Autopsy 2023 Rd 8 Mediocre Blues gone after Quarter time

[katmanblue]

Was in the best few KPD for 2-3 years.

Not sure how you define superstar but the point is he was bloody good.

1 year.

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[Jimmyonesix]

Playing two inexperienced defenders to play docherty in the middle which also puts kennedy as the sub is madness. Big crazy. Nutto. Loop de loop. Etc.

This and playing the hf as an extra mid kicking to an outnumbered fwd line everytime is crazy esp when the mids aren't scoring goals ..
save doc for the midfield injection if necessary .. like Lyon does with Sinclair as Adelaide used to do with Laird when they had a good side 18/19 -- unless we planning for the future which I don't believe we are..
other than Saad Bot Newman other 4 hardly seasoned defenders ..

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

We are too impatient. It's not Voss's fault we've been s**t for 20 odd years. Gotta give him 4-5 years.

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After 20 sh1t years, 8th year into a dramatic rebuild(including unprecedented high draft picks), fresh CEO and president...won't be waiting another 4 years to see if Voss is any good.
This year, we are on a downward trajectory(with an improved playing list that have lost their abilities to kick and run???, and less injuries), while other rebuilding clubs (Crows, Saints, Pies) are finals bound.
What is an acceptable result for this season in most supporters views?

 

[katmanblue]

It was an awesome mark, right in front of me... Then nailed it...

Even though Harry has been out of form with his goal kicking,
people seem to overlook the the repeat efforts he does, to push up the ground to make an option then have to get back...

He's been poor in front of goal but has improved every other if his game. Repeat efforts. Marks down the line.
Applied pressure all much better than in previous years. Have to respect that. The goal kicking will come back.

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[katmanblue]

After 20 sh1t years, 8th year into a dramatic rebuild(including unprecedented high draft picks), fresh CEO and president...won't be waiting another 4 years to see if Voss is any good.
This year, we are on a downward trajectory(with an improved playing list that have lost their abilities to kick and run???, and less injuries), while other rebuilding clubs (Crows, Saints, Pies) are finals bound.
What is an acceptable result for this season in most supporters views?

So, what? Sack him. Then get someone else who has to try to teach a new method. First is is a wash, then 2nd year blues and sack the next bloke too.

Scott, Hardwick and Clarkson were all very close to being sacked at one stage too. They weren't and went on to win flags.

If we keep sacking coaches we'll be in this perpetual cycle of waiting for it to click.

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[Blue1980]

The entire endeavour from MLG and SOS was too ambitious, really. Hard to hard rebuild without your development setup being decent; hard to draft without a list management department and one bloke having carte blanche over the whole shebang. Add to it all the coteries behind the scenes of ever so helpful ex players, powerbrokers, influences and families and it's a wonder we did it at all; didn't try and keep going with the list as it was in 2015, didn't try and install a great of the game and give them complete control, didn't try to fight the weight of progress and professionalism.

I think it's a hard thing to really assess how good or poor a job someone did without the fullness of time to assess it. It's what, less than 4 seasons since SOS left?

But it’s now 8 seasons since it all began

 

[The Blue Weirdo]

So, what? Sack him. Then get someone else who has to try to teach a new method. First is is a wash, then 2nd year blues and sack the next bloke too.

Scott, Hardwick and Clarkson were all very close to being sacked at one stage too. They weren't and went on to win flags.

If we keep sacking coaches we'll be in this perpetual cycle of waiting for it to click.

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But we are already in this perpetual cycle, there has to be some form of leadership accountibilty. Scott, Hardwick and Clarkson's histories are as relevant as Malthouse, Bolton and Teague's.(except our players list is now uncomparably better)
Teague was never given 4 years to test the water?
The club and myself expect to us to be finalists this year, what is a passmark in 2023?

 

[Gethelred]

But it’s now 8 seasons since it all began

And we were arguably at least 10 years behind, if not more than that.

I think a trend line is better analysis that a mere good/bad binary.

 

[BlueBayou]

This is extremely weird and troubling because, although I'm sorry you were attacked, I definitely didn't post that - the post has been removed so I can't see the time stamp, but I fell asleep on the couch after liking a post at about 12.40am and then liked a few posts this morning around 8am (kids slept in a little for once) using my phone but didn't otherwise use the site as I really don't like the mobile experience and have otherwise completely lost track of the actual discussion in this thread.

