Preview AFL.com.au rate each clubs best 22 - Collingwood

[Pleasedontfail11]

Good post Could nitpick about Goldsack/Karnezis not really being small forwards but I suppose it's the most relevant position out of those you have listed.

Thanks for the feedback. I guess I could have called the row medium/small forwards or non key position forwards. It's more a question of style of play. They aren't massive men and they are not expected to take big pack marks. They are expected to lead, link up and crumb to Cloke ect.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Not enough Karnezis in that side.

 

[Snoop Dog]

I was staggered Broomhead wasn't in. One of the best kicks we have so he plays;

For me

LBP: Jack Frost - Can play tall or short and whilst kicking isn't great his endeavour is excellent. For me he gets a game before Keefe.

FB: Nathan Brown - They will want his leadership in the back half and super critical he stands up but has missed a lot of footy so will take time.

RBP: Alan Toovey - Again be very surprised if he doesn't win a spot. His tagging very important.

LHBF: Tom Langdon - Kid has to play and will be keen to see how much has built and how he copes Yr 2.

CHB: Lachlan Keefe - He will play as think they will persist with Reid fwd given how badly we went there last year. Probably takes the kick ins as well.

RHBF - Alex Fasolo - This is a spot that is up for grabs but given his success there last year I suspect he may get first crack. Sinclair and Williams aren't good enough kicks for mine and you need quality kicks in your back half. One of those two will be on the bench. Seedsman could also be here.

LW: Steele Sidebottom - Only argument is does he start in centre.

C: Scott Pendlebury

RW: Travis Varcoe - they have made it pretty clear he has been recruited for that spot.

LHF: Tim Broomhead - Will be a midfield rotation through the year. Elite kick so a must in the 22.

CHF: Travis Cloke - Move him out of FF and get him mobile.

RHF: Dane Swan - Could be a big impact for us this year. If Reid, Cloke, Swan and Elliott with Broomhead as well can get going then we should be able to regularly hit a 100 or so.

LFP: Jamie Elliott - Gun.

FF: Ben Reid - Got to play him forward unless Jesse White or Pat Karnezis fire in the NAB in which case you may push him back. Coach would love it if someone did give him that option.

RFP: Tyson Goldsack - Ideally he plays fwd and applies pressure but won't surprise to see him back and rebounding. Could swap him with Faz pretty easily. Also think Kennedy could play that role well as well.

Ruck: Jarrod Witts - He gets first go as finished year really well.

Ruck Rover: Levi Greenwood

Rover: Taylor Adams

Interchange:

Brodie Grundy - Need a 2nd ruck so he comes in but White could find himself there if coach wants more options (i.e. Reid back)

Nathan Freeman - He will be in the side for mine. Probably gets it ahead of Josh Thomas

Marley Williams - Will be in the side so they can swing Faz fwd as at present other than Goldsack nobody that can go back if required.

Jack Crisp - I think he sneaks in but its pretty tight for this last spot and whoever goes best in NAB Cup would get it. Literally think BK, Sinclair, Blair, Karnezis, Thomas, Seedsman, Young, White and Dwyer would be all a chance.

 

[swiftdog]

This is the Herald-Sun's best 22 for us:

B: Lachie Keeffe, Jack Frost, Alan Toovey
HB: Tom Langdon, Nathan Brown, Travis Varcoe
C: Brent Macaffer, Levi Greenwood, Marley Williams
HF: Jarryd Blair, Travis Cloke, Dane Swan
F: Jamie Elliott, Ben Reid, Tyson Goldsack
FOLL: Brodie Grundy, Steele Sidebottom, Scott Pendlebury
I/C: Nathan Freeman, Clinton Young, Jarrod Witts, Taylor Adams
Not picked: Josh Thomas, Jack Crisp, Paul Seedsman, Sam Dwyer, Jordan De Goey, Alex Fasolo, Ben Kennedy, Matthew Scharenberg, Jesse White, Darcy Moore
If Reid plays forward, White isn’t in Collingwood’s best 22. Fasolo and Seedsman unlucky not to make the side, but Freeman’s excitement and Varcoe’s pace off half-back give the Pies an extra dimension. Sidebottom’s very damaging up forward, but he’s able to find plenty of the ball in the guts. He’ll rotate with Swan, who starts inside forward 50. Close call, but Young gets in just ahead of Thomas, which gives the Pies a little more outside drive via foot.

