Society/Culture Feminism part 1 - continued in part 2

[CM86]

Well that's a fairly awful thing to say/assume

Similar to victim blaming actually.

I had you on ignore and after taking you off, the first post confirms that you really should remain on ignore.

I don't look unfavourably on females. I have two daughters that I am raising into strong, intelligent, confident women. You are projecting a hatred of women onto me because I don't like modern mainstream feminism. I doubt any woman that knows me would agree with your poorly informed assessment.

I'll put you back on ignore now because there are already enough people in this thread telling me what I think and believe and you're the least intelligent of the lot.

Is it any wonder why I normally just reply to the two of you with;
?

I mean... I thought for a second, that this thread had turned into a discussion forum... and asked you an actual question, without any insult.

It's replied to by FBI saying it's victim blaming... (Wut?).
And Flea saying "Off ignore, you're a loser, on ignore".

I mean "How can I be sexist, I had a daughter?".

If you actually stopped to think about the position that you're in, flea, you might realise why you have this animosity towards feminism.
But that would require thinking, instead of clenched fists.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Is it any wonder why I normally just reply to the two of you with;
?

I mean... I thought for a second, that this thread had turned into a discussion forum... and asked you an actual question, without any insult.

It's replied to by FBI saying it's victim blaming... (Wut?).
And Flea saying "Off ignore, you're a loser, on ignore".

I mean "How can I be sexist, I had a daughter?".

If you actually stopped to think about the position that you're in, flea, you might realise why you have this animosity towards feminism.
But that would require thinking, instead of clenched fists.

I thought you were implying that he had a hatred for women because he was sepparated from his partner, i felt that was out of line, and to an extent analagous to victim shaming.

If you didn't mean that then go on.

 

[CM86]

I thought you were implying that he had a hatred for women because he was sepparated from his partner, i felt that was out of line, and to an extent analagous to victim shaming.

If you didn't mean that then go on.

What did you think I meant, when I said:
"Oh?
How?"
?

I asked him if it was possible, that he held a certain view, due to his past or current experiences. Not if he hated women because he "was separated[sic] from his partner".

Can you point out how my post could possibly be "analagous" to victim blaming. And how victim blaming is synonymous to victim shaming?

 

[romeohwho]

Some people can do that. Some people don't want to. It's not as easy as you make it sound for everybody. People living pay cheque to pay cheque can't always work the hours that suit them or step into and out of their job whenever they feel like it. It often makes sense for the man to keep on working.

Yep-completely get that it is not easy and the arrangement is mostly females stay at home for understandable reasons. But it does mean that many women are behind the eight ball when they do return to work in terms of experience, salary, superannuation-all of which can contribute to problems (if a woman is keen to pursue a high-powered career she is disadvantaged and it hasn't been necessarily her 'choice' to stay home (as outlined above). If a couple divorce, the female may be disadvantaged by job limitations. So the workforce is pre-diposed, because of not unreasonable situations, to the spouse who goes to work.

 

[cartwright]

???

Okay, primary care giver then. You think men were never primary care givers before feminism? I struggle to see how I have feminism to thank for the opportunity to raise my kids when I was the only parent willing to sacrifice my own plans to do so. In any era, I would have been able to do the same thing. If there's anything to thank feminism for, it's that my ex-wife can pay little to no child support (she only began paying anything within the last 12 months, despite being in a better financial situation than myself and her children for several years), have a history of putting the kids in potentially unsafe situations and still have mediators taking her side and asking for further concessions from me.

Really? How many men, in your fathers era took time off work to look after their children. In mine, I dont know any.

I think it's quite obvious that gender equality in the workplace also affords men the option to stay at home. Especially when in some scenarios the woman earns more. Flexibility for both genders.

The way you talk about people taking days off and jumping in and out of their jobs at will, it's clear that you're from a relatively privileged background. Even if they'd been ahead of their time in their attitudes to gender roles, my great-grandparents, grandparents and parents weren't in a position to sacrifice any of their income while they had young children. For my great-grandfather/grandfather/step-father to ask their boss for a day off every week so that their wife could go out and look for work was just not an option. This is still true in a lot of cases today. Families on a tight budget, doing what makes the most sense for them.

Both my parents worked 7 days a week. My sister and I effectively raised ourselves and our younger siblings, including cooking and cleaning as mum was at work.

Most families do what is best -

Not sure why you're bringing up grandparents, where work was 9-5. Thing is today, due to technology, working hours can be a lot more flexible.

The decision to have the man continuously working (which in the case of low income families probably means going to a shitty underpaid job that you dislike) and the woman take care of the house and children, possibly working part-time or casually, is not necessarily a sexist decision but a practical one that benefits the whole family.

If you can't see that there are more options today for both men and women, then I think you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

[kfc1]

Yep-completely get that it is not easy and the arrangement is mostly females stay at home for understandable reasons. But it does mean that many women are behind the eight ball when they do return to work in terms of experience, salary, superannuation-all of which can contribute to problems (if a woman is keen to pursue a high-powered career she is disadvantaged and it hasn't been necessarily been her 'choice' to stay home (as outlined above). If a couple divorce, the female may be disadvantaged by job limitations. So the workforce is pre-diposed, because of not unreasonable situations, to the spouse who goes to work.

