Andrews Government preparing for backflips

[Pessimistic]

Individual projects are now done in a few months, if not weeks, with the road traffic often only being shut out for a few days - bridge is assembled and rolled into place.

Was once unfortunate enough to go through murrumbeena in peak time.

Cars backed up each way for hundreds of metres. When a few trains have passed and the gates finally go up, the first two cars want to turn right and then, the gate comes down. Youd think something could be done without even doing a grade seperation

 

[Slax]

The main problem with Victoria, is its full of Victorians. As someone who's GST taxes props the joint up I wonder if there's a complete functioning brain in the whole state

You really don't read you Federal budget papers well do you, Victoria currently gets back $0.88 in the dollar of GST.

Is the secessionist movement growing again in WA?

 

[louismaxwell]

You really don't read you Federal budget papers well do you, Victoria currently gets back $0.88 in the dollar of GST.

Is the secessionist movement growing again in WA?

Im a Victorian and its even obvious to me Western Australia is being short changed , they are almost the sole driver of the countrys wealth, therefore its only fair monies from Victoria, Tasmania, and South Australia should be taken off these states and redirected to WA

 

[moistie]

Repudiating EastWest for no good reason was one of the most scandalously irresponsible actions have ever seen a political party take in an election campaign.

Have they released the contract they're tearing up yet? If not why not?

An $18 billion contract signed a government a month out from an election they knew they were going to lose solely for the purpose of providing a wedge to use in the election as well as a poison pill for the new government to deal with. Greasing the palms of the Libs mates in Lend Lease was a handy bonus for them too post politics I'm sure.

But let's throw some faux indignation at a two week old government involved in negotiations to invalidate the contract. This is an OUTRAGE!

 

[Bunk Moreland]

They need to get moving on level crossings now as January is the optimum time to do them with no school traffic and little work.

Needs to do at least one this summer as a symbol

 

[Pessimistic]

Im a Victorian and its even obvious to me Western Australia is being short changed , they are almost the sole driver of the countrys wealth, therefore its only fair monies from Victoria, Tasmania, and South Australia should be taken off these states and redirected to WA

Why stop there, give it all to the kalgoorlie shire

Bloody perth parasites

 

[GuruJane]

Happy to stand corrected, but I recall somewhere in the campaign hearing that it was an 8 year plan to remove 50 crossings and that the large majority would be removed in the second term, not the first. Therefore, how many are removed in this term will be interesting to see.

Jiska, does the removal of local level crossings appear on Rod Eddington's infrastructure list?

 

[Gough]

Gosh Jane, you've found a thread outside of the boats one to spew your venom. I started one called who will defend this government, and I haven't seen you in there. I would have thought as the biggest pompom waver for our PM you might want to give it a go.

 

[GuruJane]

Don't be silly.

Modelling suggests it would not fix congestion problems and the cost benefit could not justify 18 billion.

That's the troglodyte stupidity that was pedalled about city link and westgate. Would you think both of those should be demolished?

 

[Pessimistic]

That's the troglodyte stupidity that was pedalled about city link and westgate. Would you think both of those should be demolished?

Well citylink certainly caused a westgate bottlneck which had to be fixed at public expense

No doubt the eastwest would have been the same

 

[romeoh]

Jiska, does the removal of local level crossings appear on Rod Eddington's infrastructure list?

Removal of the level crossings will make a significant difference with traffic movement in Melbourne. Bring it on.

 

[romeoh]

That's the troglodyte stupidity that was pedalled about city link and westgate. Would you think both of those should be demolished?

At peak hour yes indeed. They only really work outside of peak hour-so what's the point-might as well get on the trains-which are faster even with our limited services.
The Westgate -try living in Point Cook and getting onto the freeway-just leave yourself lots of time. These roads always have to start and end in a bottleneck-so it doesn't solve the traffic problems.

 

[GuruJane]

Well citylink certainly caused a westgate bottlneck which had to be fixed at public expense

No doubt the eastwest would have been the same

Oh - you think both westgate and citylink should never have been built and now should be demolished to remove bottlenecks.

ffs Pess you are posting so much BS these days.

Example:

Authorities make aver quick job of level crossings these days. It will be even better with economies of scsle

If the äuthorities"make very quick jobs of level crossings these days Pess, why did Labor out them over two terms? Why didn't Libs remove them in the last term? So much c*rap.

 

[GuruJane]

At peak hour yes indeed. They only really work outside of peak hour-so what's the point-might as well get on the trains-which are faster even with our limited services.
The Westgate -try living in Point Cook and getting onto the freeway-just leave yourself lots of time. These roads always have to start and end in a bottleneck-so it doesn't solve the traffic problems.

