62 people have more wealth than half the worlds population

[rank and file]

Debt to who?

Not sure,maybe the banks?

 

[CatFan79]

well you know, the well-worn 'rothschilds are trillionaires and secretly control the world' nonsense spouted by every uneducated peasant with an internet connection. apologies if that's not where you were heading with that.

They're not?

 

[Long Live HFC]

They're not?

popular myth. even if we added all their respective net worths together, they struggle to get all the way there. individually, none of them come close.

 

[JoseMourinho]

Debt to who?

To some malicious organisation which is headed up by the Rothschild and Rockefellers working in tandem to create the Legion of Doom and create a one world dictatorship government in this world!
[/sarc]

 

[A Cut Above]

This is why I laugh whenever some technology mogul tells us that nanotechnology could eliminate poverty forever, or quantum computing, or AI or whatever, when there is absolutely no sane or logical reason why anyone should be living in poverty now.

There are more than enough resources to go around but the greed & corruption of this species will mean that a tiny few will always end up screwing over the majority so they can feel better about being themselves.

 

[A Cut Above]

Billionaires in 2015.

1,191 completely self made
230 got it all through inheritance
405 got some through inheritance

So most of the richest people are, in fact, self-made.

Where did I say anyone was dumb?

How many of those 1,191 earned their wealth without resorting to illegal or underhanded methods? Hmm maybe that's why they're nicknamed them the 1%.

 

[TheHateful62]

"The two aims of the Party are to conquer the whole surface of the earth and to extinguish once and for all the possibility of independent thought.
The capitalists owned everything in the world, and everyone else was their slave. They owned all the land, all the houses, all the factories, and all the money. If anyone disobeyed them they could throw him into prison, or they could take his job away and starve him to death."
George Orwell in his book "1984"

 

[Randomizor]

How many of those 1,191 earned their wealth without resorting to illegal or underhanded methods? Hmm maybe that's why they're nicknamed them the 1%.

Probably a f***ing lot to be honest. What an ignorant, unfounded comment.

 

[Randomizor]

no i don't feel they are obligated. but if the 62 got together (with trusted advisers) and pooled their knowledge/work ethic/vision/intelligence they would certainly have a better chance than any other group. the politicians of the world or the united nations have not improved the situation much.
i would say though if you are part of a system that has made you a billionaire or a multi millionaire you have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo, the only thing that you could use as a reason for you to want to change the system is your empathy and compassion.

kudos to you, i have admiration for people who go out in the world and strive for what they want (as long as it is done without severe exploitation of other people) whether it be in business, sporting or any other endeavor. but i would assume without knowing your background, you would agree, you had a better chance of doing it than if you spent your early years in zimbabwe, togo or bangladesh.

Absolutely, no denying we all here have a head start. There are still people who have this head start and end up in poverty, ones that remain around the average level, and ones that make the absolute most of it. Some in those countries go above their situation and end up successful, absolutely no denying it is a lot, lot harder though.

 

[Randomizor]

It's untenable because you have finite resources with a disproportionate concentration in the hands of very few. You have a mass of humanity (only increasing every year) living at or below the poverty line with the disparity widening each year and gap between wealthy and poor widening, not just across the planet but within "rich" 1st world countries. There is a tipping point where the middle class will be diminished in these countries and the people will no longer accept that it is their lot to live in poverty while others hoard the gold.

It would have already happened in the third world and does on occasion but the western intelligence/military services prop up illegitimate and corrupt governments in those countries, subvert the opposition and, when all else fails, drop bombs.

You say it's had many many years and hasn't? I'd argue it has but in the case of revolution just not in the countries we live in. Social reform has definitely happened albeit maybe not on the scale of some other countries. The reason being the people here have swallowed the bullshit while being able to turn a blind eye and get on with their lives - but if you start seeing the middle class lose jobs/houses things will change very quickly.

That exact thing happened in the US, last I checked they are still a capitalist nation.

I was unaware there were countries that have abolished capitalism and are doing aces. Can you tell me which they are?

Hoard the gold? So? They made the money they can do what they want with it. A significant number give it to charity though.

 

[nut]

You gotta think that once they get a robotic army up and running that will be the end game. They probably wouldn't try troops on the ground in the US because there will be people in the military/police who will switch sides. Once they take that factor out there's nothing standing in the way.

They already have..... Drones.

 

[nut]

World Debt Clock


$59,455,961,246,061

http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/

Debt = Money supply... in the current system with out increasing debt the economy fails. Those with the power to create the debt have the post power... it used to be goverment banks.... now its private banks. Democracy died when we handed over the power to the banks.

