List Mgmt. 2015 Trade/Draft/FA - SuperMegaUltraThread

[Moose1414]

Of course it is. I'd be extremely surprised if Gold Coast got anything more than that for Smith, for example.



It's way overs for a marginal ruckman. Look at Hampson, McIntosh, Trent West, Stefan Martin etc in recent years.

You're massively undervaluing the pick and overvaluing the need for a third-string ruckman. Look at the ruck pairs who've won premierships recently:
McEvoy/Hale
Bailey/Hale
Mumford/Pyke
Ottens/West
Jolly/Brown
Ottens/Blake
Campbell/Renouf

Would going into a GF with McInnes, McGovern, Derrickx or Hannath as the second ruck really be any worse than Trent West, Mark Blake or Brent Renouf? We've got far more pressing needs than overpaying for a ruck that would be our third string.

Sorry, didn't mean to say I think 17 can't get an average ruck. I meant a quality ruck. I agree plenty of sides play and also have success with crap ruck combinations, they go with what they've got and build the side around that. Our side is built to a large extent around ruck dominance. When we don't win the tap we can struggle. Its a weakness we should work on but I think if the sides built around Nic/Scott dominating in the square and one of them goes down then having a crap 3rd option to come in means our game plan falls apart to an extent. I'd like to be the one team in the league with 3 genuine options, which I think Will could possibly offer for 2 years or so while we're in that precious window. Because if the last 3 seasons are anything to go buy all 3 are going to be playing plenty of games. I don't subscribe to the theory Sinclairs replacement will languish in the WAFL all season while the other 2 sail through unscathed.

 

[Jiggyman]

I'm not that phased if we lose Sinclair for Jetta.

I dont mind Sinclair but dont think he's anything special. We can get a WAFL/VFL replacement that wont be much worse at little cost. I've got issues with how Sinclair handles pressure (typified by his set shots at goal) and his GF supported that.

He's only played 28 games. I want us to keep him, he's a top athlete and another pre-season under Simpson might generate more consistency. Has a higher ceiling to go to if he works on his set-shots and tap-work. It's no sure thing that Lycett just overtakes him, Sink still has a bit of development left in him.

The spot's there for him if he keeps improving, no need for him to move to Sydney (unless they can somehow offer him some big $).

 

[Moose1414]

I can see your thought process and how you arrived at the proposition of Minson as a valid option. Imo there are better and longer term option...There's no way in a million years Bulldogs would even consider asking for a first rounder for Minson. He's very much on the outer, and they'd honestly accept anything, like a fifth rounder for example.

Thanks, I'm getting flamed here. I don't think we need any long term options when we've got Nat/Lycett. Thats our future. If the Bulldogs will take anything all the better. Honestly I think I made a mistake taking peek into the Bulldogs trade forum and they all seem to think they'll be getting pick 11 off GWS for him. I didn't really think it through. To me if a 3rd ruck is essential to winning the big show next year then on the basis of all being relative you give what you've got. Don't have an opinion of what he's worth to us other than possibly a premiership. I'm sure if we go back and look through the Hawks boards the fans would of been rioting in 2012 when they picked up fat 30 yr old has been Brian Lake for first round pick 21.

 

[BS_82]

Callum is a 26 yr old ruck with 29 games to his name. Pretty lucky to get a premiership player with elite skills for him

Not when ruckmen are highly sought after, and contracted.

 

[Keys]

I'm sure if we go back and look through the Hawks boards the fans would of been rioting in 2012 when they picked up fat 30 yr old has been Brian Lake for first round pick 21.

Lake for 21 wasnt the trade

It was lake and 27 for 43 and 21

 

[archiemoses]

Sinclair is peaking value. The dude is 26 and has played 29 games and he could easily drop his form as hes done previously. If we get offered a decent pick we should jump all over it. I'm certain we could snare an experienced 3rd insurance ruck in free agency or draft.

 

[Keys]

Sinclair is peaking value. The dude is 26 and has played 29 games and he could easily drop his form as hes done previously. If we get offered a decent pick we should jump all over it. I'm certain we could snare an experienced 3rd insurance ruck in free agency or draft.

What if he continues to improve ?

Made big strides this year

 

[sey666]

Fair point. Hopefully you guys get something your after and we get something to makes us happy. Dont want to see anyone being ripped off

Would you be happy with 17 + Sinclair for Tom Mitchell + Jetta?

 

[Moose1414]

Lake for 21 wasnt the trade

It was lake and 27 for 43 and 21

My bad, just what I read in an obviously poorly researched article. Apparently Bulldogs would be embarrassed to ask for anything more than round 5 for Minson so its a non issue, get a free swing at it if we want.

 

[archiemoses]

What if he continues to improve ?

