It saddens me how criminally underrated Dermott Brereton's career has become.

[Gorry]

A few years ago, in a very different thread, I described the Kid as a cross between Lethal and Knightsy.

Got a couple of likes, so I'll stick with that...

 

[A Diakos]

sheehans top 50 where he had carey at 1 and brereton not in the top 50, opting for the likes of tredrea lynch kernahan instead is laughable….another underrated is langford, just as good as silvagni and scarlett, indeed gary ablett senior on channel 9 footy show sunday week before 1993 grand final categorically declared langford the best full back in the game (youtube and see it)

 

[DrEvil_]

For the relatively few VFL/AFL players who have gone on to become Media personalities there is a definite trade off of reputation and public esteem. The football following public have never been more parochial about their clubs and players, usually at the expense of clear headed rational thought. When the general public are given a voice through such mediums as talk back radio,twitter,SMS or forums like BF it is patently clear that people don't like it one bit if they feel their club is being disrespected. Blokes like Bartlett,Lloyd,Matthews,Dunstall,Healy etc are some of the greatest players the game has seen and warrant significant respect but that is in short order if the passionate footy fan feels his club or players have been slighted by a less than positive opinion from them. Easier to dismiss KB as an old fool or claim an obvious bias from Jason,Matthew or Gerard toward their old team or against a rival of that team than to consider some merit in what they have said. Dermott suffers from this more than most. His Peter Pan persona endures and too often masks a razor sharp football analysts brain. He tends to prattle a bit but his knowlege of the game is second to none. His style and preparedness to be a bit of an iconoclast ( see highly critical comments about media fav Brent Harvey ) can and does put many people offside. He also too easily falls in the trap of reverting to his old schoolyard bully persona at times which damages his more "serious" image. I doubt he gives a stuff but the media Derm is more recognisable to many, many people than the champion footballer Derm ( as it is with JD I'm afraid ) which is a great shame as he was indeed a superstar player.

KB is the epitome of a master troll. Even has the looks.

 

[Procrastinator35]

A few years ago, in a very different thread, I described the Kid as a cross between Lethal and Knightsy.

Got a couple of likes, so I'll stick with that...

Only in Derm's Dreams mate!....

He had the best full-forward at his back, the best goal to goal spine we've ever had at the club during his era, surrounded by highly skilled technicians in Platten & Bucky...Combined with some real hard nuts in Dipper, Collins & Conan, with Tucky to steer the ship!

 

[Rioli2Gunstall]

To me Dermie was always the stand out centre half forward in the history of the game until Wayne Careys later years. Carey is rated higher cos he did it without a Dunstall there. Derm was my favourite player all time and probably still is, he is the one i idolised growing up, every game in school i played CHF cos thats what Dermie did, if someone bumped me i got a hold of them cos thats what Dermie done. I dont really think he is underated, i thought it was common knowledge that he was the greatest CHF to play the game until Carey came along.
What he says in the media is usually very astute and insightful its just the way he wafts it out, taking forever and a day to spit it out like every thought he has is as significant as wax on wax off.

 

[medusala]

Carey had the entire forward line set up around him. Hawthorn had one of the greatest FFs of all time in the same team as Dermott. That makes a huge difference.

Arguably the best player in the greatest ever team.

 

[grumbleguts]

As a measure of his career, the statement he made after the 1991 grand final says it all.

He had just finished his eighth season when he wwas asked about west coast's performance.

he said "If it were me, I wouldn't have chosen to kick with the wind in the first qtr, the grand final takes a bit to get into because you have to get over the nerves for the first 10 or 15 minutes and you waste the wind."

How many 8 season players have enough grand final experience to say that?

His career almost exactly ran parallel with hawthorn's golden run. That's got to count for something.