I actually think that side's well and truly on the right track but with 3 changes:

Broomhead for Blair - like others, I'm too frustrated by Blair to put him in the best 22. Broomhead had a brilliant debut season, definitely done enough so far to be included in best 22.
Kennedy for Freeman - Freeman hasn't played an AFL game yet, Kennedy has shown a bit, deserves a chance to establish himself provided his tank has improved.
Seedsman for Young - I just think Seedsman's the better player, Young is on the verge of best 22 only.

 

[Lefthanded]

So here's the Herald Suns' attempt at our best 22;

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...ho-makes-the-cut/story-fni5f3kt-1227194808450



Sorry, but how stupid is this, they name 32 players, including Moore and Scharenberg, who aren't even in contention for round 1, yet forget about Marsh and Broomhead.

Young in our 22 is just yuck too, especially ahead of Seedsman, Fasolo, Kennedy, White and Broomhead. The less games Clinton Young plays for Collingwood the better off we will be.

Given Marsh is yet to debut I can understand that but Broomhead being left out is possibly too stupid even for HS. Did Eddie pay them to leave him out so he can get better odds on Tim for Rising Star?

 

[beerbandit]

Side I'd like to see
B: Langdon , Brown, Toovey
HB : Fasolo , Frost, Williams
C: Freeman , Greenwood, Sidebottom
HF : Varcoe, Cloke, Goldsack
F: Elliott, Reid, Broomhead
R: Grundy , Swan, Pendlebury
IC : Adams, Seedsman, Moore, De Goey

 

[MarkT2]

The only obvious in from the side in the article is Broomhead who looks a good player and Seedsman is a starter rather than a sub when fit.

Unfortunately that's still an ordinary side going nowhere. Too slow, not skilled enough and lacking in the intangibles like footy nouse. On top of development of the younger players in that sider, it needs a good injection from the undeveloped high draft picks over the next couple of years plus some better trading than we've done since the 2011 pre season when we were able to add Tarrant & Krakouer to achieve anything.
Time (? 2 years ?) will tell if the list is much chop but the starting 22 for round 1 is a long way from a contending side and depth at round 1 is non existant.

 

[4#Didak#4]

B: Tyson Goldsack, Nathan Brown, Alan Toovey
HB: Paul Seedsman, Jack Frost, Marley Williams

C: Steele Sidebottom, Dane Swan, Tim Broomhead
R: Jarrod Witts, Scott Pendlebury, Levi Greenwood

HF: Jamie Elliott, Ben Reid, Travis Varcoe
F: Patrick Karnezis, Travis Cloke, Alex Fasolo

I/C: Brodie Grundy, Taylor Adams, Tom Langdon
Sub: Nathan Freeman/Clinton Young

There is my best balanced side for now - from a positional point of view & as a youth/experience blend

Some notes:
-Karnezis as a leading forward, a type we have been missing for some time & makes the forward line more dynamic - he can also play midfield if needed.
- Reid & Cloke are a formidable match up for any defence plus a rotating ruck through there and we have size & power. White is the back up in the twos.
- Elliot, Varcoe & Fasolo bring a lot of x-factor and skill to the forward line - something we have missed for a long time. These three plus Karnezis can also push up the ground. Blair is the backup and Kennedy needs to be in the picture too. We still lack a genuine crumber though.
- I like Sidebottom & Broomy on opposite wings, they are good transition, linking players.
- Frost & Brown are our best one on one defenders and do enough to mean we don't need Reid, plus we have Keefe ready to go too.
-I like Goldsack back, his best games last year were back and it gives us great flexibility.
- Toovey is Toovey. I like the last line of defense as it brings experience & stability especially in the absence of Maxwell.
-Langdon will play a part in defense as well at some stage. I would love to have Scharenburg as an option as he would bring class.
- Seedsman is a key to our team if he can put it all together. He carries the ball and delivers it beautifully and gives a somewhat drab backline some bite.
- Williams brings intensity and hardness - has a crack, lets not forget Ben Sinclair though.
- Freeman is a tantalising prospect, could be a great impact player to start his career. Young is a great sub - this guys has had some wonderful 1 quarter games in his career so maybe this is ideal for him - can instantly impact.

