List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade Talk 2015

[Apex36]

That's a big call with the best players on their list, bar Deledio, all in the 23-27 age bracket in Cotchin, Martin, Rance, Reiwaldt and Edwards. I just have my doubts on the next rung of their list in much the same way I have my doubts over the top rung of our list.

I don't have the answer for 6-8 years ahead and that may well be what AT is weighing up, but I'm comfortable with us being in the frame!

I have the same thoughts about their depth. Their top end is great, but they just seem like 1 or 2 key injuries away from falling apart. If Deledio misses games, it seems like they lose more often than not.

They have an extremely high reliance on Lids and Cotchin through the guts. It was fantastic to see our midfield function so well without Pendles and Swan carrying them this week. Gives me confidence that we will still function very well when Swanny hangs up the boots.

 

[frizzle]

I think Ellis & Miles are both very good mids as well. Not top notch just yet but are still improving & already quality players.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

I have the same thoughts about their depth. Their top end is great, but they just seem like 1 or 2 key injuries away from falling apart. If Deledio misses games, it seems like they lose more often than not.

They have an extremely high reliance on Lids and Cotchin through the guts. It was fantastic to see our midfield function so well without Pendles and Swan carrying them this week. Gives me confidence that we will still function very well when Swanny hangs up the boots.

That well put.
We should have Swan say two or three years but we need the new Swan so to speak.
The younguns look healthy, adding say treloar aish should further boost our stocks.
Imagine Dangerfield in our side - wow

 

[TradeDraft]

Treloar will end up at Richmond.collingwood never get a big name we only get players like young Adams karnezis greenwood white lynch.no disrespect to Adams and greenwood but there not even close to treloar.

What about Taylor Adams,Luke Ball and Darran Jolly?

 

[Hardas]

Love the enthusiasm

LMAO, gtrain!

 

[gtrain23]

LMAO, gtrain!

Well we are all bummed we made no finals then this muppet comes and tries to rip our hearts out with the only thing we are looking forward to at trade week.

 

[Matt_352]

Treloar will end up at Richmond.collingwood never get a big name we only get players like young Adams karnezis greenwood white lynch.no disrespect to Adams and greenwood but there not even close to treloar.

How about NO

 

[wednesdaywarrior]

This. Richmonds peak will be shortlived. Ours is 1 or 2 seasons further away but will be longer lasting. Treloar would fit in nicely with our youngsters, can't say the same for Richmond.

I think we've fallen prey to a level of exaggeration about how much better than us Richmond actually are. Today I explained to my 8 year old son the concept of 'form'. He had asserted that we were no chance to beat Essendon because they only lost to Richmond by 27 and we lost to them by 91. According to his logic that makes Essendon a ten goal better side than us.

So I used some Socratic reasoning and said - how much did we beat St. Kilda by? (84 points) How much did St. Kilda beat Essendon by? (120 points). Right, so does that mean we will beat Essendon by 200 points then? No. Why not? That's right, because a lot of things in footy don't make sense because of this thing called 'form'.

Richmond have had a great year and deserve kudos for their consistency but I think the first game we played against them which separated us by less than a goal was a truer indication of the worth of each team with both sides displaying close to their best form on that day. Last week Richmond were rebounding after a loss against Adelaide and had everything to play for, the pies were flat. We have been less consistent than them but we also have a greater number of debutants and players with less than 50 games. Their back line is tighter than ours because their AA CHB has played pretty much every game while ours has only just crawled back onto the park after two years of endemic soft tissue injury.

But Richmond are not a 91 point better side than the Pies. I would argue that our depth is better and we have more young players with significant upside than them. This is borne out by both our easy victory over them in the VFL and the number of players each side had in the AA 22 and under team. Among Collingwoods 5 players in that side, were not included Moore, De Goey, Broomhead, Scharenberg or Freeman.

Our prospects for sustained success are better than Richmond's. They may very well go on to have a great finals series. Or they could turn out to be the proverbial puffer fish that looks great for a season then suddenly just as quickly disappears. Their side is unhealthily reliant on Maric, Deledio and Edwards in a way that Collingwood is not even reliant on Cloke. God, if we were reliant on Cloke we'd be totally stuffed as he only kicks about 30 goals a season. We did not manage to beat any of the top sides this year because our side wasn't seasoned or confident enough but we 'all but beat' Hawthorn, Sydney, Fremantle and Port in virtually every aspect of the game except the scoreboard. This has been a very good year of development for the Pies, spoiled unfortunately by the anomalies against Richmond and Melbourne.

