. Hawkins part of the premiership forward line in a season in which he played 9 games and no finals. Mooney likewise somehow in the 2011 team despite playing 8 games and 0 finals that year. Not to mention Franklin still playing for Hawthorn in 2014 and 15.

And I don't know why you think forward line equals key forwards.

I think it’s a big part.

Most premiership teams especially multiple flags ones have great KPF fwds.

Hawkins and Mooney had what 1AA and 0 Coleman’s between them from 07-11. Nothing special to me.

Even a previous Geelong supporter agreed with my point.

 

[STPer18]

Stevie J was but idk about Chapman

Chapman seems to me the DeGeoy/Flying Ryan/Stringer tier rather than the C Rioli/Betts/Dusty tier.

You've admitted yourself you were too young to be watching football during Geelong's 07-11 period - this is one of those times you should just restate that and leave the comparisons out.

 

[00Stinger]

Stevie J was but idk about Chapman

Chapman seems to me the DeGeoy/Flying Ryan/Stringer tier rather than the C Rioli/Betts/Dusty tier.

Chapman was a star

 

[Cleansweep17]

You've admitted yourself you were too young to be watching football during Geelong's 07-11 period - this is one of those times you should just restate that and leave the comparisons out.

Look at his CV. It’s not top tier. It’s around the mark of the players I mentioned. Not my fault he wasn’t better

 

[Cleansweep17]

Chapman was a star

There is a “star” and a “Star” Clearly Chapman is not in the same tier as the others I’ve mentioned.

 

[ioppolo]

Melbourne 2021 forward if centre was fairly workmanlike at best, excellent midfield and defence tgough.

Fritsch is quality and Ben Brown was still a force back then.

Forward line wise it's hard to be worse than the 2006 Eagles. After Quentin Lynch who is there? Ash Hansen, Steven Armstrong, resting ruck, resting midfielder. Midfielders kicked all the goals for that team.

 

[00Stinger]

There is a “star” and a “Star” Clearly Chapman is not in the same tier as the others I’ve mentioned.

Better player than Liam Ryan/De Goey/Stringer. he leigt has more accolades than all of the three combined

Two time AA and he did win a Norm Smith medal in that epic GF in 2009

 

[Tippett2Goal]

Swans whole team on paper in 05 minus Goodes and Hall was pretty average. Lots of decent players but few stars.

How dare you talk about Norm-Smith Medallist* Lewis Roberts-Thompson like that


*NS May have been stolen by shitty voting for a big name in the losing team, but anyone who watched the game knows who the true NS medallist should have been.

 

[STPer18]

Look at his CV. It’s not top tier. It’s around the mark of the players I mentioned. Not my fault he wasn’t better

Paul Chapman:
3x Premiership
2x AA
1x BnF
1x Norm Smith

Jordan DeGoey:
1x Premiership
0x AA
0x BnF
0x Norm Smith

Liam Ryan:
1x Premiership
1x AA
0x BnF
0x Norm Smith

Jake Stringer:
1x Premiership
1x AA
0x BnF
0x Norm Smith

I know you love your AFL tables but which part am I looking for? And just because:

Paul Chapman career averages (including his two seasons at Essendon after signing at 33 years old):
19.7 disposals & 1.3 goals

Dustin Martin career averages (and plummeting):
24.4 disposals & 1.1 goals

 

[Cleansweep17]

Paul Chapman:
3x Premiership
2x AA
1x BnF
1x Norm Smith

Jordan DeGoey:
1x Premiership
0x AA
0x BnF
0x Norm Smith

Liam Ryan:
1x Premiership
1x AA
0x BnF
0x Norm Smith

Jake Stringer:
1x Premiership
1x AA
0x BnF
0x Norm Smith

I know you love your AFL tables but which part am I looking for? And just because:

Paul Chapman career averages (including his two seasons at Essendon after signing at 33 years old):
19.7 disposals & 1.3 goals

Dustin Martin career averages (and plummeting):
24.4 disposals & 1.1 goals

Yeah exactly 0-2 AAs

Now do the others that I believe are all 3+ AAs. That’s the next tier up. Johnson, C Rioli, Dusty, Betts. They also have numerous other awards on top of that.

They also were considered the best (or one of the best) at their position at some point in the comp. I don’t believe Chapman was ever that, Johnson was considered better and that’s just in his own team.

There is a clear tier difference between Star (with a capital S) and star (with a lower case S) Chapman is the latter.

It’s not a personal Geelong things, it’s a pattern with the CV’s.

 

[STPer18]

Yeah exactly 0-2 AAs

Now do the others that I believe are all 3+ AAs. That’s the next tier up. Johnson, C Rioli, Dusty, Betts. They also have numerous other awards on top of that.

They also were considered the best (or one of the best) at their position at some point in the comp. I don’t believe Chapman was ever that, Johnson was considered better and that’s just in his own team.

There is a clear tier difference between Star (with a capital S) and star (with a lower case S) Chapman is the latter.

It’s not a personal Geelong things, it’s a pattern with the CV’s.

Translation: it's the vibe.

None of Johnson, Rioli, Dustie or Betts even crack the 5x AA mark, so let's not get carried away with an arbitrary number you just plucked out of thin air. And just for the sake of curiousity what are the 'numerous other awards on top of that' that all these guys have?

 

[Cleansweep17]

Translation: it's the vibe.

None of Johnson, Rioli, Dustie or Betts even crack the 5x AA mark, so let's not get carried away with an arbitrary number you just plucked out of thin air. And just for the sake of curiousity what are the 'numerous other awards on top of that' that all these guys have?

Is Chapman better than any of those players? I don’t think you even believe that.

The other awards are Brownlow, norms, MVPs, finals MVPs, B&Fs, coaches awards, leading goal kickers, goal of the years

 

[STPer18]

The other awards are Brownlow, norms, MVPs, finals MVPs, B&Fs, coaches awards, leading goal kickers, goal of the years

Johnson, Rioli and Betts never won a Brownlow.
Chapman won a Norm Smith, Betts never did.
Johnson, Rioli and Betts never won an MVP.
Finals MVP wasn't a thing pre-2016.
Chapman won a BnF, Johnson, Rioli and Betts never won a BnF.
Martin and Rioli never won a leading goal kickers award.
Martin and Johnson never won a goal of the year, and I can't believe you count that as a serious award.

 

[The Hobo]

Worse

2004 Port

So whilst it is possible to win flags without star fwds, besides you guys it’s a struggle to win them. All the teams that had “worse” than you only had 1 flag in their “era”. (Except us but we added lynch later)

Warren Tredrea and Brendon Lade went alright mate.

 

[Cleansweep17]

Warren Tredrea and Brendon Lade went alright mate.

I was trying to be a little nice to the Geelong people. I’m fine to port above