Honestly, I have pretty much no thoughts or even knowledge of Barassi or Carlton in the 50s and 60s and off the top of my head I can't think of anything I'd be less likely to reference in an argument (if I did I would lose due to said ignorance).

Anyway, checked my profile and nothing else seems to have happened but off to change my password I guess...

I'm of a mind to believe you, as we have had some polite exchanges in the past. I wondered where the 'girlfriend' insult came from, and was very surprised.
I suggest we need to refer this exchange to the mods and see if they can find out what happened. I too looked for the post to report it, but it had been deleted.
If you know how to get this to the Mods attention, please do so. If not I will make the effort.

 

[gunslingr]

I'm of a mind to believe you, as we have had some polite exchanges in the past. I wondered where the 'girlfriend' insult came from, and was very surprised.
I suggest we need to refer this exchange to the mods and see if they can find out what happened. I too looked for the post to report it, but it had been deleted.
If you know how to get this to the Mods attention, please do so. If not I will make the effort.

Maybe I can just report my previous reply to you (as in the one where I was all WTF??). Will give it a crack

Edit: Reported it with this somewhat convoluted comment: Please see reference in my post here to a post I definitely did not make but which apparently game from my account (I got a quote notification) and has caused some upset. It's since been deleted but it's pretty troubling. Have since updated my password just in case (although I couldn't see any gremlins in my profile)

 

[thylacine60]

So, what? Sack him. Then get someone else who has to try to teach a new method. First is is a wash, then 2nd year blues and sack the next bloke too.

Scott, Hardwick, Thompson and Clarkson were all very close to being sacked at one stage too. They weren't and went on to win flags.

If we keep sacking coaches we'll be in this perpetual cycle of waiting for it to click.

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[gunslingr]

If we keep sacking coaches we'll be in this perpetual cycle of waiting for it to click.

Hmm had flashbacks to Brick from Cat on a Hot Tin Roof:

Brick: "this click that I get in my head that makes me peaceful. I got to drink till I get it"

Not not apt when looking at the last decade plus

 

[BlueBayou]

Hmm had flashbacks to Brick from Cat on a Hot Tin Roof:

Brick: "this click that I get in my head that makes me peaceful. I got to drink till I get it"

Not not apt when looking at the last decade plus

Wow, that's an obscure reference. A Tennesee Williams quote.
I've get a feeling we are going to be friends afterall...

 

[gunslingr]

To me most of the time it’s less about the skill execution (although that’s obviously an issue) and more about that we either don’t work hard enough to or have no idea how to create options/separation. Particularly coming out of our backline and even more so from a kick in. Been an issue for quite some time so if coaches are happy with effort then it’s a coaching issue. Are the players following the game plan? If so that’s a problem with coaching. If not then how can Voss be satisfied with the effort across the board? Fix this and I think it will take pressure off significantly across the ground. It’s crazy how laboured we are coming out of our backline vs how easily our opposition waltz out of theirs.

Yep, reckon that's just about our biggest problem - it means we struggle coming out of defence and especially from kick ins (and it compounds our issues by seemingly making players just stop looking for options and automatically go down the line time and again), it means we gum it up in the middle, and in attack it means one guy is streaming forward with no one ahead of him and almost has to basically either stop and look sideways or just bomb it blindly, or our forwards are grouped together like auskickers (shout out to my 6 year old daughter and her teammates doing this just today!) until it's too late

 

[gunslingr]

Wow, that's an obscure reference. A Tennesee Williams quote.
I've get a feeling we are going to be friends afterall...

I have seen CoaHTR, the movie and now that I think of it possibly on stage, but full disclosure: my knowledge of that line is more from The National's 2005 song City Middle with the lyric:

You said "I think I'm like Tennessee Williams"
I wait for the click, I wait, but it doesn't kick in

just as the song lifts and becomes more full-throated. Check it out if you haven't heard them - they're known as a "sad dad" band, or as David Letterman called them the other day "your saddest friend's favourite band"

 

[BlueBayou]

Maybe I can just report my previous reply to you (as in the one where I was all WTF??). Will give it a crack

Edit: Reported it with this somewhat convoluted comment: Please see reference in my post here to a post I definitely did not make but which apparently game from my account (I got a quote notification) and has caused some upset. It's since been deleted but it's pretty troubling. Have since updated my password just in case (although I couldn't see any gremlins in my profile)

So, we have someone technologically savvy, clearly young, cowardly and (im)moraly capable of hijacking someone else's account in order to snipe an insult to a lifetime Bagger from behind the guise of others. Troubling indeed.

