Review Autopsy Thread - Dogs v GWS

[fronkalicious]

When you win every statistic possible comfortably and still losing, something is horribly wrong with your game plan. There is no way around it.

Mccatney stays, but I'll say it again, we desperately, desperately need a senior assistant to assess overall game style and tactical decision making. We can't go into next season with the same coaching set up. Simply can't.

 

[doggies ftw]

Emotion of the game aside and purely speaking from a tactical POV,
HOW MANY TIMES DO WE DUMBLY AND STUPIDY BOMB THE BALL TO THE TOP OF THE GOALSQUARE

WE HAD TWENTY MORE INSIDE 50'S AND WASTED EACH AND EVERY ONE

Outcoached again....

Don't think it was Macca that kicked 19 points today. We kick half decently at goal and we win by 5 +. Story of the season to be honest, honestly think if the only thing that improved in our current team was goal kicking, we'd still have 11 or so wins on the board.

Todays game pretty much summed up the season, we've been cooked for weeks and have just been playing for the end of the season TBH. Today sucked it really did, absolutely should have won that game but did pretty much everything we could to lose it.

Some very obvious problems in the current side that need to be fixed but they will be. I just keep coming back to that picture that gets thrown up every now and then "what you think success looks like" "what it actually looks like". Its been the year that we've needed to have, and its exposed a lot of problems which is a good thing. We still have to cut quite a lot of the deadwood out but our future is looking as bright as ever if you ask me.

We are building a seriously good list, Roberts is a fantastic player and will hold down the backline (with Talia) for 200+ games. Midfield is going to be ridiculously good, Bonts, Libba, Macrae, Hrovat are going to be absolute stars. Stringer is just a machine (should have won us the game but I'm not going to blame a 2nd year player for making a mistake, especially considering he's one of the few that got us into the position to even be a chance at winning, and besides Gia had about 4 chances to seal the game that he couldn't take either), 22 goals from 9 games since he came back into the team I'm pretty sure, he has been unreal, and is turning into a huge presence up forward and could genuinely be the star FF we're looking for, love that he's starting to take marks inside 50 now on top of his ridiculous ground level game. JJ and Griff have hit form, albeit at the wrong end of the season, will be back to their best next year (or in JJs case, hitting a new level) and add a hell of a lot to the team. Campbell will be a great ruckman (he's not a genuine forward though thats for sure), Cordys showing some great signs to partner up along side him. We have a very very good young core, in all parts of the ground, just need to keep turning over the players around them and getting more quality into the side, which takes time but is happening. It does not happen overnight though.

While unlikely we have a real chance at grabbing Peter Wright which would just about complete the core of the side. Boyd should not be playing next year, as good as I think Higgins has been at times this year (mostly early) not at all fussed if he leaves anymore and would probably prefer a decent draft pick anyway, surely Austins played his last game for the club, Young probably should have too. Also starting to feel we should try and get something for Grant while we can. Swap those guys with the likes of Hunter, Honey, Talia, Jones, Wood, Wallis, Roughy, Darley, Smith and were starting to look a lot lot better, those changes also dramtically improve the skill level across the board and along with some much needed improvement in the fitness side of things and the young guys getting smarter and more mature that will also help tenfold. Skills and pace should not be an issue when all the guys were looking at for the future can finally play together.

While the years been a disappointment overall and its finished on a bad note, I'm still of the opinion where not far away and it wouldn't be unheard of (probably actually more likely than not) that we just click and start playing some consistent good footy. The teams overall age is only just now starting to get into the good bracket (still the very early stages of the good bracket though). Our talls are getting to the right age, Roberts and Talia will be 22, Rough and Cordy 24, Jones and Campbell 23, Bonts and Stringer only 19 and 21 but are just freaks anyway, they are just entering the age where talls blossom. Macrae, Stringer, Hunter and Hrovat hitting their 3rd years where players start to find consistency. Wally, Dahl, Libba and Stevens going from kids into the very early stages of their prime and Smith while a little bit behind now will be back and should slot in quite easily, a new batch of draftees coming through (and going by our recent recruiting, should be some more exciting kids) and most likely some more players being traded in also in that 20-23 age bracket. Heaps of improvement in this team next year, we will (or should) be pushing the 8. If by the end of next year I'm still saying the same thing, thats when I'll start worrying but right now I'm not fussed at all about where were headed as a club.

