Preview AFL.com.au rate each clubs best 22 - Collingwood

[DolphinMan]

some good poin

Brown doesn't make half the mistakes Frost does.




Keeffe for his height is actually quite athletic. He makes the odd iffy decision but is usually reliable ball in hand. Frost however is a different story.



If you call standing 5m behind your opponent close checking than sure.



Brown been able to shut down forward like Roughead and Kennedy. Until Frost does that than he can go past Brown.



But Crisp doesn't have to prove himself?[/QUOT

 

[didaksrightfoot]

What I would see as our round 1 lineup


B: Marley Williams, Nathan Brown, Alan Toovey
HB: Tom Langdon, Jack Frost, Ben Reid
C: Travis Varcoe, Dane Swan, Clinton Young
HF: Jarryd Blair, Travis Cloke, Steele Sidebottom
F: Jamie Elliott, Jesse White, Alex Fasolo
R: Brodie Grundy, Scott Pendlebury, Levi Greenwood
I/C: Jarrod Witts, Taylor Adams, Tyson Goldsack
Sub: Broomhead

I would really like the back 6 to stay set like that for most of the season. You could rotate in Keefe for either of Frost/Brown, and Reid could do some stints up forward, and either Seedsman or Scharenburg (when healthy) could also cement themselves into the back 6 at some stage. Consistency down back is a big key to improving as a team.

The midfield spots will see a lot of rotation this year. I would say that only Pendles, Sidey (effectively a midfielder) and Greenwood are the only ones who I expect to play all 22 games - add Swan if he's fit and in form. Adams is probably next in line to cement his spot, and I've put Broomhead as my favoured sub to start the year, because I really liked how he ended last season. Varcoe and Young are known quanities and should play most games, but hopefully a few of the young guys coming through do well enough that they become regulars.

My preference for Ruck is Witts and Grundy as co-rucks. I feel Grundy is a better pure Ruckman, but Witts provides more around the ground, up forward, with a better tank and doesn't have those brain snaps. But to play them both together requires them to show more as forward options. (Witts has started doing so... Grundy has to develop that). I also don't mind playing one of those guys with White as the 2nd ruck. I think White actually did quite well when put into the middle last year - was ok in the ruck contest, but mobility was an advantage against traditional rucks.

Up forward - move Trav away from goal... but that requires one of White, Witts, Grundy (or Reid when up forward) to really make FF their own... I'm not overly confident about any of those.
I want Elliot and Fas to just both be stuck in the forward line. I understand how tempting it is to have more guys rotating through the midfield, but we have enough midfield depth/potential and I would rather these guys just cement their role in our forward structure.
Both Blair and Goldsack are useful up forward, IMO, but probably not at the same time.

 

[Prestige Presti]

Didn't Brown only concede more than 2 goals twice in 2013?

People seem to remember the games against Cameron and Tippett and not the 20 odd other games he killed his opponent, he's one of the best/consistent pure stoppers in the AFL when fit, hasn't even played 100 games yet, not out of the question he's got that development left in him, and like a number of our other guns this preseason, he's looking pretty bloody fit and eager, with that added element of leadership he's been gathering and learning whilst injured as a bonus.

A fit Nathan Brown is the difference between conceding 4-5 goals to spuds like Liam Jones again or destroying them, he'll be our fortress in defense in 2015.

 

[mike123]

Didn't Brown only concede more than 2 goals twice in 2013?

People seem to remember the games against Cameron and Tippett and not the 20 odd other games he killed his opponent, he's one of the best/consistent pure stoppers in the AFL when fit, hasn't even played 100 games yet, not out of the question he's got that development left in him, and like a number of our other guns this preseason, he's looking pretty bloody fit and eager, with that added element of leadership he's been gathering and learning whilst injured as a bonus.

A fit Nathan Brown is the difference between conceding 4-5 goals to spuds like Liam Jones again or destroying them, he'll be our fortress in defense in 2015.

Who was playing on Jones?

 

[Baird]

Who was playing on Jones?

Keeffe

 

[mike123]

Keeffe

Just watching the replay now, his first goal that Keeffe gave away was when the Bulldogs had an extra player in the forwardline, the second goal Frost gave away, the third one was a free given away from Langdon, and Langdon gave away the last.

 

[loki04]

Blair and goldsack can't play in same forward line too defensive and s**t.

 

[Jonno94]

I hope we go young for most of the year.

