Toast VFL Flag!!!!!!!

[LondonBulldog]

When you see the way Jong played and has played all year you wonder the logic in keeping Boyd a 32 year old. To be honest after 32 is reserved for champions, Boyd been a good worker who the game has past now. Even Will, a good warrior yet next year should only share the ruck with Campbell. If a good trade comes, then grab it. It time to change the guard, otherwise you are just delaying progress. Cooney should be under threat as well. Just don't get enough out of one of our highest paid players. Higgins time to move on. Seniors have been down the bottom for 3 years straight, shake it up, turn them over. To me winning the VFL proves that you could take 10 out of our current seniors and swap them for 10 VFL and the team will be the same. Good position to be in. Everyone should start next year with no favourites, no previous form counted, its a new beginning. Are the club up to it? We don't owe any players anything.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

When you see the way Jong played and has played all year you wonder the logic in keeping Boyd a 32 year old. To be honest after 32 is reserved for champions, Boyd been a good worker who the game has past now. Even Will, a good warrior yet next year should only share the ruck with Campbell. If a good trade comes, then grab it. It time to change the guard, otherwise you are just delaying progress. Cooney should be under threat as well. Just don't get enough out of one of our highest paid players. Higgins time to move on. Seniors have been down the bottom for 3 years straight, shake it up, turn them over. To me winning the VFL proves that you could take 10 out of our current seniors and swap them for 10 VFL and the team will be the same. Good position to be in. Everyone should start next year with no favourites, no previous form counted, its a new beginning. Are the club up to it? We don't owe any players anything.

Boyd is still a leader and one of the hardest trainers on the list. And if we lose Higgins, after losing Wililams and Gia, and Goodes probably gone as well without Boyd suddenly we have lost a wealth of experience older headsand the like from our list.
But yes, if he played more than 10-15 games for our seniors next year I'd be very surprised. Jong, Smith, and Wallis had an underrated year, all will be more important than Boyd.

 

[dogwatch]

Some observations from yesterday.

JJ > tutt (no brainer) Agree but Tutt was quite valuable too. I would not burn down VUWO if we retained Tutt, nor would I be upset if we let him go. I can't see he has a high ceiling so I'm inclined to let him go but we would certainly want to get someone else who can break the lines because there aren't many in the seniors that can! His ability to break the lines yesterday really hurt Box Hill. JJ I'm very happy with and he's just re-signed until 2017.
Grant > Dickson (grant was busy and dangerous. Big improvement from last week). Neither impressed me too much TBH. I have been a patient if not vociferous advocate of Grant but he still can't put together consistently good games even in the VFL after 7 years on the list. I'm now leaning toward letting him go while we he still has some value. He may thrive in a new environment but that's OK if we can get something in return. Dickson was signed up this year for a further two years so I don't think he's going anywhere. If Higgins and Grant go (along with Gia) and if Stringer spends more time up the field he may get another opportunity in 2015 but he will have to do better than his 2014 form. I still think Dickson could be a 30+ goal HF.
Campbell > cordy (campbell was excellent
Campbell > Lowden Campbell was BoG for mine. Not sure where Cordy will end up but I'd like to see us play most games with two ruckmen next year - Campbell and Minson for preference.
Redpath > grimley Yes, I'd like to see us persevere with Jack. Give him a 1-2 year senior contract.
Talia > Austin In the long term yes, but not yesterday. Austin played one of the better games I've seen him play (not saying a lot I know). Talia was solid. I'd probably still delist Austin and keep Talia who has much more upside IMO.
Jong > everyone He is an exciting prospect. Well done to the talent scouts and coaches in getting him to where he is. Love his attack and his attitude. His explosive pace and strength are Cooney/Griffen-like and desperately needed by the senior side. Yesterday I'd have Campbell and Goodes narrowly ahead of him and maybe even Hallahan, but all four were excellent ... there was not much between them.

Good talking points Fronk. See above in red for my views.

 

[timtamWB]

Just on Grant, while he missed a few shots, his work to actually get the opportunity to have those shots was very good. I thought his work rate was pretty good, and he's a player who plays better at AFL level rather than VFL level.

