Oppo Camp 2016 non-Geelong match and general football (Australian Rules) discussion

[Partridge]

Judd and there really shouldn't be any argument.
Hodge has been tremendous in nearly every grand final he has performed in. Big time player and has also been as consistent as they come but Judd was the most dynamic, explosive midfielder the game had ever seen when he debuted. I don't even think West Coast would have been a serious challenger in 05, 06 etc if it wasn't for that player. When he left, West Coast were a shadow of what he and Cousins had made them. He goes to Carlton and immediately helps lift them into a finals bound football team.

No he wasn't. If you'd never followed footy before he started and bought into the hype perhaps. There actually were great midfielders in football before Judd came along believe it or not. Judd's peak years were about 2004-2006. Ablett's subsequent 7-8 seasons blew Judd's best to Mars and back (and everyone else's).

Judd was better than Hodge early, but was in decline for a long time before finally succumbing last year. Hodge was in his shadow for a fair while, but has proven to be far, far more durable. It's a lot closer now than I thought it would be.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Judd was more brilliant at his peak but Hodge has been/is more durable and consistent and is still not finished. Moreover, whilst Judd lead by inspirational individual performances on field Hodge has evolved into a superb on field leader directing the traffic, but capable of individual brilliance as well. Considering his output has hardly dropped over the last 3 years and that he can play forward, midfield or back as required and can virtually coach the team on field Hodge for me.

Judd and there really shouldn't be any argument.
Hodge has been tremendous in nearly every grand final he has performed in. Big time player and has also been as consistent as they come but Judd was the most dynamic, explosive midfielder the game had ever seen when he debuted. I don't even think West Coast would have been a serious challenger in 05, 06 etc if it wasn't for that player. When he left, West Coast were a shadow of what he and Cousins had made them. He goes to Carlton and immediately helps lift them into a finals bound football team.
A lot of Geelong supporters seem to despise Judd, whether this has something to do with the Ablett v Judd debate that was so hotly argued at the time, who knows but players like that will only come around every couple of decades. Players like Hodge are a dime a dozen. Bartel & Selwood are in Hodge's class. Maybe not yet for Selwood but they will always be making up the numbers.

The fact Hawthorn are arguably the best run team in the country has significantly bolstered some of their players reputations when they should rightfully be on their final legs.
Any other club and Hodge would have looked like Bartel these past three or so years and vice versa, put Bartel in Hawthorn's current team and he would still look a million bucks.

Bigfooty agrees Bob. Judd all day long.

Seems only Hawfies disagree.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Oh and in other news Floggard is captain of Essendon

 

[Partridge]

name me another midfielder who stood 6ft'2 and could shift from side to side, kick on both feet and run like he could?
Only Ablett senior when he played through the midfield in the early days was similar. Even he stood an inch shorter than Judd though.

Ability to run perhaps, especially breaking away from packs. But Judd never had particularly brilliant disposal, and certainly wasn't anything special on his left foot. Off the top of my head, Greg Williams and Garry Hocking blew him to smithereens in that regard, as does Ablett.

 

[James1970]

Judd still went at over 70% disposal efficiency throughout his career. Gets knocked often because at Carlton, he was the main guy who copped all pressure just like Ablett when he went to the Suns and his disposal efficiency has since dropped over the years. Judd also had a lot less clangers each game.
Williams and Hocking were entirely different midfielders. Short in stature and very slow like Sam Mitchell. Completely different types of players to what Judd was.

I'd take Judd at his peak over Mitchell, but Williams over Judd and Mitchell every damn time. Next to Ablett Snr., probably the best reader of the game I've ever seen.

 

[Partridge]

I'd take Judd at his peak over Mitchell, but Williams over Judd and Mitchell every damn time. Next to Ablett Snr., probably the best reader of the game I've ever seen.

Yes, yes, and yes. The best compliment I can pay Gary junior is that he's made my "best midfielder I've seen" question much, much harder now.

 

[BIGANT]

Just don't get port training on aust day....what's one extra session going to change over the other 15 clubs not training.
Yeah they're hurting after last yr, what club outside the that isn't

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[Willo_]

Just don't get port training on aust day....what's one extra session going to change over the other 15 clubs not training.
Yeah they're hurting after last yr, what club outside the that isn't

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I'd say it's just for media spin to be honest. Every club they would have a day off or 2 a week, Port will still have a day this week but get to pump their own tyres a bit saying how dedicated they are

Pure fluff

 

[Art Vandelay_]

I'd say it's just for media spin to be honest. Every club they would have a day off or 2 a week, Port will still have a day this week but get to pump their own tyres a bit saying how dedicated they are

Pure fluff

I think it is mandated in the CBA during pre-season they can only be at the club for 4 days a week and get Sundays off, during season no Sunday off. So they will get a day off. So given they're not allowed to work any harder than that, it is purely PR.

 

[Cezz The Catter]

Judd in his prime was a league ahead of Hodge in all aspects acceot perhaps versatility.

I dont think its any question for a person of my age who the best player we've ever seen is though. Caught the tail end of Carey and didnt see Ablett Snr. Ablett Jnr hands down the best player I've ever seen.

However if it werent for him I'd have no idea. Far better to break it down into positional 'best you've seen' in my opinion, far better judgements can be made.

 

[David the Cat]

Judd in his prime was a league ahead of Hodge in all aspects acceot perhaps versatility.

I dont think its any question for a person of my age who the best player we've ever seen is though. Caught the tail end of Carey and didnt see Ablett Snr. Ablett Jnr hands down the best player I've ever seen.

