List Mgmt. 2015 Trade, Draft, Rookie Draft and FA Megathread

[Smoke_Me_AKipper]

Stat from On The Couch -

The average number of disposals per turnover in the AFL is about 6.

The two 'cleanest' players in the comp are David Armitage at 10 disposals per turnover, and Dylan Sheil at 14.6 disposals per turnover.

I said pre-season I would give up our first pick for him. I asked in this thread if he was worth pick #1. While I dont think we will win the spoon I would still be more than happy to give up our first pick for Sheil.

Throw in whatever steak knives you like (WHE is not steak knives) to balance it but yeah... If Sheil is there I would be all over him.

I think you could realistically get Shiel plus steakknives like Hampton or Sumner for pick 2 and maybe a switch of later picks? It depends on how keen the Giants are to clear their decks or not. Hampton and Shiel for example would be a wonderful result....

 

[gringo2011]

While everyone froths over the idea of a Sloane/Shiel etc and they'd be absolutely ideal no doubt.

I'd be happy to go for players like Sumner, Hampton, Wilson, maybe Steele bit more unlikely, Clurey etc. Those fringe types, we've done well targeting them lately.

Then next year go after Hannebery, Sidebottom etc as Free agents and hope we land at least one!

Yeah I have been saying for a while that there are some good players there that would be tempted to move for more time on the field. It's where the real bargains will come from IMO. Gold Coast get let off because they are a little more out of the spot light up there but they have some highly rated kids too. Even clubs like Hawthorn and Sydney should be targeted for talent. Hartung or another kid on the fringe might be tempted to do a Lynch and go elsewhere for more time on the field.

 

[gringo2011]

I think you could realistically get Shiel plus steakknives like Hampton or Sumner for pick 2 and maybe a switch of later picks? It depends on how keen the Giants are to clear their decks or not. Hampton and Shiel for example would be a wonderful result....

I think Hampton could possibly be done for a pick up grade separately from Shiel. The franchises know they will be raided but need to look like they are saving face when it comes to trades. They will not give up players easily IMO. They managed to get Griffin to sell the positives last year. Shiel would need a top 3 pick and they will run it down to the last hour before they hand him over.

 

[dewah07]

I can't say I remember him except for his name. The bio sounds perfect for us though. Pacy mids are what we need more than anything. The navicular fracture is a bit off putting though, they are hard to ever get right.

hes not for us...

 

[Persevering Saint]

Don't underestimate the power of Weller, Hickey, Longer, Bruce and Membrey in all this. Those guys have all come to us from northern state clubs, several of them effectively receiving a lifeline from us, and all of them have been given significant investment and respect by the club. Many of their former teammates probably remain friends with them, and these guys would be in their ears, saying, "Come to the Saints! They'll see you right, just like they did me!" A similar argument could be presented for Roberton and Freo, too.

 

[felsty]

The more I think about the more the discussion of:

Saints 1st (Hopper) and 2nd round picks > Shiel and GWS 1st and 3rd round picks looks like a win-win for both clubs.

Losing Shiel won't mean much to GWS, look at what they have already?

And to solve their issues regarding Hopper (while also possibly solving our possible issues with Rice e.g. 2 x 3rd round picks) seems likely.

Dom Tyson trade FTW!

#standbydominic

(Disclaimer before anyone says someone is getting ripped off, I'm more than happy to change around the picks going to the two clubs to even it up!)

 

[holllywood]

The more I think about the more the discussion of:

Saints 1st (Hopper) and 2nd round picks > Shiel and GWS 1st and 3rd round picks looks like a win-win for both clubs.

Losing Shiel won't mean much to GWS, look at what they have already?

And to solve their issues regarding Hopper (while also possibly solving our possible issues with Rice e.g. 2 x 3rd round picks) seems likely.

Dom Tyson trade FTW!

#standbydominic

(Disclaimer before anyone says someone is getting ripped off, I'm more than happy to change around the picks going to the two clubs to even it up!)

Why would GWS want Hopper over Shiel?

They are finals bound this year and will be pushing top 4 next year (based on current trajectory).

When it comes to winning a final next year, who do you want in your team; Shiel or Hopper?

 

[Mowman]

Don't underestimate the power of Weller, Hickey, Longer, Bruce and Membrey in all this. Those guys have all come to us from northern state clubs, several of them effectively receiving a lifeline from us, and all of them have been given significant investment and respect by the club. Many of their former teammates probably remain friends with them, and these guys would be in their ears, saying, "Come to the Saints! They'll see you right, just like they did me!" A similar argument could be presented for Roberton and Freo, too.

Great point

 

[Smoke_Me_AKipper]

Why would GWS want Hopper over Shiel?

They are finals bound this year and will be pushing top 4 next year (based on current trajectory).

When it comes to winning a final next year, who do you want in your team; Shiel or Hopper?

The only reason why is that Shiel has been vocal apparently behind club doors so to speak that he wants to return to Melbourne....like Rahul (and myself) have said. If he doesn't sign within a month then I reckon he's leaving.

Although it isn't necessarily to us - many other clubs would be keen - Collingwood is one that springs to mind....

 

[Strahany]

Trust me, if we're still valuing the personality of players, then we'll be passing right over Sumner. Loveable muppet, but not what we want.

 

[SK_MD_#7]

Trust me, if we're still valuing the personality of players, then we'll be passing right over Sumner. Loveable muppet, but not what we want.

And you're judging that on what?

 

[gringo2011]

The only reason why is that Shiel has been vocal apparently behind club doors so to speak that he wants to return to Melbourne....like Rahul (and myself) have said. If he doesn't sign within a month then I reckon he's leaving.