B: Tyson Goldsack, Nathan Brown, Alan Toovey
HB: Tom Langdon, Ben Reid, Marley Williams
C: Travis Varcoe, Dane Swan, Nathan Freeman
HF: Jordan De Goey, Travis Cloke, Steele Sidebottom
F: Jamie Elliott, Jesse White, Tim Broomhead
R: Brodie Grundy, Scott Pendlebury, Levi Greenwood
I/C: Jarrod Witts, Taylor Adams, Paul Seedsman
Sub: Ben Kennedy

Fasolo, Crisp, Karnezis, Maynard, Scharenberg could all come in at some stage with Goodyear to surprise. We have a serious lack of senior talent, which needs to be addressed next F/A period.

Guys like Blair and Dwyer who offer us nothing shouldn't be getting games, younger players can play their roles better.

 

[Lefthanded]

I hope we go young for most of the year.

B: Tyson Goldsack, Nathan Brown, Alan Toovey
HB: Tom Langdon, Ben Reid, Marley Williams
C: Travis Varcoe, Dane Swan, Nathan Freeman
HF: Jordan De Goey, Travis Cloke, Steele Sidebottom
F: Jamie Elliott, Jesse White, Tim Broomhead
R: Brodie Grundy, Scott Pendlebury, Levi Greenwood
I/C: Jarrod Witts, Taylor Adams, Paul Seedsman
Sub: Ben Kennedy

Fasolo, Crisp, Karnezis, Maynard, Scharenberg could all come in at some stage with Goodyear to surprise. We have a serious lack of senior talent, which needs to be addressed next F/A period.

Guys like Blair and Dwyer who offer us nothing shouldn't be getting games, younger players can play their roles better.

Opening statement about Young and then you leave him out of the team?

 

[loki04]

I hope we go young for most of the year.

B: Tyson Goldsack, Nathan Brown, Alan Toovey
HB: Tom Langdon, Ben Reid, Marley Williams
C: Travis Varcoe, Dane Swan, Nathan Freeman
HF: Jordan De Goey, Travis Cloke, Steele Sidebottom
F: Jamie Elliott, Jesse White, Tim Broomhead
R: Brodie Grundy, Scott Pendlebury, Levi Greenwood
I/C: Jarrod Witts, Taylor Adams, Paul Seedsman
Sub: Ben Kennedy

Fasolo, Crisp, Karnezis, Maynard, Scharenberg could all come in at some stage with Goodyear to surprise. We have a serious lack of senior talent, which needs to be addressed next F/A period.

Guys like Blair and Dwyer who offer us nothing shouldn't be getting games, younger players can play their roles better.

Id play Swan on the wing and get Freeman, Adams and Broomy rotating through center.

 

[Lefthanded]

Cloke CHF, Reid FF
Elliott FP or FF
Sidebottom on a wing
Adams & Greenwood rotating centre & I/C to provide the grunt
Witts & Grundy rotating ruck and FP
Pendles & Swan on the ball
Pick 2 of Frost, Brown & Keeffe for FB & CHB depending on opposition (3 only if playing a team that warrants it, possibly Hawks, Swans, North)
add Williams & Toovey BP and that's 14 of the 22

Much of the rest up for grabs, how they are selected tells us how the selectors see this year, eg Blair plays 16+ games they are trying to contend or believe they need him to help develop youth. Personally I hope the younger guys demand games ahead of him & similar players (Young, Dwyer, Goldsack, Macaffer, White, Sinclair - similar in that they are more experienced but have lower ceilings than their alternatives)

Broomhead, Fas, BK, De Goey, Blair, JT competing for small forward, rotational mid positions. JT probably behind as a forward, ahead as a mid. (probably room for 3 in my team at present)
Freeman would probably get a start on my team - on the bench or sub but could just as easily group him with above and select 4
Despite where I put him above Goldsack probably also in my starting 22 due to his pace, aggression & versatility

White our first choice if Witts or Grundy need a rest. Gault further backup, Cox - break in emergency?