However if it werent for him I'd have no idea. Far better to break it down into positional 'best you've seen' in my opinion, far better judgements can be made.

Wont help....Ablett Snr could play everywhere.

 

[catswhiskers]

Wont help....Ablett Snr could play everywhere.

(Not joining this debate but) yes DtC he could.

Even in his first few games with Hawks his highlights were great. Playing wing / half forward.

Watched his highlight package (a big one!) recently. Snr was just explosive. On the ground and in the air.

His attack on the ball was amazing.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

We are bloody fortunate Luke Ball kicked the winning goal for Collingwood in the dying minutes to see them through to the grand final

You HAVE to be kidding right?
We would have smashed the hawks by 7/8 goals in the GF if they lucked themselves into it.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

nope, I'm not kidding.
Hawkins played on an unfit defender for starters and Hawthorn have always matched up well on us no matter where both teams stand on the ladder.
The game played earlier that year was another close encounter where we eventually won by 3 goals.
The fact Clarkson would have had a couple of weeks to review what wrong in the first finals and make necessary adjustments, I'm not sure how any sane Geelong supporter could predict a 7/8 goal win.
Did you not sit through the 2008 grand final after we were predicted to win by 8 goals?

And yet, won the Qualifying final by 6 goals in a canter...
Geez you are turning into an intolerable poster.

 

[Cattery]

yes it was a canter, 31 point win equates to six goals in your eyes

You idiots never learn do you!
Learn absolutely nothing from the past. Think what transpired two weeks beforehand will only be replicated in a grand final.

No real need to be abusive Bobby, guess we could say the same about you if we felt inclined, that you think what happened in 2008 would be replicated in 2011.

Not sure why you're so hell bent on trying to convince everyone we would probably have lost the GF had the Hawks made it, Geelong were practically unstoppable right throughout that entire finals series, including a comfortable win against Hawthorn just four weeks earlier.

 

[Willo_]

nope, I'm not kidding.
Hawkins played on an unfit defender for starters and Hawthorn have always matched up well on us no matter where both teams stand on the ladder.
The game played earlier that year was another close encounter where we eventually won by 3 goals.
The fact Clarkson would have had a couple of weeks to review what wrong in the first finals and make necessary adjustments, I'm not sure how any sane Geelong supporter could predict a 7/8 goal win.
Did you not sit through the 2008 grand final after we were predicted to win by 8 goals?

I actually agree with the theory we would have smashed the Hawks that year in a granny. That year I knew we were better, remember a hawk mate talking them up before the first final and I couldn't understand why. We only won by 5 goals but if SJ hadn't ****ed around so much the last quarter (or had taken his chances) we would have belted them by 10 goals.

It's all speculation and just an opinion though of course as the Hawks choked in the prelim that they should have won and we got the beat the Pies... which was just as enjoyable

 

[ChookNorris]

Roughead to miss first half of the season. Requires complete pcl reco.

 

[Cataholic]

Roughead to miss first half of the season. Requires complete pcl reco.

Not good for Roughy.

Bad injury not a common occurrence at the Hawks either.

 

[fpm84]

Big blow for Hawthorn especially as their tall forward stocks don't seem too deep. Don't forget they also lost Hale who was good for a goal a game (or 2-3 a game against us!). Having a quick peek on the Hawks board they think Tim O'Brien (four career games) will get a good run at senior opportunities from round 1.

On the flip side this throws out our match ups for round 1 - assuming all of Taylor, Lonergan and Henderson play down back, Hawthorn don't have enough tall forwards for them to cover.

 

[PremierCatAttack]

Sad for Rough - though I like playing the Hawks more when he is not there as he can be so damaging. Sucks that he is injured though

 

[ChookNorris]

Interesting to see how Gunston will go with a decent defender actually going to him. #sheepdog

 

[Partridge]

(Not joining this debate but) yes DtC he could.

Even in his first few games with Hawks his highlights were great. Playing wing / half forward.

Watched his highlight package (a big one!) recently. Snr was just explosive. On the ground and in the air.

His attack on the ball was amazing.

Yep. It was.

And balance, strength, speed, ridiculously good reading of the ball in flight, and skills on both sides. Later in his career he learned to keep his feet better than anyone I've ever seen as well.

And did I mention balance?

 

[JUBJUB]

Roughead to miss first half of the season. Requires complete pcl reco.

Must've been one hell of a shagging session he had with the new bride last night.

I hope Tom Lonergan didn't get injured last night

 

[00VicWard001]

Big blow for Hawthorn especially as their tall forward stocks don't seem too deep. Don't forget they also lost Hale who was good for a goal a game (or 2-3 a game against us!). Having a quick peek on the Hawks board they think Tim O'Brien (four career games) will get a good run at senior opportunities from round 1.

On the flip side this throws out our match ups for round 1 - assuming all of Taylor, Lonergan and Henderson play down back, Hawthorn don't have enough tall forwards for them to cover.

Um, it also means that the Hawks have to work out how to cover our tall Swingmen back-line that will be continually attacking and cutting off their supply.

Works both ways and Roughead is a top 3 player for them and vital to their structure. Sure they could try and go small and be agile, but that requires winning clearances and repelling our forward attacks. Harry, Tom, Hendo, Enright etc are very experienced. Gunston would be their number one forward now and if he's engaged by a Henderson, and Taylor continually cuts off his marks it could get pretty ugly for the Hawks.

To combat this, they will need to rearrange structures and potentially move tall players out of position. And really, the last place they want to do it from is from their backline, now that Lake is gone.

 

[you pick one]

Terrible for Roughy and I wish him a full recovery,but I did give a big f--k yeah when I first heard the news.