I think our core midfield is a concern and is relying a lot on Swan recovering his form. However while we may not have the quality we formerly had, we do have quantity. We have a lot of guys who can play multiple positions and rotate throughout the midfield, backline & forward line. This is a key in modern footy and new recruits like De Goey, Maynard & Crisp fit this mould too. Our key position players are fine and our young rucks will only improve. We have some tremendous depth too and we will have the ability to have a horses for courses team that can adapt to opposition strengths.

It is time for me to review my best 22 from before the season starts. Changes in bold.

B: Ben Sinclair, Nathan Brown, Alan Toovey
HB: Matt Scharenburg, Jack Frost, Marley Williams

C: Steele Sidebottom, Dane Swan, Travis Varcoe
R: Brodie Grundy, Scott Pendlebury, Levi Greenwood

HF: Jamie Elliott, Ben Reid, Tim Broomhead
F: Darcy Moore, Travis Cloke, Alex Fasolo

I/C: Jack Crisp, Taylor Adams, Tom Langdon
Sub: Jordan De Goey


IN: De Goey, Moore, Scharenburg, Sinclair, Crisp

OUT: Karnezis, Freeman/Young(subs), Seedsman, Goldsack, Witts

This is now my best balanced side for now - from a positional point of view & as a youth/experience blend. Given the current ladder position I am leaning to playing some youngsters more than I was. This will hurt the selection prospects of Goldy, Blair, Dwyer etc.

My Ins & Outs:
1. Freeman/Young mainly due to injury have not had a chance to really show their best. De Goey has jumped them now.
2. Karnezis is a big disapointment, my lead up forward has failed to impress and can't be picked on form. Moore has shown a lot more than expected for a 1st year player and steps straight in for development as much as performance. I would like Moore to concentrate on leading and moving - leave the big boy stuff to Reid & Cloke for now.
3. Seedsman is easy to drop but with much sadness as we know his best makes us a better side. Crisp has been the big mover and slots in.
4. Goldsack I hate to leave out, but I am for balance. Could easily have him on the bench or sub even. He hasn't had a great year and been carrying injuries, but he just hasn't nailed a spot. He is a classic utility and would be first back in case of injury. Scharenburg is in for development and skill set, time to fast track him. Also ear mark him to take the god damn kick ins!!! Brings some class to a very workman like backline.
5. Witts is out for balance. Leaning towards mobility. I love big Witts but he is not clunking enough marks forward (or around the ground) - if he was I would have him instead of Moore. Leaves Grundy with a lot of work but its trending this way for ruckman. We get a bonus runner on the bench and I think this will help us run games out.
6. Sinclair in will be shock horror for some, but for me he has been one of the most missed. Will take all the best quick small forwards - all of which have dominated us this year. Sinclair frees up Williams to be a bit more offensive so I like that fringe benefit. Tooves can go back to the medium talls and we get poor old Langdon out of the firing line.

Some notes:
- Reid & Cloke still form my ideal forward line. I am still waiting to see it. I am proud to say White was never in my best 22 and still isn't. I want White to go back to the twos and become a defender. Moore next to Reid & Cloke will be delicious. Moore will need to build relief ruck into his game as I have ditched the resting ruck/forward concept for now.
- We still miss a genuine crumber in the forward line (Jeffy Garlett should have been our man ). Broomhead is there for that but I want to see if Kennedy can do this.
- Frost & Brown have held up amazingly well injury wise. When one gets injured we are screwed though. Damn you Keefe!
- Some dark horses have emerged and will be pressing this side soon. Chef Ramsay impressed me before he got injured and Marsh is demanding selection in the VFL. Maynard is a brute and in time will be a good player.

Looking forward I think we need to pull one big rabbit out of the hat at trade time and land a big fish quality midfielder. Treloar and Dangerfield have been touted and tick the boxes. This will allow us to shift Swan forward more as he winds down.

 

[MarkT2]

You have put Sinclair in without playing a game and Scharenburg on the strength of 1 possibly Ok game?

 

[4#Didak#4]

You have put Sinclair in without playing a game and Scharenburg on the strength of 1 possibly Ok game?

Indeed I have and I did expect raised eyebrows. Although I think Sinkers has played a few more than that in his career including a couple early this year before his hammy pinged.

Sinclair (when fit) is best equipped to tackle the small forwards that have simply thrashed us all year and he allows Williams to be more expansive in his running game. Sinclair is in to play as shut down defender, I don't care if he doesn't get a kick as long as Rioli,Walters & co aren't kicking 4 goals each week.