Moore & Marsh as next tier of key forwards or backs

Langdon, Seeds, Shazza (when match fit), Oxley, Maynard some players with kicking & or intercept marking competing for back flanks (probably room for 2 in my team at present
Sinclair & Ramsay depth for back pockets
Young, Dwyer, Macaffer (when fit) in the mix for the bench but not my preferences unless we need their experience

I'm unsure how to categorise PK, Crisp, Varcoe but expect each, especially TV to be in the mix

Goodyear, Manteit, Armstrong & Abbott as depth and spending time to develop

 

[loki04]

What I would see as our round 1 lineup


B: Marley Williams, Nathan Brown, Alan Toovey
HB: Tom Langdon, Jack Frost, Ben Reid
C: Travis Varcoe, Dane Swan, Clinton Young
HF: Jarryd Blair, Travis Cloke, Steele Sidebottom
F: Jamie Elliott, Jesse White, Alex Fasolo
R: Brodie Grundy, Scott Pendlebury, Levi Greenwood
I/C: Jarrod Witts, Taylor Adams, Tyson Goldsack
Sub: Broomhead

I would really like the back 6 to stay set like that for most of the season. You could rotate in Keefe for either of Frost/Brown, and Reid could do some stints up forward, and either Seedsman or Scharenburg (when healthy) could also cement themselves into the back 6 at some stage. Consistency down back is a big key to improving as a team.

The midfield spots will see a lot of rotation this year. I would say that only Pendles, Sidey (effectively a midfielder) and Greenwood are the only ones who I expect to play all 22 games - add Swan if he's fit and in form. Adams is probably next in line to cement his spot, and I've put Broomhead as my favoured sub to start the year, because I really liked how he ended last season. Varcoe and Young are known quanities and should play most games, but hopefully a few of the young guys coming through do well enough that they become regulars.

My preference for Ruck is Witts and Grundy as co-rucks. I feel Grundy is a better pure Ruckman, but Witts provides more around the ground, up forward, with a better tank and doesn't have those brain snaps. But to play them both together requires them to show more as forward options. (Witts has started doing so... Grundy has to develop that). I also don't mind playing one of those guys with White as the 2nd ruck. I think White actually did quite well when put into the middle last year - was ok in the ruck contest, but mobility was an advantage against traditional rucks.

Up forward - move Trav away from goal... but that requires one of White, Witts, Grundy (or Reid when up forward) to really make FF their own... I'm not overly confident about any of those.
I want Elliot and Fas to just both be stuck in the forward line. I understand how tempting it is to have more guys rotating through the midfield, but we have enough midfield depth/potential and I would rather these guys just cement their role in our forward structure.
Both Blair and Goldsack are useful up forward, IMO, but probably not at the same time.

Blair should not be a regular in the 22.
Broomhead should be.

 

[neilk]

This is the Herald-Sun's best 22 for us:

B: Lachie Keeffe, Jack Frost, Alan Toovey
HB: Tom Langdon, Nathan Brown, Travis Varcoe
C: Brent Macaffer, Levi Greenwood, Marley Williams
HF: Jarryd Blair, Travis Cloke, Dane Swan
F: Jamie Elliott, Ben Reid, Tyson Goldsack
FOLL: Brodie Grundy, Steele Sidebottom, Scott Pendlebury
I/C: Nathan Freeman, Clinton Young, Jarrod Witts, Taylor Adams
Not picked: Josh Thomas, Jack Crisp, Paul Seedsman, Sam Dwyer, Jordan De Goey, Alex Fasolo, Ben Kennedy, Matthew Scharenberg, Jesse White, Darcy Moore
If Reid plays forward, White isn’t in Collingwood’s best 22. Fasolo and Seedsman unlucky not to make the side, but Freeman’s excitement and Varcoe’s pace off half-back give the Pies an extra dimension. Sidebottom’s very damaging up forward, but he’s able to find plenty of the ball in the guts. He’ll rotate with Swan, who starts inside forward 50. Close call, but Young gets in just ahead of Thomas, which gives the Pies a little more outside drive via foot.

 

[Kilmo]

This is the Herald-Sun's best 22 for us:

B: Lachie Keeffe, Jack Frost, Alan Toovey
HB: Tom Langdon, Nathan Brown, Travis Varcoe
C: Brent Macaffer, Levi Greenwood, Marley Williams
HF: Jarryd Blair, Travis Cloke, Dane Swan
F: Jamie Elliott, Ben Reid, Tyson Goldsack
FOLL: Brodie Grundy, Steele Sidebottom, Scott Pendlebury
I/C: Nathan Freeman, Clinton Young, Jarrod Witts, Taylor Adams
Not picked: Josh Thomas, Jack Crisp, Paul Seedsman, Sam Dwyer, Jordan De Goey, Alex Fasolo, Ben Kennedy, Matthew Scharenberg, Jesse White, Darcy Moore
If Reid plays forward, White isn’t in Collingwood’s best 22. Fasolo and Seedsman unlucky not to make the side, but Freeman’s excitement and Varcoe’s pace off half-back give the Pies an extra dimension. Sidebottom’s very damaging up forward, but he’s able to find plenty of the ball in the guts. He’ll rotate with Swan, who starts inside forward 50. Close call, but Young gets in just ahead of Thomas, which gives the Pies a little more outside drive via foot.