 

[Taylor]

This is why I laugh whenever some technology mogul tells us that nanotechnology could eliminate poverty forever, or quantum computing, or AI or whatever, when there is absolutely no sane or logical reason why anyone should be living in poverty now.

There are more than enough resources to go around but the greed & corruption of this species will mean that a tiny few will always end up screwing over the majority so they can feel better about being themselves.

The reason is that power is stupidly expensive.

We could desalinate the entire ocean if we wanted to with unlimited power, we can pump sea water all around a nation to be turned into fresh water.

Distributed, clean and stable power generation is the next technological jump for the human species. Nothing like Star Trek, those guys have unlimited power but their power generator is a gigantic bomb, I'm talking about a fusion reactor the size of a van that feeds a city.

 

[medusala]

What policy changes and what Obama actions, specifically, caused 95% of all income gains to go to the top 1%?

QE mainly.

Re Obama and wall street the below is a good read. Obama simply way out of his depth.

Confidence Men: Wall Street, Washington, and the Education of a President

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/...Geithner-ignored-Obama-directive-on-Citigroup

Pulitzer Prize-winning author Ron Suskind has a new book "offering an insider's account of the White House's response to the financial crisis." In it, he writes that "U.S. Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner ignored an order from President Barack Obama calling for reconstruction of major banks."

 

[awaremind]

popular myth. even if we added all their respective net worths together, they struggle to get all the way there. individually, none of them come close.

They have hidden the true extent of their wealth since about 1820, who even knows how wealthy they are. I do know though that when Yukos boss khodorkovsy got jailed he tried to sign over that entity to Jacob Rothschild . Yukos was worth at least fifty billion. Hidden power.
us president, George bush senior was referring to a plan for the effective reality of one world government in his infamous new world order speech . liberal capitalist democracy sounds nice but another, more accurate way to describe what we really have is media-controlled faux democratic two party rotational system oligarchy. Hey I'm doing just fine for now, but it's a sinking ship we are on here and inequality of voice above all is one of the major causes. Apparently within 50 odd years all the fish in the sea will be drunk with co2 and surely they will be dead not long after, followed by us, in my calculations, not long after that, so let's not let wealth be the highest value survival sounds better to me

 

[M Malice]

more accurate way to describe what we really have is media-controlled faux democratic two party rotational system

really like this section of your post. i posted something similar on a completely unrelated thread a while ago.

to your 3 questions. yes just scrape into voting age requirements. occasionally, depends what issue i am voting on and who the candidates are, i sometimes don't conform to societies norms or fit into the boxes it provides, though i am a bit of a rebel. i find that most of the time the candidates are very similar even though they assure us they are not ie. we are fed the illusion of choice.

 

[Long Live HFC]

us president, George bush senior was referring to a plan for the effective reality of one world government in his infamous new world order speech.

lay off the koolaide.

 

[CatFan79]

lay off the koolaide.

The speech was given on Sept 11 1991, Senior's taking the piss surely..

 

[Long Live HFC]

Debt = Money supply... in the current system with out increasing debt the economy fails. Those with the power to create the debt have the post power... it used to be goverment banks.... now its private banks. Democracy died when we handed over the power to the banks.

What’s more democratic than transactions between consenting parties? and you’ve got the bolded completely backwards (shock horror). Private lending institutions were around before government banks.

The speech was given on Sept 11 1991, Senior's taking the piss surely..

Sorry, I can’t tell if you’re having a laugh or actually think that date has relevance.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

That exact thing happened in the US, last I checked they are still a capitalist nation.

You talk about it like we are at the end of history. Something being the way it is now doesn't mean it will remain forever. And I never said capitalism should or would be abolished and replaced. Maybe it should but I have a feeling we have never really had a true capitalism, more like a corporatism where government and capital scratch each others backs. If government was a step removed from capital and implemented a social democratic model for capitalism to work within, maybe it would work.

I was unaware there were countries that have abolished capitalism and are doing aces. Can you tell me which they are?

"Abolishing" capitalism is an extreme view - I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about liberal/social democracy where the government puts protections in place for the benefit of the wider community, not for the benefit of corporations and billionaires. Numerous democratic governments and movements have been subverted, overthrown or worse by western intelligence/military agencies in the pursuit of corporate protection.

Even taking your argument, we can't know whether any country that has tried a different system would work as they have never been allowed to unfettered. How would we know how a Cuba for example may have turned out without having to worry about coups, assassinations, invasions, economic sanctions etc etc

Hoard the gold? So? They made the money they can do what they want with it. A significant number give it to charity though.

