Port and North - A Brief Dip or an Extended Slide Into Mediocrity?

[half_back_flank]

North have overreached. As harsh as it sounds, they aren't in a strong enough financial position to push for a premiership. Should have consolidated with a few finals performance, instead they get in blokes like Waite and are in real danger of slipping back into the mid 2000s. Make no mistake, a couple of single figure win seasons will erode most of the great work of the last 8 years.

 

[Grogg]

Coach lost the plot the moment he threw the Captain under a bus & proceeded to publicly blow the guy who tried to stove his face in.

Probably lost his players about the same time.

Can't comment on Port with any great authority or confidence, but their issues seem to be tactical more than any endemic player or list issues.

North need a rebuild on and off field, Port probably a couple of new minds assisting the coach in the box and that's about it.

 

[Lemma]

We're not the first and won't be the last team to overrate their list, but now is a good time to start again. What we lack is players that have effort that is consistently brought every week. You can count on one hand the amount of players who fall into that category this year.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Coach lost the plot the moment he threw the Captain under a bus & proceeded to publicly blow the guy who tried to stove his face in.

Probably lost his players about the same time.

Can't comment on Port with any great authority or confidence, but their issues seem to be tactical more than any endemic player or list issues.

North need a rebuild on and off field, Port probably a couple of new minds assisting the coach in the box and that's about it.

what does the first para mean?

 

[PetterdHoisted]

North have overreached. As harsh as it sounds, they aren't in a strong enough financial position to push for a premiership.

Lol had to be a magpie$ fan with this post.

 

[Ry009]

what does the first para mean?

The Hodge/Swallow incident.

 

[Grogg]

what does the first para mean?

Post game comments vs Hawthorn early this season. The game where Hodge and Lewis were both rubbed out for cheap hits on Swallow (Hodge), Goldy (Lewis). Swallow publicly baked for his reaction. The issue wasn't that the coach took exception to his Captains reaction, it was the manner he chose & that he chose to do so publicly.

 

[LeverPuller]

North 2015 = Freo 2007.

Nah. Norf are too old.
Thompson, Firrito, Harvey, Petrie, Waite, Dal Santo, Wells, Grima, McMahon all 29+. Thats a huge part of the list.

 

[L_W_P]

Ive said this in various threads but North feel like a souless club. Brad Scott's move to destroy the "Shinboner Spirit" has backfired big time.

They have alot more talent than most lists but they dont often play with any heart or sense of togetherness. They feel like 22 individuals who all happen to wear the same colours.

Sack Scott, Ziebell captain and put in a massive media/PR campaign around the Shinboner Spirit.Membership tagline something like "Summon the Spirit"

Just all out nasty, aggressive football. Let the talent carry them in close games but build a foundation of being ruthless first.

 

[Lemma]

^Great post. Like this a lot

 

[shintemaster]

Nah. Norf are too old.
Thompson, Firrito, Harvey, Petrie, Waite, Dal Santo, Wells, Grima, McMahon all 29+. Thats a huge part of the list.

The positive is that 3 of them aren't playing games and of the rest only NDS & Harvey are playing decent footy. I don't actually think we'll get worse without them, possibly the opposite.

 

[WowWeee]

need a new coach, and some more young bloods. Why would you move the team's most dangerous midfield/flanker in harvey into the back line and keep giving games to disposal butchers..............

 

[LeverPuller]

The positive is that 3 of them aren't playing games and of the rest only NDS & Harvey are playing decent footy. I don't actually think we'll get worse without them, possibly the opposite.

Yeah but thats 9/44 gone (10 actually, Gisbon too), almost guaranteed, in 5 years. That's before you look at the age profile of the rest. You're talking about turning over minimum 10 players due to age and replacing them with draftees...none of which are guaranteed. That hurts.

 

[Engimal]

Nah. Norf are too old.
Thompson, Firrito, Harvey, Petrie, Waite, Dal Santo, Wells, Grima, McMahon all 29+. Thats a huge part of the list.

Wells and Grima have barely played anyway (Grima will retire this year, too) and McMahon hasn't aside from a brief cameo due to an injury.

8 of the 22 that played tonight were 24 or under, with guys like McDonald and Brown sitting on the sidelines. That's not to say that our list doesn't have work to do, but our age issue is not a huge problem right now. We'll probably only have Grima and McMahon retiring this year, while Firrito may or may not.

 

[HTPunter]

I'm not sure many people, other than maybe North supporters, really thought that North were on the precipice of proving themselves as legitimate challengers in 2015.

Port yes, North no. They were smashed in the preliminary final and I don't think anyone expected any other result

There's a big difference between 'legitimate challengers' and getting comprehensively flogged in 4.5 (Collingwood game the .5) games of football in half a season.

Somewhere in between was reasonable (4-7th).

 

[HTPunter]

Everyone banging on about age but really it does not matter at all - Hawks have an abundance of old farts who are on the cusp of retirement.