 

[dogwatch]

Just on Grant, while he missed a few shots, his work to actually get the opportunity to have those shots was very good. I thought his work rate was pretty good, and he's a player who plays better at AFL level rather than VFL level.

I challenge this whole concept of "better at AFL level than VFL". I think it's a myth and illogical.
The truth is Grant is too inconsistent and unpredictable. His best is very good but I'd rather have someone who you can count on every week.
If we do keep him I hope he turns the corner but I'm growing ever more sceptical. I'd rather turn the list over a bit more...

Let's try a hypothetical:
If it was a case of the last spot on the list and a choice between the two, would you keep Grant, or take Foster with our final F/S pick? (Ignoring for the moment that they play different roles and that we might also get some trade value out of Grant, e.g. a pick upgrade). I think Grant has had lots of opportunity and IMO it would be worth trying an unpolished prospect like Foster.

 

[TempleKelvington]

When you see the way Jong played and has played all year you wonder the logic in keeping Boyd a 32 year old. To be honest after 32 is reserved for champions, Boyd been a good worker who the game has past now. Even Will, a good warrior yet next year should only share the ruck with Campbell. If a good trade comes, then grab it. It time to change the guard, otherwise you are just delaying progress. Cooney should be under threat as well. Just don't get enough out of one of our highest paid players. Higgins time to move on. Seniors have been down the bottom for 3 years straight, shake it up, turn them over. To me winning the VFL proves that you could take 10 out of our current seniors and swap them for 10 VFL and the team will be the same. Good position to be in. Everyone should start next year with no favourites, no previous form counted, its a new beginning. Are the club up to it? We don't owe any players anything.

I don't mind your thinking, but I like to have some older heads about the team. It's like the Footscray team, with Goodes, Primal and Russell. They just add experience and leadership and they can handle the load of a full season. I don't think we need to go crazy and move on the old guard too soon. That said I can see Boydy playing a smaller role next year. Maybe similar to what Gia did this year.

 

[timtamWB]

I challenge this whole concept of "better at AFL level than VFL". I think it's a myth and illogical.
The truth is Grant is too inconsistent and unpredictable. His best is very good but I'd rather have someone who you can count on every week.
If we do keep him I hope he turns the corner but I'm growing ever more sceptical. I'd rather turn the list over a bit more...

Let's try a hypothetical:
If it was a case of the last spot on the list and a choice between the two, would you keep Grant, or take Foster with our final F/S pick? (Ignoring for the moment that they play different roles and that we might also get some trade value out of Grant, e.g. a pick upgrade). I think Grant has had lots of opportunity and IMO it would be worth trying an unpolished prospect like Foster.

I agree, he's definitely inconsistent and unpredictable. Thing is, he's never really performed at VFL level too well, but has numerous times at AFL level, including being BOG at AFL level. So it's either truth that he's better at AFL level, or it's just a coincidence. Or a conspiracy. I blame the illuminati.

I would answer that, but I don't know anything about Foster, so I'm not going to say something that I know nothing about. But, unless I'm mistaken, the leading TAC goal kicker doesn't really ever do much at AFL level. I'll let someone who's better qualified than me answer that hypothetical though.

 

[BallaratBulldog]

Can't wait for First Dogs cartoon!

Wish the poster was a bit bigger in resolution for my monitor. I guess it works as two tiles.

 

[dogwatch]

I agree, he's definitely inconsistent and unpredictable. Thing is, he's never really performed at VFL level too well, but has numerous times at AFL level, including being BOG at AFL level. So it's either truth that he's better at AFL level, or it's just a coincidence. Or a conspiracy. I blame the illuminati.

I would answer that, but I don't know anything about Foster, so I'm not going to say something that I know nothing about. But, unless I'm mistaken, the leading TAC goal kicker doesn't really ever do much at AFL level. I'll let someone who's better qualified than me answer that hypothetical though.

You're a disgrace to BF!!

 

[immortalmike]

You're a disgrace to BF!!

Yeah I have no idea who timtamWB thinks he is being all reasonable and deferential. This is Bigfooty where you speak loudly and confidently about things you have no right even understanding. And if you can cost someone their job along the way, even better.