Oh, so you too agree westgate and citylink should never have been built and now should be demolished to remove bottlenecks. How about Tullamarine freeway and Monash?

 

[Gough]

How is your day to day commute Jane? In Adelaide.

 

[Bodicifer]

The unions are certainly rejoicing! Some bird from the ACTU on the radio this morning going on about how militant the companies are blah blah blah...they believe their own lies this mob! CFMEU morons shutting out workers at ALDI yet when the company locks down it's plant for a day as the union called a strike, it's a terrible thing for workers and their families and dogs and cats. HYPOCRITS

 

[Bodicifer]

Oh, so you too agree westgate and citylink should never have been built and now should be demolished to remove bottlenecks. How about Tullamarine freeway and Monash?

Why can't we all just sit in a circle around a tree and make flying machines so we don't need roads anymore

 

[mottrain]

Oh - you think both westgate and citylink should never have been built and now should be demolished to remove bottlenecks.

ffs Pess you are posting so much BS these days.

Example:



If the äuthorities"make very quick jobs of level crossings these days Pess, why did Labor out them over two terms? Why didn't Libs remove them in the last term? So much c*rap.

It took three to four months to do the two out my way (well past it actually by five or 6 ks) in Nuna and Ringwood. The big one that they did when these things first started getting removed in Box Hill took 6 weeks with a massive workforce bigger than the ones used now and was chaotic in the short term although they did it in January.

The roads above now have bitching because of congestion. Can say they definately should not have been built .

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

They need to get moving on level crossings now as January is the optimum time to do them with no school traffic and little work.

Needs to do at least one this summer as a symbol

None are going to be done this january. There is a lot more work that goes into it than a 6 week shutdown of trains.

 

[laam]

I don't usually post on this board just read a lot, but thought I could give some info on the grade separations as I'm an engineer that has worked on 2 of the previous ones and currently involved in bidding for the new work.

Grade separations also benefit rail as there is a limit for how long each peak the boom gates can be down, this limits the number of trains that can be run. The grade separations are critical to this. The city loop capacity will be the limiting factor on the number of trains that can be run shortly. Metro Rail Link is critical to this.

There are four grade separations currently out to tender. We believe the current government will progress with these
Burke Rd Glen Iris
North Rd Ormond
Main Rd St Albans
Blackburn Rd Blackburn

There is a separate proposal to government to build these four along the Dandenong route over two years, one shutdown each Christmas. This progressed under the liberals but without enough time before caretaker period. We believe the new government will continue with these as its a good look for a new gov to award 8 grade separations so quickly.
Clayton Rd
Murumbeena Rd
Centre Rd
Koornang Rd

The construction process for this generally involves the shutdown of the road for 1 week with busing for the rail over several weeks. These projects are where possible constructed adjacent to the existing rail, this keeps the existing line open for as long as possible with everything completed and a small switch over in the tracks completed at each tie in. This can take anything from a a few days to several weeks depending on how much available land is adjacent to the tracks.

The road bridge foundations are put in on overnight road closures and the main road is closed while the bridge is cast on ground. Once this has adequate strength, a few days to a week. the road is reopened and excavation can begin under the road.

Timeframe for these projects is about 6 months design work after contract award and 6 months construction after that. Give or take a few months. All shutdowns are done over the Christmas new year period to minimise disruptions.

The engineering industry is very nervous, most consultants are desperate for work. Most of the industry felt EWL would still go ahead but more are having doubts now. It's an interesting one for Labour. If the penalties are high enough and they can't reuse the Abbott cash then it gets to the stage that you might as well build it, then whenever there are problems with the project, and there will be, terrible traffic forcasts, they can forever use this as a political tool to bash the Liberals. Similar to what they have done with desal.

 

[moistie]

Oh, so you too agree westgate and citylink should never have been built and now should be demolished to remove bottlenecks. How about Tullamarine freeway and Monash?

A classic example of a strawman argument. Yew iz agenst one road sew yew want ALL ROADS DESTRUCTIONED!!!"11

 

[GuruJane]

I don't usually post on this board just read a lot, but thought I could give some info on the grade separations as I'm an engineer that has worked on 2 of the previous ones and currently involved in bidding for the new work.

Grade separations also benefit rail as there is a limit for how long each peak the boom gates can be down, this limits the number of trains that can be run. The grade separations are critical to this. The city loop capacity will be the limiting factor on the number of trains that can be run shortly. Metro Rail Link is critical to this.