Scharenburg is a bit about development, we need to pile games into him as we are playing catch up after his horror run with injuries. I have already seen enough (not just on Saturday) to tell me he will be a walk up start next year (if fit!). If we can get some games in him now he will be far better for it next year. Also, we really need some guys who can use the ball out of the back half. I would like to see Scharenburg to eventually be the guy to take the kick ins. If we were sitting in the top 8 and were likely to impact finals I would probably have kept Goldy in.

 

[DAWESOME!!]

Sinclair ahead of Ramsay or Toovey is a bit of a punt at this point.

 

[MarkT2]

Indeed I have and I did expect raised eyebrows. Although I think Sinkers has played a few more than that in his career including a couple early this year before his hammy pinged.

Sinclair (when fit) is best equipped to tackle the small forwards that have simply thrashed us all year and he allows Williams to be more expansive in his running game. Sinclair is in to play as shut down defender, I don't care if he doesn't get a kick as long as Rioli,Walters & co aren't kicking 4 goals each week.

Scharenburg is a bit about development, we need to pile games into him as we are playing catch up after his horror run with injuries. I have already seen enough (not just on Saturday) to tell me he will be a walk up start next year (if fit!). If we can get some games in him now he will be far better for it next year. Also, we really need some guys who can use the ball out of the back half. I would like to see Scharenburg to eventually be the guy to take the kick ins. If we were sitting in the top 8 and were likely to impact finals I would probably have kept Goldy in.

I like how Sinclair plays but he can't kick and kicking is our biggest weakness. We have to improve overall footskills not reduce them. I am not against playing him but others that are poor kicks have to exit in that case.
Scharenburg is speculation. Again I am not against playing him but there is no way he is our best 22. He would be played on development grounds as you indicated. Whether he is best 22 next year is speculative. I honestly doubt it at round 1 but he may well develop quickly with senior games.

 

[4#Didak#4]

Sinclair ahead of Ramsay or Toovey is a bit of a punt at this point.

Toovey is still there so its Sinclair ahead of Ramsay. I really liked Ramsay's few games this year but I can't see him as a guy who can shut down the oppositions best small forwards. I am picking Sinclair purely on a defensive basis. We have been completely thrashed this year by all the good small forwards, all of them got off the leash and kicked multiples - they were a big part of why we lost to Freo & the Hawks. Sinclair is our best bet.

I like how Sinclair plays but he can't kick and kicking is our biggest weakness. We have to improve overall footskills not reduce them. I am not against playing him but others that are poor kicks have to exit in that case.
Scharenburg is speculation. Again I am not against playing him but there is no way he is our best 22. He would be played on development grounds as you indicated. Whether he is best 22 next year is speculative. I honestly doubt it at round 1 but he may well develop quickly with senior games.

Sinclair's kicking is questionable but he is not alone there, but if he is doing his job he won't be chasing kicks and will have limited use. Williams will be the kick chaser and provide the run. So where are the foot skills coming from?

I have one position available - possibly two if we make a hard call on Toovey who I currently have as our best medium size defender. At some point the young guys will match him defensively which will make his foot skills a liability - no one yet has shown they can defend like possum eyes though.

I think the debate will be around where Ramsay/Scharenburg/Langdon/Maynard/Seedsman/Marsh fit in the back half.

I picked Scharenburg because he is more of a complete package albeit further back in his development - hence the need to fast track his development. He has the best skills by foot both technically and decision making. And as Bucks said "he knows what he is doing".

Seedsman I was hoping at the start of the year he could bring his skill set to the half back line but as we know he has stalled inexplicably badly. His best bet now is playing a wing and replicating Anzac Day form. We have enough other options now in the back half. Hasn't got enough urgency in his game to be a defender.

Chef Ramsay for me is very close just need to see more of him against good opposition, his injury was bad timing for the team and him, but he is in the frame. Wouldn't surprise me to see Ramsay & Scharenburg in the Rd 1 team next year.

Maynard is enticing and reminds me of an hard old school footballer, can kick OK but needs a fair bit more time before he makes it. Has shown some glimpses.

Langdon has been playing back most of the year. He can be frustrating because his kicking decisions are either brilliant or horrible, he reads the ball well and that is why he has done OK down back with intercept marking. Just feel he will eventually be a mid - I have him on the bench as a mid/def option anyway.

Marsh is not going to bring foot skills but I will reserve judgement until he plays some senior football.