They can do what they want - but in the long term it is untenable for so many resources to be concentrated in the hands of so few, which was my original argument. Even some of the wealthy are coming to realise it. Donating to charities is all well and good and I applaud those that do. But its like using a bandaid to repair a lacerated throat.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Not sure,maybe the banks?

To some malicious organisation which is headed up by the Rothschild and Rockefellers working in tandem to create the Legion of Doom and create a one world dictatorship government in this world!
[/sarc]

It's a serious question though - if there is so much debt in the world it can never be paid off, who is on the other side of the ledger? Where is this debt created from? Debt is not "real" in a tangible sense, it's just a theoretical construct.

 

[Long Live HFC]

It's a serious question though - if there is so much debt in the world it can never be paid off,

why can't it be paid off?

who is on the other side of the ledger?

shouldn't that answer be obvious? the citizenry owes money to the financial institutions they've borrowed from. governments owe money to whomever bought their bonds.

Where is this debt created from? Debt is not "real" in a tangible sense, it's just a theoretical construct.

I’m not sure I understand the question. I buy you a beer today and you promise to pay me back next week. I have just created debt.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

why can't it be paid off?

That was the tenet of the article that was initially quoted.

shouldn't that answer be obvious? the citizenry owes money to the financial institutions they've borrowed from. governments owe money to whomever bought their bonds.

It's a bit of a ponzi scheme though - I get the government bonds but the borrowing from financial institutions (many of whom are meant to be central government banks) and creating interest incurring debt out of thin air is a bit of a con.

I’m not sure I understand the question. I buy you a beer today and you promise to pay me back next week. I have just created debt.

Yes on a tangible level there is debt for goods and services - but if I give you a piece of paper and tell you it's worth $50 and that you need to pay me back in kind but you are only allowed to use pieces of paper that I've created there's not really anything to back that up. The debt has been created from nothing and now all of a sudden you are in debt to me and that debt is accruing.

 

[Long Live HFC]

It's a bit of a ponzi scheme though - I get the government bonds but the borrowing from financial institutions (many of whom are meant to be central government banks)

I am unsure what you’re saying here. Central banks do not lend money at interest to their government. And even if they did, that interest would be returned by the central bank to the relevant authority (eg dept of treasury). Please do not conflate depository institutions with central banks (which are part of the government).

creating interest incurring debt out of thin air is a bit of a con.

Yeah, you’ve got to get past the popular ‘out of thin air’ stuff. It’s only half-right. Yes, when banks create loans they do so by crediting your account with the value of the loan, via a book-keeping entry, “out of thin air”. But what they’re really doing is giving you, the borrower, access to the deposits of all its depositors via that book keeping entry. When you withdraw or spend that money, it comes out of the bank’s reserves, not “out of thin air”. If banks really did create money out of thin air, why do they go bankrupt? Why can’t they just create more money? Indeed, why lend at all? why not just create money til the cows come home?

In reality (as in, the entire lending process not just the first book-keeping entry), banks lend excess reserves, but they do so over, and over again. This process is called deposit expansion (creating credit which we treat as money) by lending the same deposits many, many times.

Yes on a tangible level there is debt for goods and services - but if I give you a piece of paper and tell you it's worth $50 and that you need to pay me back in kind but you are only allowed to use pieces of paper that I've created there's not really anything to back that up.

What do you mean by “not really anything to back that up”? the bank’s loan is “backed up” by the loan asset on its balance sheet. And it should be noted that you didn’t create the pieces of paper, the central bank did and you just happen to be collecting them in order to sell them to me, at interest.

The debt has been created from nothing and now all of a sudden you are in debt to me and that debt is accruing.

I am in debt to you because I borrowed something I valued from you though?
I am confused by what your issue with debts “created from nothing” is? I just provided an example of a debt created from nothing- you owe me a beer dammit!

 

[TheHateful62]

It's a serious question though - if there is so much debt in the world it can never be paid off, who is on the other side of the ledger? Where is this debt created from? Debt is not "real" in a tangible sense, it's just a theoretical construct.

“The study of money, above all other fields in economics, is one in which complexity is used to disguise truth or to evade truth, not to reveal it. The process by which banks create money is so simple the mind is repelled. With something so important, a deeper mystery seems only decent.”
-Jonathon Galbraith, Former Harvard Economics Professor

“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and money system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
- henry Ford

"The Federal Reserve is no more federal than the Federal Express".
- (ex)Congressmen, Dennis Kucinich,