 

[BlueBayou]

I have seen CoaHTR, the movie and now that I think of it possibly on stage, but full disclosure: my knowledge of that line is more from The National's 2005 song City Middle with the lyric:

You said "I think I'm like Tennessee Williams"
I wait for the click, I wait, but it doesn't kick in

just as the song lifts and becomes more full-throated. Check it out if you haven't heard them - they're known as a "sad dad" band, or as David Letterman called them the other day "your saddest friend's favourite band"

I'm just impressed with myself that I could see the scene from the movie in my mind (having seen it all of once), and knew without reference that it was a TW quote.

For the record, I didn't like the movie much, (nor Streetcar named Desire for that matter), but Newman and Taylor are magnificently beutiful people. Not sure what this conversation has to do with Carlton though.... Happy to take it elsewhere

 

[gunslingr]

So, we have someone technologically savvy, clearly young, cowardly and (im)moraly capable of hijacking someone else's account in order to snipe an insult to a lifetime Bagger from behind the guise of others. Troubling indeed.

Wouldn't be shocked if it was a glitch, honestly - don't know that anyone who thought sending messages from someone's account would be fun would stop with just the one. Although I guess there could've been more and they were just all deleted

 

[gunslingr]

I'm just impressed with myself that I could see the scene from the movie in my mind (having seen it all of once), and knew without reference that it was a TW quote.

For the record, I didn't like the movie much, (not Streetcar named Desire for that matter), but Newman and Taylor are magnificently beutiful people. Not sure what this conversation has to do with Carlton though.... Happy to take it elsewhere

Haha was just thinking someone might be requesting that very soon. I've just realised it's my second post-12am night in a row of commenting on/reading comments about a game I will never watch again as long as I live, so I might call it anyway. Sorry that the dodgy post happened! Hope this has been more civil...

 

[BlueBayou]

Haha was just thinking someone might be requesting that very soon. I've just realised it's my second post-12am night in a row of commenting on/reading comments about a game I will never watch again as long as I live, so I might call it anyway. Sorry that the dodgy post happened! Hope this has been more civil...

We are good mate. Thanks for cleaning it all up, and clearly my ire was directed to whomever posted the insults. Not you.

 

[BlueTongue]

Last night was the first game I’ve attended in person in 2023 (and possibly the last). A couple of observations.

1) A well spoken of issue. Whilst I’m concerned about Voss it’s a bit hard to be overly critical of strategy, game plan etc when the players can’t execute basic skills. There were several promising passages of play brought undone by basic skill errors that are quite frankly unacceptable at this level. Until this issue is sorted we are going nowhere.

2) Whenever Brisbane had a free/mark/kick in at least one but more often multiple hard leads were made by Brisbane players which although not always honoured it at least created space down the field for teammates and meant that players were moving. The same could not be said for our players who are often just standing there waving their arms and ultimately means the ball is kicked to congestion. This is just an effort issue by the players.

Yes - spot on - Basic skills poor, sadly lacking composure, and so many unforced errors/turnovers.

I thought the same thing and have also thought that we still suck around the contests. I pointed it out a few weeks ago, but last night was the same again - a bunch (4 or 5) 'receivers' standing around a contest, waiting for someone else to get down to ground level and dig it out for them.
When it eventually does come out, Brisbane players were already streaming forward with no-one to check them because their opponents are all still around the last contest.

I was listening to Adam Cooney on SEN this arvo and he said something that I thought extremely relevant to Us (though he was talking about Gold Coast at the time) - to paraphrase - when you are running hot and lose momentum, the team structure comes undone pretty quickly - Which is what happens to us.
When we have momentum we win a lot of contested ball but soon go to pieces with poor disposal and unforced errors. It absolutely kills us when we turn it over on the wing or leading up to fwd 50, as we are forced to run back and defend all the time and our players are soon a spent force.

Our game plan isn't the issue, it's a lack of basic skills and composure.