 

[Nicco_jj]

Sinclair was quite good and had cleaned up his disposal towards the end of last year. Would be doing no worse than Toovey atm

 

[mike123]

Would drop Toovey for Maynard put Varcoe back for Sinclair, De Goey start and Crisp on the wing.

This would be mine:
B: Matt Scharenberg ~ Nathan Brown ~ Marley Williams
HB: Travis Varcoe ~ Jack Frost ~ Braydon Maynard

C: Steele Sidebottom ~ Taylor Adams ~ Jack Crisp
R: Brodie Grundy ~ Scott Pendlebury ~ Dane Swan

HF: Jamie Elliott ~ Travis Cloke ~ Jordan De Goey
F: Darcy Moore ~ Ben Reid ~ Alex Fasolo

I/C: Tim Broomhead ~ Levi Greenwood ~ Tom Langdon
Sub: Jarryd Blair

 

[Bucksboys]

Sinclair Brown Langdon
Williams Frost Toovey

Grundy Pendlebury Adams
Varcoe Sidebottom Crisp

Swan Cloke Fasolo
Reid Moore Elliott

Greenwood Goldsack Broomhead Ramsay

 

[MarkT2]

Sinclair's kicking is questionable but he is not alone there, but if he is doing his job he won't be chasing kicks and will have limited use. Williams will be the kick chaser and provide the run. So where are the foot skills coming from?

Trade/draft - that's the biggest issue with the list.

In terms of your best 22 though, it's probably academic at this point. When you have half a dozen players coming thorough, history says they won't all make it and the ones that do or don't will not always be the ones you would predict at the outset. That's why a lot of early picks don't make it or become soldiers and players make it from the rookie list. It's also why large scale trading of talent for picks is dangerous.

 

[MarkT2]

Indeed I have and I did expect raised eyebrows. Although I think Sinkers has played a few more than that in his career including a couple early this year before his hammy pinged.

Sinclair (when fit) is best equipped to tackle the small forwards that have simply thrashed us all year and he allows Williams to be more expansive in his running game. Sinclair is in to play as shut down defender, I don't care if he doesn't get a kick as long as Rioli,Walters & co aren't kicking 4 goals each week.

He was handy on Saturday.

 

[4#Didak#4]

He was handy on Saturday.

He showed some glimpses of what he can do, he has cleaned up his disposal and I love his closing speed which is essential for defenders these days.

 

[Shaneprice97]

FB: Marley Williams, Jake Carlisle, Nathan Brown/Jack Frost
HB: Matt Scharenberg, Jon Marsh, Tom Langdon
C: James Aish, Jack Crisp, Steele Sidebottom
HF: Alex Fasolo, Travis Cloke, Travis Varcoe
F: Jamie Elliott, Ben Reid, Darcy Moore
Ruck: Brodie Grundy, Adam Treloar, Scott Pendlebury
Bench: Taylor Adams, Jackson Ramsay, Dane Swan, Levi Greenwood.

In: Adam Treloar
Out: First Round pick 2016, 2nd round pick 2015

In: Jake Carlisle
Out: Jarrod Witts
(Possibly involving 3rd club)

In: James Aish
Out: 2nd round pick 2016, Paul Seedsman or Adam Oxley.

Backline experience may worry some, but by around mid next year, baring injury, Marsh, Ramma and Scharenberg would be the only 3 under 50 games, and will have about 30 each by the end of the year.

 

[mike123]

Needs more Maynard IMO.

 

[Shaneprice97]

Needs more Maynard IMO.

Down between Ramma and Maynard, Ramma just in the end.

 

[mike123]

Down between Ramma and Maynard, Ramma just in the end.

Fair enough.

I'd pick Maynard over Ramma, but that's me.

 

[Shaneprice97]

Fair enough.

I'd pick Maynard over Ramma, but that's me.

Both will eventually be In the 22 together.

Both have plenty of bastard in them, Ramma I think is one that tries his guts out where as Maynard looks like he is the more naturally talented. Maynard probably the higher ceiling.

 

[Robroy22]

Williams Brown Langdon or Oxley
Sharenburg Marsh Maynard (or Ramsay / Sinclair)
Varcoe Adams Crisp
Elliott Cloke Pendlebury
Sidebottom Reid Fasolo
Grundy Greenwood Treloar

Swan, Moore, Broomhead, DeGoey

Emergency: Abbott