Let's get this in perspective my friends, let's not be intimidated by KB and the puffer fish of Punt Road and let's pray that AT and his management are smart enough to look at the bigger picture on offer here!

 

[PicaBoo]

That's a big call with the best players on their list, bar Deledio, all in the 23-27 age bracket in Cotchin, Martin, Rance, Reiwaldt and Edwards. I just have my doubts on the next rung of their list in much the same way I have my doubts over the top rung of our list.
I don't have the answer for 6-8 years ahead and that may well be what AT is weighing up, but I'm comfortable with us being in the frame!

There is that thread on it on the main board which is quite good ( bar the Bay 13 like trolling between clubs )

How soon is now?
Richmond's regulars:
Newman (33)
Maric (29)
Chaplin (29)
Deledio (28)
Grigg (27)
Houli (27)
Riewoldt (26)
Edwards (26)
Morris (26)
Cotchin (25)
Rance (25)
Vickery (25)
Martin (24)
Grimes (24)
Hunt (24)
Miles (23)
Griffiths (23)
Batchelor (23)
Lambert (23)
Conca (23)
B.Ellis (22)
McIntosh (21)
Vlastuin (21)
Lennon (20)

That isn't the list of a team that needs to "strike now".

Newman is the only 30 year old that gets regular games and he's arguably not even best 22. In fact replacing him with Corey Ellis (when fit) or even spuds like Nathan Gordon doesn't have much impact on the team.

Richmond are one of the last clubs that need to "strike now". They have plenty of time left. They've really only got 2-3 players to replace in the next 4 years, and nobody in the very immediate future.

IMHO the Tigers are a bit overoptimistic , as one would expect. The Deledio would hurt them, as much our Pendles would hurt us too. I am biased I fully admit. Probably between 23-26 is their core, take out Houli. I see our list more as a young group coming of age roughly at the same time whereas the Tigers have a number of promising young individuals.
Which brings me to my next point. Richmond might not have to retire so many players but how much more development is left in their group? I rate our potential ceiling higher then that of Richmond, give it time. In a few years, the promising young teams like GWS, Dogs and us will have overtaken Richmond.

 

[ace andy]

I think its silly of players to choose a club based on who is the current flavour of the month with regards to who has the best list. Lets face it, everyone gets who is going to be the best team in 3-5 wrong all the time. They should just choose a well run club where they will be happy in that environment including pay etc.

 

[bradrowe#32]

Richmond won't win a flag with their current list.

 

[PicaBoo]

I think we've fallen prey to a level of exaggeration about how much better than us Richmond actually are. Today I explained to my 8 year old son the concept of 'form'. He had asserted that we were no chance to beat Essendon because they only lost to Richmond by 27 and we lost to them by 91. According to his logic that makes Essendon a ten goal better side than us.

So I used some Socratic reasoning and said - how much did we beat St. Kilda by? (84 points) How much did St. Kilda beat Essendon by? (120 points). Right, so does that mean we will beat Essendon by 200 points then? No. Why not? That's right, because a lot of things in footy don't make sense because of this thing called 'form'.

Richmond have had a great year and deserve kudos for their consistency but I think the first game we played against them which separated us by less than a goal was a truer indication of the worth of each team with both sides displaying close to their best form on that day. Last week Richmond were rebounding after a loss against Adelaide and had everything to play for, the pies were flat. We have been less consistent than them but we also have a greater number of debutants and players with less than 50 games. Their back line is tighter than ours because their AA CHB has played pretty much every game while ours has only just crawled back onto the park after two years of endemic soft tissue injury.

But Richmond are not a 91 point better side than the Pies. I would argue that our depth is better and we have more young players with significant upside than them. This is borne out by both our easy victory over them in the VFL and the number of players each side had in the AA 22 and under team. Among Collingwoods 5 players in that side, were not included Moore, De Goey, Broomhead, Scharenberg or Freeman.

