Rumour Bluemour Discussion thread

[HARKER]

The answer is simple, because nobody wants to take the responsibility of presenting an alternative viable option.

People are more than happy to sit back and throw stones at the regime, yet they are unapposed?

"If you are not part of the solution, you are a part of the problem"

There have been some that want to be part of the solution...........but the road had too many twists and turns.

 

[Doro]

The answer is simple, because nobody wants to take the responsibility of presenting an alternative viable option.

People are more than happy to sit back and throw stones at the regime, yet they are unapposed?

"If you are not part of the solution, you are a part of the problem"

This is it in a nutshell. Lots of supporters with Sellers-itis few putting up the hand. No point getting worked up about it.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Which other basket is there ODN? It's the AFL's fault?
Let's keep blaming the employees and not the employers? Really?

Why wouldn't we want to have 'another shot at things?'
Which part of this business is doing things well? Which part?................Why's that?

Someone try selling this lot and their achievements to any of the other 17 clubs..........................Good luck

How about considering there is enough blame to go around Harks? You are hell bent on painting Rogers and Malthouse as martyrs and anybody that played a part in their demise as the only problem, therefore SOS is condemned before he has even got going.

If you showed a modicum of objectivity and allowed for all possibilities it would be easier to hold the discussion.

Right now you are agitating for change without knowing what that change will look like. It's like a mantra. The cynic in me tells me that there might be another unofficial supporter group laying the ground work for a future challenge, such is the escalation of this angle.

So nothing is working. Sack them all, then what? How will a new board help the membership department get more members? How will a new board help the marketers managers market the club better?

Of course employees have to take some blame. They were hired with a particular skill set to do a particular job. You can suggest the wrong people were hired, but then who are the right people? It's hindsight finger pointing.

On field is not working ... but you don't want coaches or recruiters to take any responsibility.

The main problem as I see it is the presence of powerbrokers and the extra influence their cash gives them. We have to replace that money to get rid of the problem and I have not seen anybody suggest how that might be done. I've said time and time again I don't like powerbrokers and I have not warmed to MLG. I'm smart enough to know you don't act without a plan though.

Really easy to make a sweeping judgment, really hard to come up with an alternative.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

There have been some that want to be part of the solution...........but the road had too many twists and turns.

Those people are quitters

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

There have been some that want to be part of the solution...........but the road had too many twists and turns.

Then they didn't really want it then. They want a board to stand aside so they can walk in and do things their way. If you have the heart for the fight, get in there, hang on to your spot, put forward good ideas and wait for the members to make changes. If the members won't make changes, then they shouldn't comment.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

............and why is that?

Why wouldn't underachievers want to set out to 'put things right?'
Why will all the periphery change, but the people that got us to where we are remain?

Is the answer really that difficult?

This is rhetoric Harks. The whole board has not been there for all of our down times. How about you name names on the board, tell us what they do or don't contribute to the club and what their area of responsibility is instead of referring to them as a collective faceless entity?

I remember Ken Hunter being on the board and being one that would swim upstream on many issues. There are board members who don't think alike. Maybe it's only a couple of changes we need for the status quo to be broken. Don't go throwing out the bay with the bathwater.

 

[HARKER]

How about considering there is enough blame to go around Harks? You are hell bent on painting Rogers and Malthouse as martyrs and anybody that played a part in their demise as the only problem, therefore SOS is condemned before he has even got going.

If you showed a modicum of objectivity and allowed for all possibilities it would be easier to hold the discussion.

Right now you are agitating for change without knowing what that change will look like. It's like a mantra. The cynic in me tells me that there might be another unofficial supporter group laying the ground work for a future challenge, such is the escalation of this angle.

So nothing is working. Sack them all, then what? How will a new board help the membership department get more members? How will a new board help the marketers managers market the club better?

Of course employees have to take some blame. They were hired with a particular skill set to do a particular job. You can suggest the wrong people were hired, but then who are the right people? It's hindsight finger pointing.

On field is not working ... but you don't want coaches or recruiters to take any responsibility.

The main problem as I see it is the presence of powerbrokers and the extra influence their cash gives them. We have to replace that money to get rid of the problem and I have not seen anybody suggest how that might be done. I've said time and time again I don't like powerbrokers and I have not warmed to MLG. I'm smart enough to know you don't act without a plan though.

Really easy to make a sweeping judgment, really hard to come up with an alternative.

I backed our methods a couple of years ago but what's transpired since to say that "our methods were sound?" Remember Dubya?

O.K. so I'm being subjective............Sell me the achievements and methods of our chiefs in the past three years? Give it a go.........

I know full well why I feel the way I do, but go ahead and sell me our boards achievements.

 

[JustaBattler]

Without a clear understanding of how much money and where it comes from and how it is connected to each member of the Board - no one can say why the incumbents are incumbent.