 

[BlueTongue]

I've defended Voss and will continue to do so for most accusations thrown his way.

However, as many of the greatest coaches of modern sports (the major sports in the US and global professional Football) agree on throughout their autobiographies the most important aspect of a coach/manager in the modern game is to drive the players from a psychological and motivation perspective.

Voss is now the third (in a few cases forth) head coach that has struggled mightily with getting this group to play at an acceptable level of want.

They lack hunger and drive for the competition. They are mentally weak and fragile. Their efforts are not up to the standard required nearly often enough.

I've learned enough about sports throughout my life that you either have it or you don't. It starts with your on field leadership group setting the acceptable standards and communicating that to the other players on the team. This is what separates blokes like Joel Selwood from the rest.

Cripps is great when his actions are that example. Docherty is the gutsiest bloke in the competition. Even so we lack the general, the campaigner that will shoulder the on field responsibility of uniting these players who is essentially an extension of the coach.

Until we get one or until someone stands up and takes on that role we will continue to tread water.

This team needs a leader or leaders who believes in Voss enough to pull this team into line to execute his vision. Bolts, Teague and now Voss haven't had that.

Last night Brisbane had that in numbers. They won last night because of Faganism. It's more than a media term

Cannot have put it any better. Totally accurate observation.
One thing I think that makes it worse is our 'silver spoon' culture. Players have it too easy. It's the same group that do the hard work every week whilst the others fade in and out when it suits them, only to be gifted a game the following week.

Cripps, Walsh, McKay, Hewitt and now Acres it would appear, doing a lot of work and their bodies are copping more than their share of punishment because of those that just wont work harder.

He's not the only one but Honey should be traded ASAP. I'm just so Pissed off that we don't reward those that try hard. Dow's papers look to be stamped yet he's apparently been killing it at VFL level. Yes, it's not the same as AFL level, but no one wanted him at the end of last years when he was shopped around, so I'd rather give him another chance (especially when we need his type under packs) than continue to play 'freeloaders'.

 

[oldtimer22]

So, what? Sack him. Then get someone else who has to try to teach a new method. First is is a wash, then 2nd year blues and sack the next bloke too.

Scott, Hardwick and Clarkson were all very close to being sacked at one stage too. They weren't and went on to win flags.

If we keep sacking coaches we'll be in this perpetual cycle of waiting for it to click.

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Well what do you suggest is the solution? This team is loaded up with high end draft picks and it consistently cannot win games in which there is a real contest. How can a side beat WC by over 100 points and then perform as they have against real opposition? I remind you that they were booed at 3/4 time by Carlton supporters at the ground. There is a serious problem with this team. And there needs to be bold, radical surgery to the list at the end of the year. Trading out so called top end talent is one obvious option.

 

[RiCHii]

Well what do you suggest is the solution? This team is loaded up with high end draft picks and it consistently cannot win games in which there is a real contest. How can a side beat WC by over 100 points and then perform as they have against real opposition? I remind you that they were booed at 3/4 time by Carlton supporters at the ground. There is a serious problem with this team. And there needs to be bold, radical surgery to the list at the end of the year. Trading out so called top end talent is one obvious option.

The one glaring problem I see currently is the lack of selection integrity. What message do we send to the group if there is a bloke in the reserves racking up 30-40 touches each game and were not giving him a go over blokes like Ed Curnow? It's things like this that supporters see and start to become frustrated.

Last year I had faith that Voss was the man to take us to the promise land. I saw our backline decimated with injury, but new faces coming in and playing a role that made me forget we had A-Grade players sitting on the sidelines. My faith, and as it appears the faith of other Carlton supporters is no longer there. We've been irrelevant for 25 years (quarter of a century) we're well within our rights to be lacking in patience and understanding of the rubbish that we've seen dished up to us this year.

 

[Bringbackeddie]

Sad day yesterday waking up with the absolute realisation that we’re a long, long way off winning a flag. The side with the greatest skill level in history wouldn’t win a flag in this era without mental resilience. We lack basic skill, continually make embarrassing errors and we sure as hell don’t have the required mental resilience to go all the way.

It’s not all on the players either. The wider club and even us supporters are part of the problem. We over value individuals, indulge in sentimentality and get carried away with unremarkable results.

Back to hoping that we scrape into the finals whilst knowing a flag is a pipedream.