 

[A Diakos]

To me Dermie was always the stand out centre half forward in the history of the game until Wayne Careys later years. Carey is rated higher cos he did it without a Dunstall there. Derm was my favourite player all time and probably still is, he is the one i idolised growing up, every game in school i played CHF cos thats what Dermie did, if someone bumped me i got a hold of them cos thats what Dermie done. I dont really think he is underated, i thought it was common knowledge that he was the greatest CHF to play the game until Carey came along.
What he says in the media is usually very astute and insightful its just the way he wafts it out, taking forever and a day to spit it out like every thought he has is as significant as wax on wax off.

u have clowns like sheehan not putting him in the top 50 and he's got tredrea and lynch in there….what do u expect from herald sun readers though!……post world war 2 the 3 best chfs are carey hart and dermott

 

[B&GBlood]

Let me first say i wore fluro adidas football boots as a kid and worshipped The Kid but Derms problem is his stints at sydney and the pies were woeful his ego got in the way of him finishing a one club superstar.

His wallet needed padding, that is why he left.

 

[Nuggets73]

Any bloke who rocks up to training in a Ferrari ... is ok by me!

On a serious note .. As a big game player, he was outstanding .. 2nd in total grand final goals kicked .. Dermie thrived on the contest.
.. Sadly was he destroyed physically by 27-28 .. never quite the same after the 89 GF

 

[The BIG X]

KB is the epitome of a master troll. Even has the looks.

Checked the mirror lately Doc?????????????

 

[medusala]

His wallet needed padding, that is why he left.

That's a bit harsh. IIRC he and Ayres were offered extraordinarily low salaries to stay.

 

[Lord Mud of Glenferrie]

His wallet needed padding, that is why he left.

A bit tough on him mate. Hawthorn was heading for the cleaners when his final contract was due. He was offered peanuts to stay at Hawthorn. He considered he deserved better and I think all Hawthorn supporters thought the same.

His comment regarding the Tallis incident is illuminating. At the time Hawthorn had a team of many nobodies whose only claim to fame was that they wore the Brown and Gold. Those nobodies were calling him a has been. So when he had the chance he stood on a nobody's head.

Years later he commented that he just got sick of those players treating him without any respect. Paraphrasing "None of those players knew what it was to play grand finals and win Premierships. None of them knew what Hawthorn meant to him. None of them knew just how tough the game could be and none of them knew how to take the good with the bad. Tallis just happened to be in the right spot at the right time".

 

[Sixpence]

sheehans top 50 where he had carey at 1 and brereton not in the top 50, opting for the likes of tredrea lynch kernahan instead is laughable….another underrated is langford, just as good as silvagni and scarlett, indeed gary ablett senior on channel 9 footy show sunday week before 1993 grand final categorically declared langford the best full back in the game (youtube and see it)

No, it's not. Sheehan's list is Top 50 of the past 25 years and requires players to have played a minimum of 100 games in that period. Derm simply doesn't qualify.

 

[Lord Mud of Glenferrie]

Only in Derm's Dreams mate!....

He had the best full-forward at his back, the best goal to goal spine we've ever had at the club during his era, surrounded by highly skilled technicians in Platten & Bucky...Combined with some real hard nuts in Dipper, Collins & Conan, with Tucky to steer the ship!

I know what you are saying and I largely agree with you. But I do not think that disqualifies Dermie from being what he was.

Just for interest. For one year only and unfortunately only one year.
Moore
Knights
Angus
Martello
Hudson
was not a bad spine.

I am going to take up your challenge to write about Big Al. Thanks a lot for giving me the hardest to write about in my time of following Hawthorn

 

[Procrastinator35]

I know what you are saying and I largely agree with you. But I do not think that disqualifies Dermie from being what he was.

Just for interest. For one year only and unfortunately only one year.
Moore
Knights
Angus
Martello
Hudson
was not a bad spine.

I am going to take up your challenge to write about Big Al. Thanks a lot for giving me the hardest to write about in my time of following Hawthorn

Sumfin, sumfin....Cumbersome. Sumfin, sumfin....Awkward. Sumfin, sumfin....Big Galout!

Now you have started a right old teaser there Lord:

Moore vs Langford....This one I find the Most difficult to split.
Knights vs Mew....Knights without hesitation
Wallace vs Angus....Wallace for longer service & 3 Premierships
Brereton vs Martello...Derm easily
Dunstall vs Hudson....Hudson on Goal average & lost potential alone....But you could choose either without any arguments.

Probably comes down to a generational choice Lord....Only saw Huddo in 1977...Angus didn't last very long & Martello while being dependable, underrated & serviceable, was not in Derm's league/bracket.