Made big strides this year

Were they really though? How does he compare to other R2? I just think it's taken this long to deliver to a serviceable level. His upside is limited imo and we can probably end up with a slightly worse ruck and move up the draft order a bit. Which can then be used to satisfy a greater need.

I'm also banking on Lycett overcoming his OP and taking that R2 spot. He is the better player when fully fit. Then if sinkers drops to 3rd choice we'd be kicking ourselves.

 

[Abed]

Would you be happy with 17 + Sinclair for Tom Mitchell + Jetta?

I would be.

 

[archiemoses]

The real crime is us not going after Bennell. If he goes for a second rounder wowee I'd be ropeable (sp? )

 

[beatlesmith]

Great stats for somebody who can play a key forward role - scored 13 goals in 20 games this year. He's a very good 'almost' player. But, at the end of the day, an 'almost' player is still an 'almost player'. I think he's rated fairly rather than underrated. Provided we can trade in cheap back-up for Naitanui and Lycett then he's expendable.

I really don't get why they want him to be frank. He's like a poor man's Tippett.
Surely they'd want a guy who can play #1 ruck and have Tippett chop him out.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

The real crime is us not going after Bennell. If he goes for a second rounder wowee I'd be ropeable (sp? )

The real crimes are those that Harley will commit himself.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

I really don't get why they want him to be frank. He's like a poor man's Tippett.
Surely they'd want a guy who can play #1 ruck and have Tippett chop him out.

I agree, don't think he suits their needs much so doubt it will eventuate. I mean, this rumour hasn't really been substantiated yet anyway.

 

[archiemoses]

I think his circumstances have been overplayed. Yes he is lazy and comittment is an issue. Sort it out though and you have a AA player

 

[Superstar swan]

Would you be happy with 17 + Sinclair for Tom Mitchell + Jetta?

Sure we cant persuade you take heeney as a sweetener

 

[beatlesmith]

I reckon we'll be asking them to throw in their first rounder as well as Jetta for Sinclair.

Maybe we'll put in our second and third or something to help them with points. Still not sure how that works.

At the very least we should look at swapping our first or second rounder this year for their first rounder next year.
They get a pick to use on academy bidding this year, we get a pick in a stronger(?) draft next year.

 

[fullbull]

Pick 17 for Minson is the early front runner for silliest suggestion of the silly season

I'd say it's probably the equal clubhouse leader along with some of the suggestions to trade Darling

 

[Yamumluvsbigcox]

What if he continues to improve ?

Made big strides this year

Around the ground he did but he always struggled in the ruck and I don't think that will change .
My opinion is as soon as lycett is over his injuries he will overtake Sinclair .
Look at how much OP effected natanui . He was a shadow of the player he was and is now .
Cash in now !
Sinclair is in high demand and contracted so we have the leverage .
But ............ Sinclair for jetta ? No way
GWS would love Sinclair . Perfect second ruck behind mummy and could take no1 spot if required . They will look to bring in more mature talent and will have picks to play with .

 

[Moose1414]

He's like a poor man's Tippett.

Exactly. Paid a fortune for Tippett and Buddy only to find that history repeats, can't double down on power forwards and expect a double return. Tippet will move to the ruck and it'll be Sinkers playing forward and chopping him out.

 

[Jiggyman]

Were they really though? How does he compare to other R2? I just think it's taken this long to deliver to a serviceable level. His upside is limited imo and we can probably end up with a slightly worse ruck and move up the draft order a bit. Which can then be used to satisfy a greater need.

I'm also banking on Lycett overcoming his OP and taking that R2 spot. He is the better player when fully fit. Then if sinkers drops to 3rd choice we'd be kicking ourselves.

Surely you noticed Sinker's improvement along with a lot of other 'almost' players throughout the year under Simpson. Who's to say he can't continue learning the rucking role in his 3rd professional season? IIRC he came to the club as a forward. Nail a few more shots and win a couple more taps to advantage; we'll have a serious player.

 

[dajesmac]

I'd say it's probably the equal clubhouse leader along with some of the suggestions to trade Darling

I don't reckon the Darling calls are that bad.

17 for Minson is a long way off reality though

 

[archiemoses]

Surely you noticed Sinker's improvement along with a lot of other 'almost' players throughout the year under Simpson. Who's to say he can't continue learning the rucking role in his 3rd professional season? IIRC he came to the club as a forward. Nail a few more shots and win a couple more taps to advantage; we'll have a serious player.

I'd argue that improvement in shep, wellers, schoey was far greater. I agree he's improved, but Lycett will be a better player when fit which makes Sinclair disposable

 

[sey666]

Sure we cant persuade you take heeney as a sweetener

Does this mean you guys are getting ripped off in that trade? I knew somebody was getting ripped, just was n't sure who. In that case, how about it if we throw in our 3rd round pick as well?