 

[dogwatch]

On the tanking issue:
As the game ended, my initial thought was that it looked a lot like tanking. So I took the unusual step (for me) of replaying the last 10 minutes and slo-mo'd a few segments. On review I cannot honestly say it looked like a team tanking. We levelled with GWS at about the 2:40 to go mark, after seeming gone a few minutes earlier. There were only four incidents I saw that looked uncharacteristic:

• Gia's miss (at 3:30 to go) after his courageous mark - commentators were VERY suss about that one, saying he'd kick it 98/100 times!
• Gia's OOB from the wing/forward flank - he was under some pressure ... but not massive
• Gia's OOB from the pocket - a hard shot under pressure but Gia usually does well in those situations. However it would be pretty harsh to say that it was an intentional miss
• Stringer's dropped sitter of a mark with about 0:45 to go - you couldn't prove tanking on one incident like that. I'd say it was a genuine but very uncharacteristic miss. Stringer plays too much in the moment to do something like tank a mark when the game could be won off his own boot.

You could argue Gia was taking it upon himself, I suppose. Maybe he was not playing to lose but hoping for a draw (as seemed likely at the time of his final miss)? We'll never know.

But would tanking make any sense anyway? How much would we be risking for the benefit of just ONE place in the draft order? If it was proven we were deliberately tanking I doubt I'd ever buy another membership or attend another WB game. I know many others would feel the same (just as many Essendon supporters have stated they have done after the supplements scandal). Apart from that, if it was proven to be tanking we'd probably lose our first and second round draft picks for 2-3 years which would set us back about a decade (look what happened to Carlton) and even that would be getting off lightly.

As I have said many times: when it comes down to a choice between a delicious conspiracy or sheer incompetence ... go for incompetence every single time.

 

[the dog's kennel]

That was tanking. Stringer just doesn't misjudge or drop those. Numerous things that we don't do we're on display. I'm ashamed right now.

Haha, I'm not sure we were tanking for Pick 6 instead of Pick 7.

It wasn't tanking. It was s**t.

 

[Some Idiot]

When you win every statistic possible comfortably and still losing, something is horribly wrong with your game plan. There is no way around it.

Mccatney stays, but I'll say it again, we desperately, desperately need a senior assistant to assess overall game style and tactical decision making. We can't go into next season with the same coaching set up. Simply can't.

Smashed in tackles and turnovers - two pretty crucial statistics. They simply out pressured us.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

I'm literally and figuratively exhausted.

See you guys around.

 

[Unorth]

I was close to crying when Gia missed everything. And when Stringer dropped the mark...The entire stadium started to erupt. And then groaned in disappointment. God damn. Such a bad feeling. The GWS supporters that were there seemed to be mostly 90% overweight bogans. So much disappointment. Sure the season in its entirety must be reviewed, and sure we get a higher draft pick, but this one game? Shattered. Shattered for Stringer, who will either be better for that incident or worse. Shattered for Gia, who could have had the fairytale ending to his career, only to miss the lot. Shattered for Murphy, who watched one of his best mates go out on the worst possible note possible, who would have seen all the milestone games we've lost, and will probably wonder if the same awaits him. I felt shattered when Koby Stevens couldn't even make the distance. I was angry at the defence; not just the back 6. We gave them so much time and space. Our tackling was crap, so we couldn't hold them up. Our clearance work, and our contested footy, supposedly Macca's #1 priority, was nowhere to be seen. Nor has it been all season. They were missing Jeremy Cameron, Callan Ward, Jon Patton.