You dont seem to understand what a 'choice' is. Like anyone else in the workforce, a woman who takes a year or two off, or part time, will be behind someone who worked full time or full time plus in that same period. A woman has the choice to minimise the impact of time taken off by going back to work but that might resuly in less money for the family unit so therefore they choose to take the better paying option.

 

[CM86]

You dont seem to understand what a 'choice' is. Like anyone else in the workforce, a woman who takes a year or two off, or part time, will be behind someone who worked full time or full time plus in that same period. A woman has the choice to minimise the impact of time taken off by going back to work but that might resuly in less money for the family unit so therefore they choose to take the better paying option.

You've posted some troll-worthy material... But even you must admit that you can't keep a straight face when you posted this?

 

[romeohwho]

You've posted some troll-worthy material... But even you must admit that you can't keep a straight face when you posted this?

Haha -Precisely why I don't bother to converse with chippie!

 

[kfc1]

You've posted some troll-worthy material... But even you must admit that you can't keep a straight face when you posted this?

U disagree?

 

[CM86]

U disagree?

Don't get me wrong... I, and the general majority, think you're stupid...

But even you must understand that being the female in a heterosexual relationship... means that you will be the incubator... regardless of choice...?

I mean... Yeah, your education is mostly from 2 and 1/2 men... but you must have picked something else up... along the way?...

Guess not...

 

[kfc1]

Don't get me wrong... I, and the general majority, think you're stupid...

But even you must understand that being the female in a heterosexual relationship... means that you will be the incubator... regardless of choice...?

I mean... Yeah, your education is mostly from 2 and 1/2 men... but you must have picked something else up... along the way?...

Guess not...

Where did i dispute this?
Everything other than being the incubator is a choice.

 

[CM86]

Where did i dispute this?
Everything other than being the incubator is a choice.

You asked if I disagreed... I redirected your question. You asked where it was disputed.

Based on your post of saying that time off to birth and raise a child is a choice... I'm not sure why you're now asking me if you dispute something that you've not asked me to dispute definitively...

Can I ask you for the stats that any woman ever, has asked to be an incubator?
Can you give me the stats on where a male is relied on for breast feeding?
Can you give me the stats, on where a female is relief on and supported for a major career, regardless of their ability as an "incubator"?
Vs men who can create the "incubator" scenario...?

I'll... wait... lel...

 

[kfc1]

You asked if I disagreed... I redirected your question. You asked where it was disputed.

Based on your post of saying that time off to birth and raise a child is a choice... I'm not sure why you're now asking me if you dispute something that you've not asked me to dispute definitively...

Can I ask you for the stats that any woman ever, has asked to be an incubator?
Can you give me the stats on where a male is relied on for breast feeding?
Can you give me the stats, on where a female is relief on and supported for a major career, regardless of their ability as an "incubator"?
Vs men who can create the "incubator" scenario...?

I'll... wait... lel...

So i asked if you disagree and you responded with a 'redirection' so you didnt actually disagree with me. Ok. This is why i dont bother with you these days.

The rest of your post is gibberish. Everything other than the biological reality of being the incubator* is a choice, from whether to have kids, to the timing to how long to take off work, when to go back and whether man or woman becomes primary provider.

* even this can be a choice these days. Adoption and surrogacy are available options.

Before you derailed it, the conversation was about the result of choices on careers and income. A person who takes time off is going to progress slower and earn less than someone who doesnt in an equivalent position. Its a choice whether to, and when to, take time off.

 

[CM86]

So i asked if you disagree and you responded with a 'redirection' so you didnt actually disagree with me. Ok. This is why i dont bother with you these days.

The rest of your post is gibberish. Everything other than the biological reality of being the incubator* is a choice, from whether to have kids, to the timing to how long to take off work, when to go back and whether man or woman becomes primary provider.

* even this can be a choice these days. Adoption and surrogacy are available options.

Before you derailed it, the conversation was about the result of choices on careers and income. A person who takes time off is going to progress slower and earn less than someone who doesnt in an equivalent position. Its a choice whether to, and when to, take time off.

To clarify... You said that "incubation" was a choice...
And that supported your view that women are lazy... and don't work enough.

You have still, even when trying to cover your treads, said that women choose to "incubate" and "feed" babies... as a choice... So it's only fair that they earn less than "someone"(father), who doesn't "incubate" and breastfeed...


But... the choices of adoption and surrogacy... are available... so what's the problem? (Says kfc...)
First... check the stats on that situation...
And when you're old enough to understand... you may re-enter the conversation.

Or are you really just a troll?
I mean, christ.... You're literally saying that a female is choosing to be the "incubator"... like it's an option in a heterosexual relationship....

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

To clarify... You said that "incubation" was a choice...
And that supported your view that women are lazy... and don't work enough.

You have still, even when trying to cover your treads, said that women choose to "incubate" and "feed" babies... as a choice... So it's only fair that they earn less than "someone"(father), who doesn't "incubate" and breastfeed...