There are four grade separations currently out to tender. We believe the current government will progress with these
Burke Rd Glen Iris
North Rd Ormond
Main Rd St Albans
Blackburn Rd Blackburn

There is a separate proposal to government to build these four along the Dandenong route over two years, one shutdown each Christmas. This progressed under the liberals but without enough time before caretaker period. We believe the new government will continue with these as its a good look for a new gov to award 8 grade separations so quickly.
Clayton Rd
Murumbeena Rd
Centre Rd
Koornang Rd

The construction process for this generally involves the shutdown of the road for 1 week with busing for the rail over several weeks. These projects are where possible constructed adjacent to the existing rail, this keeps the existing line open for as long as possible with everything completed and a small switch over in the tracks completed at each tie in. This can take anything from a a few days to several weeks depending on how much available land is adjacent to the tracks.

The road bridge foundations are put in on overnight road closures and the main road is closed while the bridge is cast on ground. Once this has adequate strength, a few days to a week. the road is reopened and excavation can begin under the road.

Timeframe for these projects is about 6 months design work after contract award and 6 months construction after that. Give or take a few months. All shutdowns are done over the Christmas new year period to minimise disruptions.

Interesting and informative p[ost., Thank you.

The engineering industry is very nervous, most consultants are desperate for work. Most of the industry felt EWL would still go ahead but more are having doubts now. It's an interesting one for Labour. If the penalties are high enough and they can't reuse the Abbott cash then it gets to the stage that you might as well build it,

I can't find the level crossing demolitions in Eddington's long list of infrastructure to dos.

EW is a rolls royce project. With eastern now linked all the way to Rosebud, extending it to the west is screaming to be done along with the Tullamarine project. It's a no brainer for a modern progressive state like the ones previous progressive Labor govts Cain, Kirner, Bracks and Brumby used to run.

Daniel would be wise to find a way to do it. Throwing it under the bus would make him truly the Mayor of Victoria as someone commented during the campaign.

then whenever there are problems with the project, and there will be, terrible traffic forecasts, they can forever use this as a political tool to bash the Liberals. Similar to what they have done with desal.

Well there were terrible forecasts about every arterial improvement I have lived through in attempts to stop development, and then there were forever complains from the same people afterwards.

If this is the way Daniel goes, he will end up presiding over a rust bucket.

 

[Pessimistic]

I couldnt see an unambiguous reference in eddingtons list re level crosssings. But it really is a no brainer.

Also the concentration on the city centre in melbourne planning is evident - lots of trams etc west of warrigal rd, bugger all east of it.

The often raised plans to make a second transport hub around chadstone seem to have a lot of merit

I hate trams on busy arterial roads but where they have a dedicated reserve they are fantastic.

Oh - you think both westgate and citylink should never have been built and now should be demolished to remove bottlenecks.

ffs Pess you are posting so much BS these days.

Example:



If the äuthorities"make very quick jobs of level crossings these days Pess, why did Labor out them over two terms? Why didn't Libs remove them in the last term? So much c*rap.

I was referring to how well the public service (with private contractors in alliance) perform these once the politicians give the go ahead.
I knw it doesnt fit in with your (might i say pessimistic) view of the world but these projects really are worlds best practice.

I wasnt referring to performance or non performance of pollies. Thats pretty well documented.


So what should we judge andrews on re rail crossings, given the target is 50, and a handful are already in process fron the naphine part of the lib govt.

50 is perhaps an eight fold increase on the last eight years. If they get 80% with the balance in planning at the 2022 election id say thats a pass mark.

Contingent on the funding being realised from the sale of the port assets

Also I find it intersting you are judging Andrews on 2 weeks of government. Hes an unknown charcter not a w***er like abbott so shouldnt we wait and see a bit ?

 

[romeoh]

Oh, so you too agree westgate and citylink should never have been built and now should be demolished to remove bottlenecks. How about Tullamarine freeway and Monash?

Yep get rid of them all-public transport is the only way to carry the volume-have you seen London, Paris, New York- brilliant metro systems-the only way to go.
The Monash-lol commonly referred to as the Monash carpark-that one? Roads have their place but trains is the answer in Melbourne-very simple.

 

[GuruJane]

Yes. And no. It was scandalously irresponsible of the Liberals to sign a contract days before going in to caretaker mode and to write billions of compensation into the contract given the polls were indicating they were getting thrown out. They basically stuffed Victorians over. It's like getting a terminally ill patient to sign a new will giving all their money to one child 5 minutes before they die.

If it was the case that Labor had given EW bi partisan support and only removed it last minute last August when the project was so advanced then the Napthine govt would have been more than entitled to get the contract signed including compensation to protect the developer. Anything this else would have truly signalled to the business world Victoria was closing up for business - and neither major political party could be trusted.

The Eddington List - can you confirm or otherwise that the level crossings do not appear on it?