 

[LondonBulldog]

I don't mind your thinking, but I like to have some older heads about the team. It's like the Footscray team, with Goodes, Primal and Russell. They just add experience and leadership and they can handle the load of a full season. I don't think we need to go crazy and move on the old guard too soon. That said I can see Boydy playing a smaller role next year. Maybe similar to what Gia did this year.

Murphy, Morris and Griffen there is some experience. We need to move with the times. Would Boyd get a game at Port, not a chance. We for some reason are way to careful with moving players on.

 

[immortalmike]

Murphy, Morris and Griffen there is some experience. We need to move with the times. Would Boyd get a game at Port, not a chance. We for some reason are way to careful with moving players on.

Would Cornes get a game with us?

 

[TempleKelvington]

Murphy, Morris and Griffen there is some experience. We need to move with the times. Would Boyd get a game at Port, not a chance. We for some reason are way to careful with moving players on.

All teams have an older brigade. We only have 3 older guys now. Sure we have some guys who are mature who can carry on, but it's not like we half the side in that category. We don't know what happens next year. We may lose Murph and Morris to retirement, but I think it's possible they could both stay. But if they go, could we end up a bit light on? GWS and GC are good examples of being too young and needing to import older guys. Melbourne went hard at one point and left the cupboard too bare, so much so they took Crossy from us.

We are pretty young list you know.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Would Cornes get a game with us?

You mean play alongside his old mate Minno?

 

[immortalmike]

You mean play alongside his old mate Minno?

Ha didn't even think about it from that angle.

 

[ThirdLegUp]

I think it's a myth and illogical.

this is an actual thing. has more to do with player abilities that are no as tangable as, how well he kicks or handballs, marks or speed. but rather what is taking place in their minds. the speed of the mind must match the speed of the environment. the vast majority of players are slower of mind, and cannot compete at the faster environment of the AFL until they learn. think Austin. but every now and then, there are those who are faster of mind, and struggle to function when their environment makes them slow down. Example, i walk and do things very fast..i dead set HATE walking anywhere with my wife, who is a plodder, i have to physically slow myself down, it feels awkward and off, where she stares at an object, i have seen it, analysed it and am moving on, but no, i have to wait for her to catch up, after about 15 minutes, i'm so frustrated my mind shuts off, and i don't care where we are or where we are going, just wake me when we get there. This is Grant.

A VFL grand final is pretty much an afl home and away game. I'm not surprised grant was able to exploit the tempo straight from the start. Had he kicked straight, we would all be saying the game was over when grant kicked 4 in the first.

 

[BEaston]

Some observations from yesterday.

JJ > tutt (no brainer)
Grant > Dickson (grant was busy and dangerous. Big improvement from last week).
Campbell > cordy (campbell was excellent
Campbell > Lowden
Redpath > grimley
Talia > Austin
Jong > everyone

I know you hate Tutt fronk but the other ones you've listed are way more in the 'no brainer' category than JJ > Tutt. Seriously, Tutt's output was not that far off what JJ produced. You've been drinking too much hater-ade. It's on the shelf next to the kool-aid.

 

[lindsay_bulldogs]

this is an actual thing. has more to do with player abilities that are no as tangable as, how well he kicks or handballs, marks or speed. but rather what is taking place in their minds. the speed of the mind must match the speed of the environment. the vast majority of players are slower of mind, and cannot compete at the faster environment of the AFL until they learn. think Austin. but every now and then, there are those who are faster of mind, and struggle to function when their environment makes them slow down. Example, i walk and do things very fast..i dead set HATE walking anywhere with my wife, who is a plodder, i have to physically slow myself down, it feels awkward and off, where she stares at an object, i have seen it, analysed it and am moving on, but no, i have to wait for her to catch up, after about 15 minutes, i'm so frustrated my mind shuts off, and i don't care where we are or where we are going, just wake me when we get there. This is Grant.

A VFL grand final is pretty much an afl home and away game. I'm not surprised grant was able to exploit the tempo straight from the start. Had he kicked straight, we would all be saying the game was over when grant kicked 4 in the first.

Maybe its the speed he is taking that makes it seem slow. Seriously a good player is a good player at any level. An A grader walks into local footy and is an absolute machine. If Rioli had a bit more touch he would have torn us a new one.