It is telling that Visy Park is no longer Visy and is now Icon or something - wouldn't be surprised to see Jeannie off the Board soon. No one knows the exact details of what Matheson contributes - and his deal with Carlton re Pokies- all confidential..so how much has he and does he contribute? We Do know that Edelstein was able to get a seat behind Malthouse- for how much ?

The Club is clearly desperate for dollars... and millions thrown its way by connected sponsorship deals or direct donation - are millions. Who replaces that resource if the people responsible for bringing it to the Club are ousted...and why should they - what strings would be attached?

Carlton needs a fiscal strategy that removes the need to have so called benefactors...who is going to deliver that piece of magic?

Start with answering the money question - before getting ahead of yourselves talking about sacking a Board and replacing it with nuff nuffs.

 

[LanceRomance]

Theres a better chance of a 106 year old Harold Holt turning up on the shores of Portsea alive and well than there is of us removing the current board.

I'm going to vote for the random crackpot next time

 

[Juddrockz]

Any chance of a rumour??

 

[HARKER]

This is rhetoric Harks. The whole board has not been there for all of our down times. How about you name names on the board, tell us what they do or don't contribute to the club and what their area of responsibility is instead of referring to them as a collective faceless entity?
I remember Ken Hunter being on the board and being one that would swim upstream on many issues. There are board members who don't think alike. Maybe it's only a couple of changes we need for the status quo to be broken. Don't go throwing out the bay with the bathwater.

That may be a bit hard to do..................................which bay exactly, though?

We all think in different ways and whilst I acknowledge that there is ever an absolute truth, I generally join the dots pretty well......although of course, I may be wrong. I just can't see where though, as the facts have come to the fore already. We just can't run a business.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I backed our methods a couple of years ago but what's transpired since to say that "our methods were sound?" Remember Dubya?

O.K. so I'm being subjective............Sell me the achievements and methods of our chiefs in the past three years? Give it a go.........

I know full well why I feel the way I do, but go ahead and sell me our boards achievements.

Wait a second. You don't want to answer any of my queries because you know why you feel the way you do, yet you consistently raise this stuff (which derails this thread over and over btw) in an effort to influence the discussion.

I want you to influence me Harks. You know I'm a good one for thrashing stuff out. Convince me.

Very easy to point to a poorly performing club and suggest people aren't doing their jobs, however you are actually saying that the employees are all good but the board are not allowing them to perform. You've backed certain employees because you have heard their complaints. I haven't heard those complaints and I haven't heard the counter arguments to those complaints.

You're talking in riddles quite often and not your usual succinct stuff. If I didn't know better, I'd suggest that you were possessed by Synbad.

What you are really saying ... and this has come up before is that you know stuff, you're well respected on the forums as are a couple of other posters you agree with, and that people should trust in what you say. Surely you know forums don't work that way?

I'd much rather you actually admit that some coaches, some staff had not done the job they were paid for, instead of suggesting the board are the only problem. Get a new board with the same staff, how are those staff going to find the numbers? How were they prevented from doing their jobs beforehand?

As I said, plenty of blame to go around.

Besides, who hires the staff ... the board or the CEO and relevant department heads?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Any chance of a rumour??

Rumours are posted in the Bluemour File thread. There are two threads.

This is a recording.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I'm going to vote for the random crackpot next time

I'm opting for the 'Bring back Fev' candidate.

 

[HARKER]

Wait a second. You don't want to answer any of my queries because you know why you feel the way you do, yet you consistently raise this stuff (which derails this thread over and over btw) in an effort to influence the discussion.

I want you to influence me Harks. You know I'm a good one for thrashing stuff out. Convince me.

Hasn't the club done that for you already? No? Why not?

I've put forward as much a I can over the course of a couple of threads already.
Let's not let this become the 9/11 thread where it does full circle over and again................so let's throw the shoe on the other foot?

Sell me the virtues of our current board.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Without a clear understanding of how much money and where it comes from and how it is connected to each member of the Board - no one can say why the incumbents are incumbent.

It is telling that Visy Park is no longer Visy and is now Icon or something - wouldn't be surprised to see Jeannie off the Board soon. No one knows the exact details of what Matheson contributes - and his deal with Carlton re Pokies- all confidential..so how much has he and does he contribute? We Do know that Edelstein was able to get a seat behind Malthouse- for how much ?

The Club is clearly desperate for dollars... and millions thrown its way by connected sponsorship deals or direct donation - are millions. Who replaces that resource if the people responsible for bringing it to the Club are ousted...and why should they - what strings would be attached?

Carlton needs a fiscal strategy that removes the need to have so called benefactors...who is going to deliver that piece of magic?