I am as excited about Freeman as anyone, but to pick him as best 22 when he is sitting on 0 games seems a bit much, especially with guys like Thomas and Fas who are likely a similar position, not getting a look in. The poor bloke sure has a lot of pressure on him leading into the season...

 

[loki04]

Blair and Goldsack kicked 12 and 10 goals respectively and played almost the entire year Goldy admittedly moved around between def and fwd so may have effected his output.
This purely is not enough from 2 of your forwards and is large part of why we struggled to break 80 points a game which is shockingly low they offer very very little creativity and make our structure too defensive in nature.

Blair over the last 3 seasons has had 17 goals from 23 games (2012), 14 from 22 (2013) and 12 from 21 (2014) which shows he isn't a forwards ass hole. Additionally he only provided 13 goal assists which again is low Goldsack faired worse with 8.

http://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/J/Jarryd_Blair.html
http://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/T/Tyson_Goldsack.html

Having a set up that involves both of these as forward options restricts our fire power, creativity, goal scoring output directly (Goal output) and indirectly (Goal Assists), avenue to goal (less chance of winning a 50/50 ball due to lack of class skill makes team mates hesitant to move the ball through you unless you are a clear wide option.)

So now the other white elephant is the argument they are there to stop rebounding but unless my eyes deceived me opposition defences had no issues cutting through our press in fact iirc we were a bottom 4 team for having teams go coast to coast against us.

We 100% can not go into 2015 with a similar forward structure to last season it will truly set us up to fail and will squarely lay at the feet of Buckley if he allows it.

 

[DrDavoren]

Re Shaw - we missed him last year and we will miss him next year. Poor trade.

Pretty Shaw we will be happy with getting Adams after this year, so letting Shaw go may have been a loss but we will hopefully end up with a 10 year player with a high cieling.
I see Adams adding more to our future than the loss of Heater.

His GF deeds will never be forgotten and we all need to move on.

 

[mattys123]

So here's the Herald Suns' attempt at our best 22;

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...ho-makes-the-cut/story-fni5f3kt-1227194808450

B: Lachie Keeffe, Jack Frost, Alan Toovey

HB: Tom Langdon, Nathan Brown, Travis Varcoe

C: Brent Macaffer, Levi Greenwood, Marley Williams

HF: Jarryd Blair, Travis Cloke, Dane Swan

F: Jamie Elliott, Ben Reid, Tyson Goldsack

FOLL: Brodie Grundy, Steele Sidebottom, Scott Pendlebury

I/C: Nathan Freeman, Clinton Young, Jarrod Witts, Taylor Adams

Not picked: Josh Thomas, Jack Crisp, Paul Seedsman, Sam Dwyer, Jordan De Goey, Alex Fasolo, Ben Kennedy, Matthew Scharenberg, Jesse White, Darcy Moore

Sorry, but how stupid is this, they name 32 players, including Moore and Scharenberg, who aren't even in contention for round 1, yet forget about Marsh and Broomhead.

Young in our 22 is just yuck too, especially ahead of Seedsman, Fasolo, Kennedy, White and Broomhead. The less games Clinton Young plays for Collingwood the better off we will be.

 

[mike123]

Blair should not be a regular in the 22.
Broomhead should be.

With Steele Sidebottom, Alex Fasolo, Jamie Elliot down there we need one defensive forward.

 

[Baird]

With Steele Sidebottom, Alex Fasolo, Jamie Elliot down there we need one defensive forward.

Goldsack. Kicks more goals and puts on more pressure than Blair.

 

[mike123]

Goldsack. Kicks more goals and puts on more pressure than Blair.

Fair enough, but I'd rather Blair than Goldsack. Most of the goals Goldsack kicked where cheap joe the goose over the top. Blair put on more tackles than Goldsack this year. Blair wins more of the ball, is a more effective target inside 50 is more dangerous ball in hand and can rotate through the middle. Blair isn't the greatest kick but at least some times he can hit a target sell a dummy and create a goal. Goldsack just butchers the ball constantly.