 

[Next Waiting]

this is an actual thing. has more to do with player abilities that are no as tangable as, how well he kicks or handballs, marks or speed. but rather what is taking place in their minds. the speed of the mind must match the speed of the environment. the vast majority of players are slower of mind, and cannot compete at the faster environment of the AFL until they learn. think Austin. but every now and then, there are those who are faster of mind, and struggle to function when their environment makes them slow down. Example, i walk and do things very fast..i dead set HATE walking anywhere with my wife, who is a plodder, i have to physically slow myself down, it feels awkward and off, where she stares at an object, i have seen it, analysed it and am moving on, but no, i have to wait for her to catch up, after about 15 minutes, i'm so frustrated my mind shuts off, and i don't care where we are or where we are going, just wake me when we get there. This is Grant.

A VFL grand final is pretty much an afl home and away game. I'm not surprised grant was able to exploit the tempo straight from the start. Had he kicked straight, we would all be saying the game was over when grant kicked 4 in the first.

There was a rugby player similar to this. You'd never select him based on Super 12 (at the time) form but come test match time he was always amongst the best players on the ground. Where he perhaps differs from Grant is that he was consistently amongst the best players on the ground.
PS. I'm not sure a plodding wife is a particularly good example because they're all plodders who look endlessly at the most uninteresting things. Next you'll be telling us you don't like shopping...

 

[fronkalicious]

I know you hate Tutt fronk but the other ones you've listed are way more in the 'no brainer' category than JJ > Tutt. Seriously, Tutt's output was not that far off what JJ produced. You've been drinking too much hater-ade. It's on the shelf next to the kool-aid.

Maybe I could mix the hater-ade with the kool-aid and come up with some sort of mid strength beverage? Igloo-ade?

 

[ThirdLegUp]

Maybe its the speed he is taking that makes it seem slow. Seriously a good player is a good player at any level. An A grader walks into local footy and is an absolute machine. If Rioli had a bit more touch he would have torn us a new one.

No sorry, simply not true for all players. Rioli is one thing, Grant is another. Grant will never be an A grader at all levels, but can be an A grader at the top flight by exploiting his quick mind at that level, where his assets are actually a hindrance when all your team mates are slow to react, to your movement and your intended action when you have it. Dahl could be said to have had a similar impact where as no one was interested in him before he exploded onto the AFL level. He was a perfect fit for it. We get stuck in trying to match players with our gameplan, which is where my dig on Macca is. Grant will be of no service to use unless we are prepared to design a gameplan around his assets, which is (sorry for the coaching terms) Predictive impact, B-centric ball movement, economic high yield output.

Macca has no use for these types in his game plan

 

[ThirdLegUp]

There was a rugby player similar to this. You'd never select him based on Super 12 (at the time) form but come test match time he was always amongst the best players on the ground. Where he perhaps differs from Grant is that he was consistently amongst the best players on the ground.
PS. I'm not sure a plodding wife is a particularly good example because they're all plodders who look endlessly at the most uninteresting things. Next you'll be telling us you don't like shopping...

Not for her, no LOL

 

[JTCWBFC]

Just watching the replay. Redpath's mark on Shoenmakers in the first quarter was awesome! Just what we need in the seniors. Genuine contested mark.

 

[Doggies7]

Box Hill are just lucky Clay Smith and to a lesser extent Lower weren't available. Game would have been over by half time had Clay been in the guts

 

[Rockford18sx2]

Was at the game and loved the first and last quarter for obvious reasons.

Russell's contribution has gone a little unnoticed by many. He and Goodes were our 2 best early. He did make some costly turn overs later on but overall he would probably be in the best 5 of our players.

I also thought Dickson was solid and showed intensity when he was around the football. His goal from about 45m in the last was telling of his goal nouse.

The whipping boy, Austin played a solid 2nd half.

Jones going back and slotting a goal from 50m to seal the game was a sign of him taking responsibilty. You could see for a split second he initially looked at passing deeper inside 50 but knew the kick would have needed to have been perfect to hit the player. It was like something clicked, he realised he has the ability, and he was not afraid to go BANG! It was a real telling moment for him.

Overall, wouldn't have wanted to spent my Sunday any other way. What a day.