Start with answering the money question - before getting ahead of yourselves talking about sacking a Board and replacing it with nuff nuffs.

This is it. I want nothing more than for the club to be answerable to members, not powerbrokers. What a glorious day that will be. We have a lot of groundwork to do before that can happen. Eradicate the debt so any downturn from losing those money men contributions doesn't kill us off quickly for a start.

We're playing the long game (again) with our on field fortunes. We have to play the long game as far as control of the club as well. I haven't seen enough of MLG and Trigg and certainly not SOS to be able to judge them properly.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

This is it. I want nothing more than for the club to be answerable to members, not powerbrokers. What a glorious day that will be.

That's all well and good, but those money boys are the ones that bring in the big money sponsors...........not the members.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Hasn't the club done that for you already? No? Why not?

I've put forward as much a I can over the course of a couple of threads already.
Let's not let this become the 9/11 thread where it does full circle over and again................so let's throw the shoe on the other foot?

Sell me the virtues of our current board.

You've put forward nothing Harks, aside from allegations of whiteanting of Mick and Rogers and a sweeping 'nothing is working, blame the board' mantra.

The board is not one entity. It is a group of individuals that vote on key issues. They do not run every aspect of the club and are not at the club on a day to day basis. They have different backgrounds and different skills and have been there for different amounts of time.

As for the club convincing me already ... yes they have. The club ... board ... footy department ... marketing managers ... sponsorship managers ... CEOs ... coaches ... recruiters ... and players. All have had a part to play.

You however, want to exonerate some on a 'the buck stops here' philosophy.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

That's all well and good, but those money boys are the ones that bring in the big money sponsors...........not the members.

Agreed. That's why I acknowledge they are a necessary evil at the moment. In fact if the club was more inclusive and the powerbrokers less visible, we wouldn't even care that they were there.

 

[tipstar]

I thought this was the RUMOUR DISCUSSION thread??? Not general chit chat??

 

[Blue Flame]

Hasn't the club done that for you already? No? Why not?

I've put forward as much a I can over the course of a couple of threads already.
Let's not let this become the 9/11 thread where it does full circle over and again................so let's throw the shoe on the other foot?

Sell me the virtues of our current board.

Nobody's saying that the current board is virtuous. Neither are we suggesting we know details of individuals on the board. What is being said is:
1. There is plenty of blame to be shared. Recruiters, coaches, ceo and board all played a part.
2. Without information (that you are suggesting you might have) about who does what on the board, and without an alternative, spilling the board is not an option that many can buy into.
3. For whatever reason, and you seem to claim knowledge here too, the board remain unopposed. Many complaints and no action is what it looks like.
4. You are informed and intelligent. The issue is this, without information, which you suggest you have, people are going to struggle to oust the board, which you claim is the only way forward.
If you believe this, then rather than bait people to sell you the board, tell us what we need to know.

 

[King of Ruin]

I thought this was the RUMOUR DISCUSSION thread??? Not general chit chat??

You don't come here often then, do you?

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Agreed. That's why I acknowledge they are a necessary evil at the moment. In fact if the club was more inclusive and the powerbrokers less visible, we wouldn't even care that they were there.

You're dead right, the sides up the top, Hawthorn, Freo, Swans, it's all about the club, optimistic and always looking to the future. Wouldn't even know who's on their boards.

That Kernahan comment "We're Carlton **** the rest" has been an albatross to this club.

Anytime we get someone from the outside, they are just riding for a fall.......'oh yeah, but he's from Collingwood' type stuff.

Club has been re-active for so many years, yet when things go wrong it's that guys fault.

.....and the number of mixed messages coming out of Princes Park............makes your head spin.

Don't care who's running the place, just get them all on the same page.

 

[Wickzki]

.....and the number of mixed messages coming out of Princes Park............makes your head spin.

Don't care who's running the place, just get them all on the same page.

This right here is the absolute biggest issue with the club. You need a unified message at every level if you're going to take yourself seriously let alone anybody else. When that happens it'll be funny just how quickly everything else starts falling into place.

 

[HARKER]

You've put forward nothing Harks, aside from allegations of whiteanting of Mick and Rogers and a sweeping 'nothing is working, blame the board' mantra.

The board is not one entity. It is a group of individuals that vote on key issues. They do not run every aspect of the club and are not at the club on a day to day basis. They have different backgrounds and different skills and have been there for different amounts of time.

As for the club convincing me already ... yes they have. The club ... board ... footy department ... marketing managers ... sponsorship managers ... CEOs ... coaches ... recruiters ... and players. All have had a part to play.

You however, want to exonerate some on a 'the buck stops here' philosophy.

I must be aligned with our leaders then..................just keeping things consistent.

Let's talk at the end of the year........maybe we can formulate some of our boards virtues by then.