Our prospects for sustained success are better than Richmond's. They may very well go on to have a great finals series. Or they could turn out to be the proverbial puffer fish that looks great for a season then suddenly just as quickly disappears. Their side is unhealthily reliant on Maric, Deledio and Edwards in a way that Collingwood is not even reliant on Cloke. God, if we were reliant on Cloke we'd be totally stuffed as he only kicks about 30 goals a season. We did not manage to beat any of the top sides this year because our side wasn't seasoned or confident enough but we 'all but beat' Hawthorn, Sydney, Fremantle and Port in virtually every aspect of the game except the scoreboard. This has been a very good year of development for the Pies, spoiled unfortunately by the anomalies against Richmond and Melbourne.

Let's get this in perspective my friends, let's not be intimidated by KB and the puffer fish of Punt Road and let's pray that AT and his management are smart enough to look at the bigger picture on offer here!

I am not underselling us or overexaggerating them. We can come close to Richmond and other big teams if we are at our best. However, it will take another season before we can be confident to beat them in a normal fashion. Hence I said, their peak will be this and next year max, they might not decline, but other clubs will become better.

 

[Krueger]

I think you're overrating Ottens influence...he was a 'finishing touch'at best, not the enginer that made it all work. Also Idon't belive they paid overs for him, he wanted out and Richmond were happy to trade him out.

We also didn't pay overs for Jolly. We might have paid well, but not overs.

If Ottens was was a Magpie I guarantee you we would have won in 07. He slaughtered Guy Richards and Chris Bryan in the 07 prelim. I never rated him at Richmond but once he stacked on the kg's he became a man mountain.

 

[left at home]

with out ottens geelong win only one prership, with out jolly we loose the 1st gf.
big ruck men like them are so important when come finals not crappy ones we had
[except josh] who should have been a 3rd forward ruck

 

[Pendles!]

with out ottens geelong win only one prership, with out jolly we loose the 1st gf.
big ruck men like them are so important when come finals not crappy ones we had
[except josh] who should have been a 3rd forward ruck

It's unfortunate that Josh Fraser is fairly close to what we need now.. Would slot in perfectly.

 

[gtrain23]

It's unfortunate that Josh Fraser is fairly close to what we need now.. Would slot in perfectly.

No one needs a josh fraser ever

 

[BEEG]

Some Carlton supporter saying on the Drafts and trading board that where into Henderson

 

[spartan-magpie]

Some Carlton supporter saying on the Drafts and trading board that where into Henderson

He doesn't fill any need. Isn't a good backman and isn't a good forward. He is mediocre and severely overrated. Would rather James Stewart.

 

[TradeDraft]

Some Carlton supporter saying on the Drafts and trading board that where into Henderson

Was posted on here a few weeks back that we where into Lachie

 

[TradeDraft]

He doesn't fill any need. Isn't a good backman and isn't a good forward. He is mediocre and severely overrated. Would rather James Stewart.

Doubt Stewart would play for us now. From after what Happened near the Draft in 2013 when he was a Draft Prospect

 

[spartan-magpie]

Doubt Stewart would play for us now. From after what Happened near the Draft in 2013 when he was a Draft Prospect

I think he could come to us if we wanted him... He's not gonna get too many games at GWS moving forward and if they offer him up as trade bait he'd want to come to Victoria.

Anyway, I'm not to worried about Stewart, but I'm dead set against bringing Henderson to the pies. Would much rather white... I can't stand Henderson as a footballer.

 

[Hagla]

Doubt Stewart would play for us now. From after what Happened near the Draft in 2013 when he was a Draft Prospect

We told him we'd rookie him if he didn't get picked in the draft didn't we? Don't think there'd be any bad blood over that.

 

[BEEG]

He doesn't fill any need. Isn't a good backman and isn't a good forward. He is mediocre and severely overrated. Would rather James Stewart.

Stewart wants nothing to do with Collingwood can't blame the kid imagine thinking the team you support was going to draft you and then getting told last minute it's a no go

Footy is a business but I'm sure the kid has to much pride to end up at Collingwood

 

[spartan-magpie]

Stewart wants nothing to do with Collingwood can't blame the kid imagine thinking the team you support was going to draft you and then getting told last minute it's a no go

Footy is a business but I'm sure the kid has to much pride to end up at Collingwood

You're probably right. I just used Stewart as an example due to this.

DO NOT WANT HENDERSON!!!! EVER!!!!!

 

[BringouttheGimp]

Richmond are strange.. they fall away quite badly at the bottom end of their best 22.. It really all boils down to their better players having a bigger influence this yr than any other year.. I still think they're 10 years away. Idiots