So it's Langford, Mew, Wallace, Derm & Bung for mine!....The fact I saw the entirety of all their careers is probably the clincher....1974 was the year when I began to follow the mighty Hawks in earnest.

However, the 70's Ruck division of Scott, Tuck & Matthews will likely never be equaled nor surpassed.... All 300+ games & 7 Premierships as Captains.....In fact; You could mount a strong argument for them being the best ruck division across the entire history of VFL/AFL football.

 

[Lord Mud of Glenferrie]

Sumfin, sumfin....Cumbersome. Sumfin, sumfin....Awkward. Sumfin, sumfin....Big Galout!

Now you have started a right old teaser there Lord:

Moore vs Langford....This one I find the Most difficult to split.
Knights vs Mew....Knights without hesitation
Wallace vs Angus....Wallace for longer service & 3 Premierships
Brereton vs Martello...Derm easily
Dunstall vs Hudson....Hudson on Goal average & lost potential alone....But you could choose either without any arguments.

Probably comes down to a generational choice Lord....Only saw Huddo in 1977...Angus didn't last very long & Martello while being dependable, underrated & serviceable, was not in Derm's league/bracket.

So it's Langford, Mew, Wallace, Derm & Bung for mine!....The fact I saw the entirety of all their careers is probably the clincher....1974 was the year when I began to follow the mighty Hawks in earnest.

However, the 70's Ruck division of Scott, Tuck & Matthews will likely never be equaled nor surpassed.... All 300+ games & 7 Premierships as Captains.....In fact; You could mount a strong argument for them being the best ruck division across the entire history of VFL/AFL football.

Sumfin, sumfin....Cumbersome. Sumfin, sumfin....Awkward. Sumfin, sumfin....Big Galout

I think you got it. All I have to add is Sumfin, Sumfin .... Almost. Sumfin, Sumfin, Leigh Mathews. No the big fella deserves better than that.
Your spine of Langford to Dunstall is easily the best I have seen at the club. I only mentioned the 1971 spine because it was bloody good. Three of them were kids ( Knights, Moore and Big Al) with two already established as the best in the comp. Big Al was something else again. The greatest at full forward was 26 and only approaching his peak. Angus was the the weak link but add him to your list of toughies from the 70s together with Mike Porter.

The centre line was the only weakness in that side with Des Meagher the only stand out.

It may appear I am derailing the thread but I am leading up to something. It was not only the loss of Hudson that gave us the dark years of 72 to 74. A weak centre line also contributed to the decline. It was not until the arrival of Geoff Ablett, Rodney Eade and Barry Rowlings/Terry Wallace that gave us two Premierships in the late 70s and arguably our best ever centre line.

Then another dark era from 79 to 82. The champs of the 70s were aging and many weaknesses were exposed. The most concerning was Centre Half Forward. Jeansy was forced to play Tuck at CHF. The break up of that great following division you spoke of was now almost complete.

The beginning of the greatest era began with the arrival of The Kid. This allowed Tuck to return to the ruck rover role and was central to us winning the 83 Premiership. However three weaknesses remained - Ruck, Full Forward and Rover and it really cost us in 1985. The instant fix occurred with the recruitment of John Platten and the input of Jason Dunstall and Greg Dear. The rest is history.

Dermot Brereton was the start and the heart of that great era.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Dermot Brereton was the start and the heart of that great era.

No intention to denigrate Big Al, Lord....Did alot of the bullocking work at C.H.F & gave over 10 years of great service....Yes, remember Tuck filling in at CHF from 81-82 in Big Al's absence. who left for Richmond with Peter Welsh in 1981 & following on from the path worn by Barry Rowlings 3 years prior....Tucky did a great job of it too....That mark in the goal-square he took against the Cats out at Waverley in 1981, which adorned the front page cover of the Monday Sun, was just awesome!

Yep...Eade Wallace Ablett was a great center-line....Only our current day one of Hill Mitch Smith surpasses it I'd of thought....Can't fault your insights into our mini declines & subsequent recoveries between the years of 72-74 & 79-81 either....Spot on.