 

[loki04]

With Steele Sidebottom, Alex Fasolo, Jamie Elliot down there we need one defensive forward.

Defensive fwd is defunct if your normal forwards aren't lazy/unfit, when your team doesn't have the ball you chase and be accountable for your opponent.

Steele is accountable and so is Elliott.

Blairs tackles are almost worthless very rarely are they quality tackles, I think the last few years have shown our fwd set up is not right 80 and 90 point scores are shocking.

 

[mike123]

Defensive fwd is defunct if your normal forwards aren't lazy/unfit, when your team doesn't have the ball you chase and be accountable for your opponent.

Steele is accountable and so is Elliott.

Blairs tackles are almost worthless very rarely are they quality tackles, I think the last few years have shown our fwd set up is not right 80 and 90 point scores are shocking.

I'd actually hope a Ben Ken, JT or Jacky Crisp could fill that role and push Blair out.

 

[Pleasedontfail11]

I have ranked all the Collingwood players from best to worst (current form/training not potential) for their positions. The best 22 will be a mix of players depending on what the match commity sees as the best structure. For example they might only go with one small forward and rest 2 rotating mids in the forward line.


Rucks : Witts*, Grundy*, Coxs*
Backup rucks/forwards : White, Witts*, Grundy*, Gault, Moore, Coxs
Potential Midfielders: Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Swan, Greenwood, McCaffer, Adams, Thomas, Elliott*, Varcoe*, Crisps, Blair*, Broomhead*, Dwyer, Kennedy*, Freeman, DeGooey, Karnesis*
KPD: Reid*, Frost, Brown Keeffe
Potential Small defenders: Toovey, Williams, Langdon, Goldsack*, Young, Seedsman, Sinclair, Fasolo*, Armstrong, Marsh, Ramsay, Oxley, Maynard, Goodyear, Mantit, Scharenberg
KPF: Cloke, Reid*, Moore*
Small forwards: Elliott*, Goldsack*, Varcoe*, Fasolo*, Karnesis*, Broomhead*, blair*, Kennedy*

* indicates multidimensional players (utilities)

 

[Bard]

So here's the Herald Suns' attempt at our best 22;

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...ho-makes-the-cut/story-fni5f3kt-1227194808450



Sorry, but how stupid is this, they name 32 players, including Moore and Scharenberg, who aren't even in contention for round 1, yet forget about Marsh and Broomhead.

Young in our 22 is just yuck too, especially ahead of Seedsman, Fasolo, Kennedy, White and Broomhead. The less games Clinton Young plays for Collingwood the better off we will be.

In their defence re: Young

- Seedsman had a s**t 2014, worse than Young's (inorite)
- Young is still better defender and backline player than Fasolo, this could easily change but do we really want to play Fasolo down there
- Kennedy doesn't play in the backline
- White doesn't play in the backline
- Broomhead could play in the backline but probably won't

So... Yeah... Young will be in our starting 22, and he'll hopefully be phased out over the course of the year, but there'll be no one sitting out come round 1 that has a legitimate claim to his position.

 

[Bard]

I have ranked all the Collingwood players from best to worst (current form/training not potential) for their positions. The best 22 will be a mix of players depending on what the match commity sees as the best structure. For example they might only go with one small forward and rest 2 rotating mids in the forward line.


Rucks : Witts*, Grundy*, Coxs*
Backup rucks/forwards : White, Witts*, Grundy*, Gault, Moore, Coxs
Potential Midfielders: Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Swan, Greenwood, McCaffer, Adams, Thomas, Elliott*, Varcoe*, Crisps, Blair*, Broomhead*, Dwyer, Kennedy*, Freeman, DeGooey, Karnesis*
KPD: Reid*, Frost, Brown Keeffe
Potential Small defenders: Toovey, Williams, Langdon, Goldsack*, Young, Seedsman, Sinclair, Fasolo*, Armstrong, Marsh, Ramsay, Oxley, Maynard, Goodyear, Mantit, Scharenberg
KPF: Cloke, Reid*, Moore*
Small forwards: Elliott*, Goldsack*, Varcoe*, Fasolo*, Karnesis*, Broomhead*, blair*, Kennedy*

* indicates multidimensional players (utilities)

Good post Could nitpick about Goldsack/Karnezis not really being small forwards but I suppose it's the most relevant position out of those you have listed.