Politics Young people won't embrace progressive politics when they see its failures

[evolved2]

Take a look at what's happening in Canada.

Conservatives maintain months-long lead over Liberals, as Canadians' economic anxiety rises: Nanos

"The data shows the Liberals in a distant third place for 18-29 year olds with 15.97 per cent, compared to the Conservatives and the NDP with 39.21 per cent and 30.92 per cent respectively."

 

[HairyO]

Take a look at what's happening in Canada.

Conservatives maintain months-long lead over Liberals, as Canadians' economic anxiety rises: Nanos

"The data shows the Liberals in a distant third place for 18-29 year olds with 15.97 per cent, compared to the Conservatives and the NDP with 39.21 per cent and 30.92 per cent respectively."

The sensible reaction of the pendulum returning to the centre, and sometimes straying a little far left or right.

 

[barreness]

Take a look at what's happening in Canada.

Conservatives maintain months-long lead over Liberals, as Canadians' economic anxiety rises: Nanos

"The data shows the Liberals in a distant third place for 18-29 year olds with 15.97 per cent, compared to the Conservatives and the NDP with 39.21 per cent and 30.92 per cent respectively."

NDP is further left than the liberals. Also Trudeau has been in power for eight years(stale) and pretty strict neoliberal policy has typically seen worsening conditions for those with limited or no assets, aka young people.

Not really a massive win for conservatives. 47% 'left', 39% 'right'.

First past the post and 66% voter turnout do throw out some different variables from the aus system

 

[spinynorman]

NDP is further left than the liberals. Also Trudeau has been in power for eight years(stale) and pretty strict neoliberal policy has typically seen worsening conditions for those with limited or no assets, aka young people.

Not really a massive win for conservatives. 47% 'left', 39% 'right'.

First past the post and 66% voter turnout do throw out some different variables from the aus system

Yep, pretty sure Macron polls third in France among twenty-somethings after Le Pen and Mélenchon. Similar to Trudeau, not sure this is a reaction against “progressivism” as much as it’s a status quo, and people gravitating towards voices that offer radical change. I’m sure if Bernie stood in a three way presidential race there’s a fair chance Biden would poll third amongst 20-somethings too.

If this was an actual Canadian election result, the Liberals would be left deciding whether to support the NDP or the Conservatives as a minority partner in government. I suspect then we’d see how “progressive” they truly are.

 

[peetoo]

Beep hoping buddy. Sounds like a long bow to me

Youngsters locked out to the wealth ladder says no

 

[Saint]

Pretty long bow, using Canada as an example. Also a poor example, since if you consider Trudeau progressive, then you're going to hate the NDP.

"The NDP supports a mixed economy, broader welfare, LGBT rights, international peace, environmental stewardship, and expanding Canada's universal healthcare system to include dental care, mental health care, eye and hearing care, infertility procedures, and prescription drugs."

In Australia, Millennials are certainly seeing the failure of conservative politics in Australia where they're less likely to ever own a home and will most likely have less wealth than their parents.

More young people are complaining about the ALP being too conservative economically.

The Greens get as many votes from Millennials as the conservatives in Australia.

Voting patterns by generation

This Flagpost looks at the change in first preference votes to the major parties in the House of Representatives by generation over the past 6 federal elections (2004 to 2019). It is based on data collected by the Australian Election Study (AES). The AES is a long-standing post-e

www.aph.gov.au

 

[owen87]

Pretty long bow, using Canada as an example. Also a poor example, since if you consider Trudeau progressive, then you're going to hate the NDP.

"The NDP supports a mixed economy, broader welfare, LGBT rights, international peace, environmental stewardship, and expanding Canada's universal healthcare system to include dental care, mental health care, eye and hearing care, infertility procedures, and prescription drugs."

In Australia, Millennials are certainly seeing the failure of conservative politics in Australia where they're less likely to ever own a home and will most likely have less wealth than their parents.

More young people are complaining about the ALP being too conservative economically.

The Greens get as many votes from Millennials as the conservatives in Australia.

Voting patterns by generation

This Flagpost looks at the change in first preference votes to the major parties in the House of Representatives by generation over the past 6 federal elections (2004 to 2019). It is based on data collected by the Australian Election Study (AES). The AES is a long-standing post-e

www.aph.gov.au

I don't think the ALP here is overly progressive, just less conservative than the LNP who are caught up trying to appeal to the Christian-Boomer cohort not realising that's (literally) a dying voter bloc.

 

[Saint]

I don't think the ALP here is overly progressive, just less conservative than the LNP who are caught up trying to appeal to the Christian-Boomer cohort not realising that's (literally) a dying voter bloc.

Yeah, I think the Greens have a similar platform to the NDP and I think Millennials here would go for that.