The main problem for North (and why the Hawks age doesn't matter) is lack of leadership. You don't get 4.5 floggings in half a season with a reasonable amount of leadership. It is seemingly an on-field problem only, but who knows what goes on behind the scenes. A lot of blame must rest on Scott, who has had half a decade to implement leadership values and abilities into the side. He has failed miserably. Blame must also go on a bunch of the senior guys (not just the 30+ blokes, but Ziebell, Swallow, Macmillan), who simply have to show more. Rebuild incoming. Honestly do think we have the middle aged players to keep us out of the bottom 4, but it'll be another slow, hard, off-field difficult rebuild imo.

Meanwhile, Port don't have a bloke over 30 now with Cornes gone do they? But they are seemingly either just down on form or they just aren't that good - they lack depth in all areas of the ground (Port fans will point to SANFL results but I mean they have a solid first 4 mids - Gray, Boak, Wines, Ebert, a couple of good talls and smalls either end - but their 11-22nd players don't seem to be the standard of the too 4-6 clubs), their forward line doesn't seem to function (and Schulz throws himself at contests like they're his last - not great for a full consistent season) and they do have some worries with their key backs. Who knows? Could go top 4 next year if Ryder & Monfries are cleared, Polec gets a full season, Young and a few others kick on...or they could continue to rely on too few (Gray, Ebert, Wines, Wingard seem to star every week while the rest pick and choose on when to turn up) and be a middle of the road side.

 

[brysie]

There's a big difference between 'legitimate challengers' and getting comprehensively flogged in 4.5 (Collingwood game the .5) games of football in half a season.

Somewhere in between was reasonable (4-7th).

I agree. No-one expected that North would be 'legitimate' challengers, except maybe the OP and a few others.

North were making up the numbers last season, and they're just another number this season, albeit a lower number. Port on the other hand looked like a team ready to explode; reality is, this season they have imploded.

I thought that North 'overachieved' last season. They were never going to challenge for a flag, and won't this season, however are still capable of playing the odd decent game. I don't see them on the way up, but probably on the way down, due to a number of factors including the improvement of a number of teams between last season and this season

 

[HTPunter]

I categorically reject your first paragraph, North beat every other team in the top 8 or 10 last season indicating that is was a long way from a 'meh' Home and Away season. They showed a genuine ability to compete with and beat the best sides and genuinely deserved their prelim appearance.

I completely agree with your second paragraph though. We have a lot of players in the 20-24 age group that seem to have hit a far lower ceiling than many anticipated.

Even if the likes of Bastinac, Atley, Macmillan hit a consistent B-grader level, we'd be a lot better. Still crying out for Ziebell or Cunnington to become genuinely elite, but they are at least performing - guys like Bastinac & Atley have been around long enough that they should be emerging leaders and yet they wouldn't get a game in at MINIMUM 50% of sides.

 

[HTPunter]

I posted this about North and Port two years ago.

Is this like where you didn't rate Collingwood last year, but it was found a week later you had them top 4 in your rankings? Sure you've got Port in the top somewhere along the lines.

 

[shumo]

Everyone banging on about age but really it does not matter at all - Hawks have an abundance of old farts who are on the cusp of retirement.

The window of the Hawks is closing. The difference between their old farts and yours is talent and prior success.

 

[Faysals Swans]

what does the first para mean?

He gave a blow job to the captain under a bus in a stove

 

[WCErevival]

Port will be ok they just need some tweaks to the list and gameplan. A key forward would help. I don't know what to make of North. Look similar to where Essendon are at in a way with a group of older guys ready for retirement.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Port have been found out and will need to renveint themselves. Run and carry is not enough.

North just fluked 2014.

 

[brysie]

Even if the likes of Bastinac, Atley, Macmillan hit a consistent B-grader level, we'd be a lot better. Still crying out for Ziebell or Cunnington to become genuinely elite, but they are at least performing - guys like Bastinac & Atley have been around long enough that they should be emerging leaders and yet they wouldn't get a game in at MINIMUM 50% of sides.

This is a good assessment of North, surprisingly from a North supporter.

They have been a decent side for awhile now, and will continue to be a decent side capable of producing the odd game of scintillating and devastating footy, however a lot of their players have not improved to the point that they produce scintillating and devastating footy week in week out, as the top teams tend to do.

Ziebell for mine will never be consistently elite, only on occasion. The same can be said for a number of North's midfielders who are good such as Cunnington and Bastinac, but won't get to the next level as in my view they don't have the pace required. Atley is someone who has the pace required to become elite, however if he is played at half back then he'll be reliant on a good team performance to shine, particularly if his midfield is getting beaten ahead of him.

The glaring deficiency which North have failed to address is their forward line. Their back line is ok and gets by, however they could benefit with recruiting a big target in their forward line to straighten them up. Waite is not the answer, even though he is a very good player when he's on.

 

[Lemma]

Guys in the 2008/9 drafts that should have pressed on to be genuine good players just haven't. Bastinac, Atley are prime examples.