Although it isn't necessarily to us - many other clubs would be keen - Collingwood is one that springs to mind....

Yeah that's my impression too. He's the one who might want out. The club would be devastated to lose him but they didn't want to lose any of the others they have either. If he doesn't re-sign he is at least holding out seeing what offers come. He is either going to stretch their cap space or come back to Melbourne. If GCS and Carlton finish below us they are the only ones with more to offer but the players seems to chose these days.

 

[dewah07]

And you're judging that on what?

he went to st.bedes (1 year above me), our deputy at our school that answered to AFL clubs warned them of his attitude and lack of care for school.

would constantly skip classes rock up in poor uniform got an ATAR in the 30's

 

[SK_MD_#7]

he went to st.bedes (1 year above me), our deputy at our school that answered to AFL clubs warned them of his attitude and lack of care for school

So you're basing it on schooling really?

That was 4-5 years ago. People mature you know.. He was 17/18 back then is now 21/22.

I take it you were an angel at school?

 

[dewah07]

So you're basing it on schooling really?

That was 4-5 years ago. People mature you know.. He was 17/18 back then is now 21/22.

I take it you were an angel at school?

well thats all i can go off so why should i bother changing my view unless i hear something about him.

im not on a witch hunt, he did it himself

 

[Smoke_Me_AKipper]

Yeah that's my impression too. He's the one who might want out. The club would be devastated to lose him but they didn't want to lose any of the others they have either. If he doesn't re-sign he is at least holding out seeing what offers come. He is either going to stretch their cap space or come back to Melbourne. If GCS and Carlton finish below us they are the only ones with more to offer but the players seems to chose these days.

The only thing not in our favour is that players Shiel included generally want finals and success etc. Whilst we don't have that yet it isn't difficult to able to sell what we are doing, especially as the industry recognises that we're going about it in the right way.

No way would he go to Carlton/GC - I'd bet my new apartment in the inner north on that! It'll be Collingwood, Richmond, St Kilda would be the main suitors I would think....but as you say - the player himself seems to choose...

 

[gringo2011]

The only thing not in our favour is that players Shiel included generally want finals and success etc. Whilst we don't have that yet it isn't difficult to able to sell what we are doing, especially as the industry recognises that we're going about it in the right way.

No way would he go to Carlton/GC - I'd bet my new apartment in the inner north on that! It'll be Collingwood, Richmond, St Kilda would be the main suitors I would think....but as you say - the player himself seems to choose...

True but some like to come into a group on the up and get there with the youth. Judd for instance at Carlton and even Goddard went to an improving Essendon. That's why it's important to keep up a level of performance these days. I doubt any player would gladly choose the Dees unless they were getting serious overs.

 

[Punter!]

If Shiel wants to go, we are really well placed to trade for him.
DP # 2 (potentially) $$$ and upward trajectory as a club.

The only risk I see is if a player like Weitering or Parish is going to be better than Shiel? That's a tough one. Shiel also helps the age profile of our list.

It would be great to land a fringe player as well, as part of the deal. We can offer more opportunity to players like Bruce and hopefully GWS won't try to stop those sorts of players leaving, especially when they are likely going to add Hopper and another 1st round pick to their list.

GWS also won't be interested in 3rd-4th round picks. They will likely only use 3 picks in the draft. We could perhaps steal their late 3rd round pick as well? (Late 40's)

 

[dewah07]

If Shiel wants to go, we are really well placed to trade for him.
DP # 2 (potentially) $$$ and upward trajectory as a club.

The only risk I see is if a player like Weitering or Parish is going to be better than Shiel? That's a tough one. Shiel also helps the age profile of our list.

It would be great to land a fringe player as well, as part of the deal. We can offer more opportunity to players like Bruce and hopefully GWS won't try to stop those sorts of players leaving, especially when they are likely going to add Hopper and another 1st round pick to their list.

GWS also won't be interested in 3rd-4th round picks. They will likely only use 3 picks in the draft. We could perhaps steal their late 3rd round pick as well? (Late 40's)

if that happens, we live with it. just gotta get it done if we have the chance

 

[VDS66]

if that happens, we live with it. just gotta get it done if we have the chance

agree. Bird in the hand etc etc.

Shiel wants to play in Melb on the big stage.

 

[dewah07]

listen to this on Audioboo

from the pod
Sam Weideman done for the season

 

[The Punter]

I would think that GWS would do all they can to keep Shiel, but if they come to the conclusion that they cannot, then they will probably look to lock in Hopper, and we would be perfectly placed to help them do that (as long as we get Shiel in return).

 

[saintbill]

agree. Bird in the hand etc etc.

Shiel wants to play in Melb on the big stage.

If Shiel wants to play on the big stage, unfortunately he will not choose us. We play at Etihad in front of 20K crowds with virtually no prime time slots.

If this is something he values he will end up at Collingwood or Richmond if he comes back to Melbourne. Carlton suck so he won't go there, nobody of sane mind would choose to go to the dopers & Hawks can't afford him, so that really just leaves the Pies or Richmond that offer the opportunity to play at the G in front of big crowds.

Don't get me wrong I would love to get Shiel, but I am not confident at all he would choose us as a destination if he is after more exposure.

 

[Strahany]

So you're basing it on schooling really?

That was 4-5 years ago. People mature you know.. He was 17/18 back then is now 21/22.

I take it you were an angel at school?

Not much has changed.

 

[SK_MD_#7]

Not much has changed.

Fair enough.

If the club took the punt though i'll back the decision.