Keep in mind, the Canadian Greens still get 4-6% of the vote in those polls. So if you add the Liberals, Greens and NDP together (all more progressive than the Australian ALP), you'll get 51%.

So the progressives are still winning in Canada overall. There aren't other conservative parties for the Canadian Conservatives to form Govt with.

The Conservatives won the most votes at the last Canadian election too, and will again at the next one, by more, and still be in opposition.

Unless they form a coalition with Bloc Quebecois and allow them to secede from Canada.....

 

[peetoo]

Yeah, I think the Greens have a similar platform to the NDP and I think Millennials here would go for that.

Keep in mind, the Canadian Greens still get 4-6% of the vote in those polls. So if you add the Liberals, Greens and NDP together (all more progressive than the Australian ALP), you'll get 51%.

So the progressives are still winning in Canada overall. There aren't other conservative parties for the Canadian Conservatives to form Govt with.

The Conservatives won the most votes at the last Canadian election too, and will again at the next one, by more, and still be in opposition.

Unless they form a coalition with Bloc Quebecois and allow them to secede from Canada.....

It worked for the UK conservatives, lettin SNP take seats off labour in Scotland

 

[Mofra]

It worked for the UK conservatives, lettin SNP take seats off labour in Scotland

UK.
Speaking of policy failures...

 

[Saint]

It worked for the UK conservatives, lettin SNP take seats off labour in Scotland

Yes, but Bloc Quebecois isn't gaining votes at the expense of anyone in the last ~10 years.

All that has happened is that the Conservatives have gone up 4 points at the expense of the Liberals, but they're still miles behind the progressive bloc.

While the OP would love that it were the case that this were a global phenomenon, the UK is a prime example of the Conservatives being absolutely on the nose with Young people.

For example, only 7% of University-attending young Brits plan on voting for the tories. Keep in mind this includes the Oxbridge cohort of inheriting rich kids.

New polling shows over eight-in-10 students expect to vote at the next general election, that nearly half of students support Labour – and 7% the Conservatives – but that students are split on what policies Labour should adopt on tuition fees and loa

The Higher Education Policy Institute has conducted the first detailed political polling of current full-time undergraduates. Key findings: 85% of full-time UK undergraduate students expect to vote at the next general election 89% of students say they are registered to vote and 64% of those...

www.hepi.ac.uk

Rishi Sunak thinks the party are facing an existential threat:

Nearly two-thirds of millennials think Tories deserve to lose election, poll says

Rishi Sunak told that research from Onward thinktank suggests party is facing ‘existential’ threat

www.theguardian.com

It seems there's just a rump of die-hard boomer conservatives across the globe (OP included) thinks that if they just go a bit more conservative, the kids will come around. But it's like me telling the kids that the Hottest 100 of 1999 is soo much better than the hottest 100 of 2022. The polls are telling conservatives that they're going to lose these voters for ever. And conservatives either don't care or are too set-in-their-ways to believe it. Which sounds like exactly how conservatives think.

 

[Cap]

An interesting video on topic it seems

 

[mcnulty]

Take a look at what's happening in Canada.

Conservatives maintain months-long lead over Liberals, as Canadians' economic anxiety rises: Nanos

"The data shows the Liberals in a distant third place for 18-29 year olds with 15.97 per cent, compared to the Conservatives and the NDP with 39.21 per cent and 30.92 per cent respectively."

Cities like Portland and San Francisco are probably the prime examples of what progressives should be avoiding.

 

[Saint]

Cities like Portland and San Francisco are probably the prime examples of what progressives should be avoiding.

Cities like Detroit and Bakersfield are prime examples of what conservatives should be avoiding.

 

[adelaidecrows]

At the moment I believe we are in the middle of the extreme. Traditionally politics swings left of the middle to just right over the middle, maintaining a balance. Trump shoved the extremes to the the far right and now we are in the far left correction. By the end of this decade we should be back to the norm.

Extreme progressive politics fails because it sacrifices common-sense in blind support of minorities. It will balance out over time.

 

[Gethelred]

At the moment I believe we are in the middle of the extreme. Traditionally politics swings left of the middle to just right over the middle, maintaining a balance. Trump shoved the extremes to the the far right and now we are in the far left correction. By the end of this decade we should be back to the norm.

Extreme progressive politics fails because it sacrifices common-sense in blind support of minorities. It will balance out over time.

There is significant reason to think things are not operating as usual, given a combination of economic and environmental (both literally the environment and the state of world affairs post Covid) factors at play.

There's also the reality that the rate of change to the status quo for humans has - if anything - been accelerating over the course of time. Change used to come exceedingly slow for us AC, with inventions that were society shaping coming every millenia (tools and fire use into written word and metallurgy, into plows and animal husbandry) then every 500 years, now every hundred, to computers coming on the wings of colour television. Politically, things were restricted by the ability to communicate; now, we communicate with the speed of your ping. We've only really had the current epoch beginning at the conclusion of WW2 going for around 80ish year before Covid-19 knocked economic systems for six and wealth disparity generated by late stage capitalism and neoliberalism have driven things to much nearer breaking point than we've been in a long time.