But I also saw Bonti. He who has waltzed into the top 5 of our list, who's undoubtedly the most clutch player we have. And boy was he good. I saw Griffen stand up with the heat on, pumping the ball inside 50 time after the time in the dying stages of the game. I saw Morris soldier on like he has for so long. I saw Stringer present, and he even kicked some set shots! Another positive is that Austin has likely played his last game for the seniors. Hopefully Young has as well.

But it's hard to focus on the good stuff after a game like that. I don't care about the pick...We will almost definitely not get Wright, nor would Carlton if they had our pick. Just a terrible feeling.

 

[Peter Wallis]

It's been a terrible year, other than a few younger players tearing it up. Can't wait for Bonts and String to get bigger tanks.

We let EVERY team score piss easy goals against us. The back 6 is a massive worry, but the defense up the ground has been appalling. Does any other team allow as many fast break goals as us?

Our structure and game plan is hopeless. 3 years and there's little cohesion on either side of the ball.

We were totally exposed for lack of pace across the ground & our collective decision making & skills even when under little pressure was appalling.

As a team we have gone backwards & although McCartney can talk the talk, the simple fact is you are judged on wins v losses & in 3 years we have gone nowhere, 21 wins from 66 games speaks for itself.

Unless we improve dramatically next year, then McCartney must go, I am sick & tired of hearing the same crap week after week. Yes we do have some talented players but we also have some spuds, we have no decent defensive KPP's without the exception of Roughead, to some degree & we have no forwards that can take pack marks or have any physical presence. Campbell & Cordy just don't cut it & never will.

Very disappointing season & with the likely improvement in GWS, its hard to see which teams other than Melbourne, St Kilda & maybe Brisbane who we will finish ahead of next year.

 

[ThirdLegUp]

Since the final siren I have gone from feeling enraged to sad to just plain despair.

I have so many things that I'm angry about I could almost break Bigfooty's bandwidth just listing them all.

Ok, to start...what an absolutely insipid and disgraceful performance that was today. This was GWS, missing about five key players, who have never won at Etihad, and us, with a retiring and much loved club champion who the players all professed to love and want to send off in style, and we put in that weak, unprofessional, passionless and just downright awful performance.

Despite being so angry I still at the same time feel a touch relieved that we lost, because we absolutely deserved it, and the players deserve to feel ashamed.

The first quarter, and the first half, and not for the first time, was just disgraceful. The way in which we have started games recently is so bad, and whilst I'm not normally in a rush to bash McCartney, the fact that this continues to be an issue is damning on him, as well as the players.

Our skill errors are embarrassing. Our kicking for goal is dreadful. Our spread...do we even have one?

This entire playing group and coaching group need to have a thorough review of everything. All of them have been given enough time and patience by the media and by us fans for losses like today to be unacceptable.

I cannot even think of more gripes to list. They're too many.

Just an utterly depressing way to finish the season. Something has to change. We've been given enough time.

Chin up leon, i know it hurts mate but you have to try and see the silver lining, the glass half full. Think of it this way. Had we come out today and smashed GWS with a display of utter glory... you would feel great...but maybe, just maybe, finihsing the year like this is EXACTLY what is needed for the club to have a good hard look at it self. players and coaches, and adress all those things you have mentioned. and many other things folks here have mentioned.

An old coach once told me while i was crying in the corner after a heartbreaking lose, literally off my own boot. (i missed the penalty in the shoot out)

"All pain is necessary son, if only to know what it is. Through you we feel it, through us the outside feels it. Tomorrow we will all be brothers, and no one will remember it was your pain in this moment that made us so." He was a great man who led us to victory many times over.

Cheer up mate, your never alone as a bulldog, expecially in pain.

 

[doggies ftw]

When you win every statistic possible comfortably and still losing, something is horribly wrong with your game plan. There is no way around it.

Mccatney stays, but I'll say it again, we desperately, desperately need a senior assistant to assess overall game style and tactical decision making. We can't go into next season with the same coaching set up. Simply can't.

Don't think its a coaching issue when you put yourself in the position to have 40 shots at goal, you should win the game. Laughable accuracy in front of goal killed us, as it has many many times this year.