But... the choices of adoption and surrogacy... are available... so what's the problem? (Says kfc...)
First... check the stats on that situation...
And when you're old enough to understand... you may re-enter the conversation.

Or are you really just a troll?
I mean, christ.... You're literally saying that a female is choosing to be the "incubator"... like it's an option in a heterosexual relationship....

Did he actually say women are lazy? Or is that just your victim complex spilling out again?

 

[kfc1]

To clarify... You said that "incubation" was a choice...
And that supported your view that women are lazy... and don't work enough.

You have still, even when trying to cover your treads, said that women choose to "incubate" and "feed" babies... as a choice... So it's only fair that they earn less than "someone"(father), who doesn't "incubate" and breastfeed...


But... the choices of adoption and surrogacy... are available... so what's the problem? (Says kfc...)
First... check the stats on that situation...
And when you're old enough to understand... you may re-enter the conversation.

Or are you really just a troll?

You clearly can't read. Go back and quote where i said incubation was a choice, that women are lazy and dont work enough. And the rest of it.

Not going to bother engaging with you if you cant hold a conversation.

 

[CM86]

3 posts ago. You're putting words in his mouth.

So, you've nothing to back up that I've stated that he has made a statement... You're just saying that I've stated that he stated something... when you can't show where I have...

No words were put into mouths...
Well, on my part anyway. lel.

 

[fleabitten]

What is it with you and that freaking air conditioning article? Is that all you have to hang your hat on? I don't bang on about the significantly greater sexism in the media, like say the Daily Telegraph making a horse the Australian sportswoman of the year. That trumps your little air-conditioning article a thousand fold. Get a grip.

I've used that several times as a recent ridiculous example (which you guys didn't really have anything to say about except "the BBC is trolling") and already said i would stop doing so. There are numerous similar examples in this thread and new ones popping up weekly. Of all the stuff I've typed in the last few days, this is what you choose to comment about? My supposed overuse of a recent example?

You guys are really the pits. Every post requires 25 more posts of correcting other people's false projections, defending some insignificant sentence rather than any of the main arguments made and responding to personal attacks. And I don't think any of you realise you're doing it (except C3PO or whatever who I'm pretty sure is deliberately trolling).

 

[fleabitten]

I thought you were implying that he had a hatred for women because he was sepparated from his partner, i felt that was out of line, and to an extent analagous to victim shaming.

If you didn't mean that then go on.

No, that's what they meant.

 

[fleabitten]

Yep-completely get that it is not easy and the arrangement is mostly females stay at home for understandable reasons. But it does mean that many women are behind the eight ball when they do return to work in terms of experience, salary, superannuation-all of which can contribute to problems (if a woman is keen to pursue a high-powered career she is disadvantaged and it hasn't been necessarily her 'choice' to stay home (as outlined above). If a couple divorce, the female may be disadvantaged by job limitations. So the workforce is pre-diposed, because of not unreasonable situations, to the spouse who goes to work.

If a woman is keen to pursue a high-powered career, she doesn't have to have kids. How is it not necessarily her choice to stay at home? We're talking about educated, ambitious women here. How did they lose control of their own reproductive system?

 

[evo]

I feel bad for the crackers who lost their access to slaves

You see let me explain it to you. Women have utereses. They give birth. Based on that biological fact there is a false assumption that women should be the primary care givers once they finish breast feeding (which is a total myth). As a result of this myth few men do the hard yards and put their career in a holding pattern while they pick the kiddies up from school etc. This creates structural problems in the workforce that inhibit the career aspirations of woman that would NOT otherwise exist if men and woman shared the post breast feeding responsibilities of child rearing equally. The whole thing is based on a demonstrably false and sexist assumption - see its not that hard.

You and the rest of the white males can write a book "Cry Freedom" about the horrible crimes against your gender created by an advertisement that quotes verifiable facts

I did these so-called "hard yards" as a stay at home dad. I hate to break the news to you brother, it's a doddle, you've been had.

 

[Theseventhhamster]

I did these so-called "hard yards" as a stay at home dad. I hate to break the news to you brother, it's a doddle, you've been had.

Doing so right now with 4 and 2 year old kids. Would be the easiest and most fun gig ever if I wasn't doing full time uni as well.

 

[evo]

Doing so right now with 4 and 2 year old kids. Would be the easiest and most fun gig ever if I wasn't doing full time uni as well.

It is mate. Once these these so-called 'slaves' have got their kids off to day care or school their time is pretty much their own to have brunch with the girls or do a spot of shopping.

I went back to uni for something to do.

 

[Theseventhhamster]

It is mate. Once these these so-called 'slaves' have got their kids off to day care or school their time is pretty much their own to have brunch with the girls or do a spot of shopping.

I went back to uni for something to do.

Having said that the wife is finding full time work easier. The little one was running the house.

 

[fleabitten]

Really? How many men, in your fathers era took time off work to look after their children. In mine, I dont know any.

I don't think you understand my situation. It wasn't a choice to take time off work to raise my kids. I quit my job and became a single parent because their mother didn't want to. Men have been doing that forever. I don't have feminism to thank for it, which was the point you (or one of you) was trying to make.