Derm was the spiritual leader of the 85-92 era I thought....Tuck & Mew I saw as more the heart & Soul of the club....Still reckon that Bertie belongs right up there alongside of Derm though, when it comes to on-field presence & menace....But we'd do well to remember that they learnt their Craft & honed it as apprentices under the guidance & watch of none other than Barney himself....Matthews words that Hawthorn players were 'Born to play finals' as a birth-right & a God given self-certainty were what stuck with these 2 & spurred them on to their deeds in his wake....Conan made up the triffecta of enforcers that would ultimately steer us to our greatest era thus far in our history.

Also, finally, Wouldn't under-estimate the arrival & influence of one Gary Buckenara in 1982 on that era either....He provided both the polish & the skill which other-wise that team lacked prior to the arrival of Platten....His full recovery & return from his knee injury was a large factor in our dominance of the 1986-1989 period. Which, but for Kernahan's goal after the siren against Norf in the 1987 final round, could well have been 4 in a row & I reckon would have been.

 

[Lord Mud of Glenferrie]

Which, but for Kernahan's goal after the siren against Norf in the 1987 final round, could well have been 4 in a row & I reckon would have been.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, so many great players. That is why I gave up trying to pick the best ever side. I intend to return to the best side ever thread and who were the players that gave so much to the greatness of the Hawthorn Football club. One player I do want to talk about is Greg Dear.

Oddly losing the 84 and 85 grand finals does not affect me in the same way as 1975 and 1987. For some reason I can live with the 84 and 85 losses (absolutely no idea why I can live with 84) but 75 and 87 really get to me. I know that the final scores show big losses but I have always believed that we were robbed. Again, Dermie's comments about 87 are illuminating. As for 75, it was not just Hawthorn vrs the AFL it was Hawthorn vrs the world.

 

[B&GBlood]

That's a bit harsh. IIRC he and Ayres were offered extraordinarily low salaries to stay.

Yes, that is correct and he went to the Swans for the dollars. It was not a criticism it was fact.

 

[The BIG X]

Muddy - 1984 still has a knife in my heart.
1985 - no chance at all. - Our team was done.
1987 - Tankers (not know as that then) were a class above us that year and we lost Bung before the bounce.
1975 - agree world against us.

 

[Dominator68]

Great player, but got a LOT of great service in a great team. Stewart Loewe might have kicked 1000 goals at Hawthorn. Reflection of his career tarnished by stints at Pies and Swans. Also a self admitted thug which didn't help his cause I suspect. Always hard to rank players, but to be fair to Sheehan the CHFs he has in front of Dermie are all time greats.


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[Lord Mud of Glenferrie]

Great player, but got a LOT of great service in a great team. Stewart Loewe might have kicked 1000 goals at Hawthorn. Reflection of his career tarnished by stints at Pies and Swans. Also a self admitted thug which didn't help his cause I suspect. Always hard to rank players, but to be fair to Sheehan the CHFs he has in front of Dermie are all time greats.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Are you trying to tell me Stuart Loewe could kick 1000 goals plus 8000 points, because that was about his strike rate.

Come on list all those all time greats who are ahead of Dermie. Next you will be trying to put it over on this board that Gallagher was better than lethal.

When did Dermie admit he was a thug?

 

[Dominator68]

Come on list all those all time greats who are ahead of Dermie.

Sheahan has Carey, Riewoldt, Brown, Tredrea, Pavlich and Sticks in there. Personally I'd have Derm in front to Tredrea and Pavlich (just). I don't think there would be too many arguments about Carey, Brown and Sticks. Riewoldt was amazing but no flags has to be considered.


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[Procrastinator35]

Sheahan has Carey, Riewoldt, Brown, Tredrea, Pavlich and Sticks in there. Personally I'd have Derm in front to Tredrea and Pavlich (just). I don't think there would be too many arguments about Carey, Brown and Sticks. Riewoldt was amazing but no flags has to be considered.


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If you read up a smite, then you'll find that Derm did not qualify under the category for the past 25 years!....Hence the reason for his absence.

He probably wasn't your typical champion CHF in the Carey/Brown/Riewoldt mold....But what he lacked in size & consistency throughout the Home & Away season (Suspensions often played a big part there)....He more than made up for in September with big finals performances.

Perhaps the question could be framed as: Who was the best big game CHF....Derm would be right up there & likely above all the blokes you've named in your list there....His 5 Premierships SAYS SO!