Defence all over the ground has also been s**t but were still a work in progress, the teams made up mostly of flashy match winning kids who don't exactly have the whole defend first mentality drilled into them yet, and guys from the Eade era where there was always an attack first mentality.

I'd say we can and probably will go in with the same coaching set up next year, besides maybe a small addition here or there (such as Gia).

 

[Zgope1]

Everyone's so sad. That last half was scintillating. There was stacks to like in a dead rubber. Yeah wins are nice but it was a cracking spectacle that I loved watching. Surely that's why we watch footy... To enjoy ourselves. So we didn't get the chocolates, life goes on. We'll get them again one day

 

[doggies ftw]

Chin up leon, i know it hurts mate but you have to try and see the silver lining, the glass half full. Think of it this way. Had we come out today and smashed GWS with a display of utter glory... you would feel great...but maybe, just maybe, finihsing the year like this is EXACTLY what is needed for the club to have a good hard look at it self. players and coaches, and adress all those things you have mentioned. and many other things folks here have mentioned.

An old coach once told me while i was crying in the corner after a heartbreaking lose, literally off my own boot. (i missed the penalty in the shoot out)

"All pain is necessary son, if only to know what it is. Through you we feel it, through us the outside feels it. Tomorrow we will all be brothers, and no one will remember it was your pain in this moment that made us so." He was a great man who led us to victory many times over.

Cheer up mate, your never alone as a bulldog, expecially in pain.

Agree with this, the finish to last season instilled some false hope and probably made a few players think that things would just naturally happen and they'd be winning games week in week out. The finish to this season shows them theres still a heap of hard work needed to get there.

 

[BarryMorgan]

Good riddance Higgins you overrated, egotistical coward.

 

[Scary_Foot_9]

I get that people are angry, I am.

Losing sucks. It's the ******* worst.

But we had at least 34 scoring shots. They had 24. Smashed them in CP's, clearences, centre clearences and consequently I50's, a team that is going no where wouldn't do this.

I wish more than ******* anything that Jake had taken that mark. I hope like * it doesn't haunt him and only makes him stronger.

Anyway I wrote this in the has this season been a success thread but think it's even more apposite after today.



Areas of our game have improved massively this year.

Ball movement, forward structure (understanding between Crameri and Stringer in particular where to lead to how to use space) and outside spread.

At times we've looked fearsome going forward. And thats a good thing because the more goals you score the more likely you are to win.

Our defensive structure and pressure at the ball remains a mess however. Teams score against us far to easily, I'm hoping as guys who are first and second year players mature (I'm thinking J-Mac in particular) they won't switch off as much, but it needs to impressed upon them the importance of improving this area if we are to win more games. Cooney and Higgins (might be gone anyway) who aren't exactly strong two way runners and hardened tacklers probably aren't helping in this regard.

It's one of the reasons why one of our best endurance athletes who aplies defensive pressure Jason Tutt needs to be in this side (I'm going insane writing this again).

It's not just as simple getting better key defenders altough they clearly need to improve in performance as well. Team defence. Christ I'm sounding like Ross Lyon. Kill me.

 

[Mofra]

Don't think its a coaching issue when you put yourself in the position to have 40 shots at goal, you should win the game. Laughable accuracy in front of goal killed us, as it has many many times this year.

This x 1000

It's not often you have that many shots on goal and lose a game of football. We really do need to re-jig the list and start to weed out those with poor footskills.

 

[Easty]

I'm super disappointed in 20 Western Bulldog players. Jake Stringer was absolutely gutted after the siren and not 1 bloke got around him to tell him to keep his head up. That really irritated me.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

I have nothing to add that hasn't already been said.

Just feel sick in the guts. We can get used to this. We'll fight and fight, and we'll be a bloody good team in 2-3 years, but it won't be good enough.

That's just footy for us as Dogs supporters. They toy with us. "Here ya go. Juuuuust kidding."

Thanks to Igloo for putting up with me for the day

 

[Unorth]

Also I don't even know how many times in an autopsy thread I've stated that we need to invest in at least one goal kicking coach. I don't know if I expected that to change throughout the course of the last couple of months of the season. Surely the coaching staff will recognise the need to address this area though. Surely.