Without trying to catastrophize too much, thinking that things will just return to the 'way things were' - whether the spin placed upon the past is good or bad - is a mite shortsighted IMO. I don't think things will stop changing, because they're being buoyed by the weight of all of society to keep doing so.

 

[Carringbush2010]

To be blunt:

The title itself lends to an ideological bent, apologies to the op evolved2 but I can only view this as some sort of fishing expedition.

Skimming the attached article it hardly seems this is a 'norm' for the rest of the 'western' or 'democratic society' as seemed per se.

I will however attempt to get to the point of what your op is trying to get to (I'm going to fairly assume your point).

My assumption of your thread is to point out, mind you very broadly, the impractical idealism of the progressive movement.

Is this your implication? Broadly I would agree, however to substantiate your point (if indeed it is) then you need to delve into more detail about what I assume you believe to be impractical on part of the 'progressive' movement.

Please detail examples.

 

[peetoo]

Conservatives eventually pretend they always approved of progressive ideas.

I bet they opposed replacing god save the queen with advance australia etc etc

 

[nut]

Take a look at what's happening in Canada.

Conservatives maintain months-long lead over Liberals, as Canadians' economic anxiety rises: Nanos

"The data shows the Liberals in a distant third place for 18-29 year olds with 15.97 per cent, compared to the Conservatives and the NDP with 39.21 per cent and 30.92 per cent respectively."

Have a look at what’s happening in Norway

The fund | Norges Bank Investment Management

The purpose of the fund is to safeguard and build financial wealth for current and future generations based on revenue from Norway's oil and gas resources.

www.nbim.no

 

[peetoo]

That’s Stockholm syndrome

 

[evolved2]

Have a look at what’s happening in Norway

The fund | Norges Bank Investment Management

The purpose of the fund is to safeguard and build financial wealth for current and future generations based on revenue from Norway's oil and gas resources.

www.nbim.no

I don't understand your point.

 

[nut]

I don't understand your point.

Norway is a progressive country and is an example of what progressive policies can achieve … so I’m not sure if young people see the success of Norway and other Nordic countries, that they will turn away from progressive policies.

Here are some ….

One of the strongest human rights advocates on the planet.

Owns the majority of its national assets and utilities.

Universal health care … virtually zero private health.

A high performing public education system with virtually zero private schools and is basically free for all. Including university…

Owns and maintains its roads.

Low unemployment with a strong welfare system

Has a parliament for its indigenous people in the north.

One of the highest living standards in the world.

Virtually zero poverty amongst citizens.

A justice and prison system that has one of the lowest Recidivism rates in the world.

A strong union membership of around half the working population.

Strong Award wage systems and protections of workers rights…

One of the easiest countries to do business in. Ranked 6th in 2020…

Can you name a country with conservative policies that out perform ?

 

[DangerousD]

I don't think the ALP here is overly progressive, just less conservative than the LNP who are caught up trying to appeal to the Christian-Boomer cohort not realising that's (literally) a dying voter bloc.

Im not a LNP fan but is this true in regards to a dying voter block? I’ve always read that people become more conservative as they get older, so as long as the LNP or any party fear monger at what 40 plus year olds are scared of, wont they maintain a voter base?

 

[owen87]

Im not a LNP fan but is this true in regards to a dying voter block? I’ve always read that people become more conservative as they get older, so as long as the LNP or any party fear monger at what 40 plus year olds are scared of, wont they maintain a voter base?

They might swing 'more' conservative than they currently are, but that would also require the LNP to identify that conservative for the current 35 - 50 year old voters is likely very different to the current 50+ cohort, and will be different again for the 18 - 35 demographic as they age.

Unlike religion who try to argue they exist outside of society, politicians and political party need to represent the will of their constituents.

It's highly likely IMO that something like 'climate change' will cease being a voting issue as both major parties will need to adopt some form of reasonable policy position towards investment in renewables and reductions in carbon emissions.

Same way that same-sex marriage has kind of gone by the wayside as a voting issue and is pretty much accepted (willingly or unwillingly) by both major parties now.

 

[spinynorman]

Im not a LNP fan but is this true in regards to a dying voter block? I’ve always read that people become more conservative as they get older, so as long as the LNP or any party fear monger at what 40 plus year olds are scared of, wont they maintain a voter base?

Generally, globally, you’re not seeing that change at anything like historical numbers (probably the fact that wealth is so locked in with older generations). The oldest millennials are now in their 40s and there’s more renters among them than at any point in decades.