 

[doggies ftw]

Everyone's so sad. That last half was scintillating. There was stacks to like in a dead rubber. Yeah wins are nice but it was a cracking spectacle that I loved watching. Surely that's why we watch footy... To enjoy ourselves. So we didn't get the chocolates, life goes on. We'll get them again one day

Yeah it was fantastic to watch, after a pretty large night last night and then that first half I was pretty much dead at half time and ready to go home, but was right up and about again in that second half, with the rest of the crowd too. It was just a genuinely great half of footy to watch, too bad the last minute or two didn't go a little bit better though, otherwise it would probably be being talked about as a cracking win, even if it was just GWS but they did have a lot to play for (as you could see by their celebrations after the game).

Was sitting on level 2 behind the GWS cheersquad (or cheermember anyway). They would not shut up with their shitty ******* chants all game, thought it was hilarious in the second half whenever they started up the bulldog supporters around them would start up and just completely drown them out, loved it.

 

[Igloo]

While there wasn't a lot of pressure from us on GWS for the whole game, there were two players in the end killing themselves to try and get the win. Libba and Griffen busted their balls repeatedly in that last quarter.

Hopefully Stringer puts that missed mark behind him. He was excellent today.

Everyone's so sad. That last half was scintillating. There was stacks to like in a dead rubber. Yeah wins are nice but it was a cracking spectacle that I loved watching. Surely that's why we watch footy... To enjoy ourselves. So we didn't get the chocolates, life goes on. We'll get them again one day

It was the most i've been invested in a game i'm at live in quite a while.

 

[Ted's Robot]

That was a bad loss, but if we had managed to get a close win we would have stolen it. We didn't deserve to win that game, poor defense, shocking turnovers and once again terrible kicking for goal. We should have won by at least 5 goals with the inside 50's we had but we didn't.

No point dwelling on the loss, in the overall scheme of things it shows how much work we have in front of us to even think about making the 8.

 

[yaydogs]

I think Im still in shock...
GWS were good but some of the errors tonight is not what I expect to see at AFL level

My hope from all of this is that it spurs the club to be aggressive in the evaluation of our list and at the trade table. For too long we have just sat back, we need to look at what we need to succeed and get it no matter what!!

 

[Running Dog]

As I have said many times: when it comes down to a choice between a delicious conspiracy or sheer incompetence ... go for incompetence every single time.

That would be Occam's Razor, a similar theory to the idea that the fewer the moving parts, the less there is to go wrong! At least incompetence can coexist with effort.

 

[doggies ftw]

This x 1000

It's not often you have that many shots on goal and lose a game of football. We really do need to re-jig the list and start to weed out those with poor footskills.

Yeah we absolutely do. But honestly when I look at the large list of kids who I see taking us forward. Macrae, Hunter, Stringer, Hrovat, Libba, Wally, Bonts, Honey, Rough, Roberts, Koby, Talia, Smith, Dahl, Darley, JJ etc besides a couple of them they all have good - very good footskills, maybe not elite footskills and we do need to get a couple more of those types into the list but the large majority are good in this regard IMO. With better fitness bases, improvement in our outside spread, maturing and becoming more seasoned footballers meaning better decision making etc, we should be okay. Any new players we bring in though, doesn't matter if they are a ruckman, a midfielder or a KPP they must have at the very least good kicks on them. No more Smith or Talia types (who might be poor kicks but more than make up for it in other areas, also on Talia the more I see of him in the VFL this year the more confident I get that his kicking is not going to hold him back).

I just see a lot of improvement in this area coming naturally as we continue to turn over the list.

 

[acker]

When you win every statistic possible comfortably and still losing, something is horribly wrong with your game plan. There is no way around it.

Mccatney stays, but I'll say it again, we desperately, desperately need a senior assistant to assess overall game style and tactical decision making. We can't go into next season with the same coaching set up. Simply can't.

A lot of our possessions were short and indirect, our opponents moved the ball more quickly and less hesitantly as we did