Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack II

[Gethelred]

Part I:

Mid East - Israel declare war after Hamas attack.

Breaking the law. 'International humanitarian law prohibits a siege of Gaza, UN human rights commissioner says From CNN's Eve Brennan Ravina Shamdasani speaks at the Palais des Nations in Geneva, Switzerland, on September 7, 2018. Ravina Shamdasani speaks at the Palais des Nations in...

www.bigfooty.com

Thread Rules:

Alright.

I recognise that this is a fraught topic for any number of you posting here. Some of you will have family in Israel or Palestine. Some of you will have connections to either side of the conflict. What you need to understand is that this site has rules governing posting standards and the appropriate way to talk to other posters, and you will abide by them.

How this interacts with this thread is that the following will result in your post being deleted, with a recurrence of the same behaviour resulting in (depending on severity) a threadban for a week and a day off:

• direct labelling of someone as anti-semitic or a terrorist sympathiser for posting that is merely critical of Israel's response over time. I appreciate that Israel has the right to defend themselves from violence, but that does not mean that Israel has carte blanche to attack disproportionately towards people under their care.
• deliberate goading or flippant responses, designed to get people reacting to your posting emotionally.
• abuse.
• attempts to turn this into a Left vs Right shitfight.
• If I see the word 'Nazi' in here, you had better be able to justify it in the post you're making and the comparison had better be apt. Godwin's law is in full effect for the purposes of this thread; if you refer to Nazis, you've lost whatever argument you're involved in.
• Any defense of Hamas' actions on the basis of justification. There's no justification for genocide, regardless of whether or not they have the power to do so.

Please recognise that this is a difficult time for all involved, and some level of sensitivity is absolutely required to permit discussion to flow. From time to time, mods will reach out to specific posters and do some welfare checks; we may even give posters who get a bit too involved some days off to give people some time to cool down. This is not a reflection on you as a poster, merely that this is an intense subject.

I get that this is a fairly intense topic about which opinion can diverge rather significantly. If you feel you cannot be respectful in your disagreement with another poster, it is frequently better to refuse to engage than it is to take up the call.

From this point, any poster who finds themselves directly insulting another poster will find themselves receiving a threadban and an infraction, with each subsequent reoccurance resulting in steadily more points added to your account.

If you accumulate enough points in a 12 month period you will lose privileges:

5 points - 1 week off.
10 points - 2 weeks off
15 points - 3 weeks off
20 points - Account banned.

It has also become apparent that this needs to be said: just because someone moderates a part of this forum that isn't on Int Pol or the SRP does not hold them to a different standard of posting than anyone else. All of us were posters first, and we are allowed to hold opinions on this and share them on this forum.

Treat each other with the respect each of you deserve.

Thanks all.

Play nicely, all.

 

[Number37]

Almost the same with Australia as an English colony. ( Australia blows it out of the water with respect to he Indigenous population).
What do you think should happen to the blow ins?

Its kind of amazing that when it all started, the entire population was only around a million. So i guess it would have seemed like plenty of land for everyone at the time.

Australia doesn't have a 'law of return'.
Australians don't pretend that this is their ancestral 'homeland' and therefore they have a right of return.

 

[Number37]

A vote is a majority, but its not close to all.

It doesn't matter if it is all or not.
The Israeli govt acts in the name of the Israeli people.
The IDF acts in the name of the Israeli people.

The genocide of the Palestinians is happening in the name of the Israeli people.
There is no escaping that.
History isn't going to differentiate between good Israelis and bad Israelis.
ALL Israelis are going to be dumped into the same basket.
History will associate Israelis with genocide. All of them.

 

[Number37]

Israel doesn't have our electoral system. It's proportional rather than preferential. It's always a coalition government. 3.25% of the vote gives you 4 seats in the Knesset. Bibi's party got less than 25% of the vote. The far right groups get very small %s, but that gets them seats in parliament due to their parliamentary system.

Far right groups are not just in parliament, they are coalition partners of the GOVT.
Not only are they coalition partners they became partners due to their far right demands being met.

But you continue to make excuses...

 

[sr36]

Far right groups are not just in parliament, they are coalition partners of the GOVT.
Not only are they coalition partners they became partners due to their far right demands being met.

But you continue to make excuses...

I just continue to call you out when you continue to demonise an entire population.

I wouldn't be looking at voting percentages for far right groups if I was you - there was a far right militant group that attracted a large percentage of the vote in 2006 - the last time there was the chance to vote - it wasn't Israelis voting.

 

[Saint]

It doesn't matter if it is all or not.
The Israeli govt acts in the name of the Israeli people.
The IDF acts in the name of the Israeli people.

The genocide of the Palestinians is happening in the name of the Israeli people.
There is no escaping that.
History isn't going to differentiate between good Israelis and bad Israelis.
ALL Israelis are going to be dumped into the same basket.
History will associate Israelis with genocide. All of them.

No, It's the state which is obviously rotten. That it is enabled by most of the population is undeniable, but don't underestimate the systemic impact of things like propaganda. Israelis are mostly seeing a very different image of the war than everyone outside Israel.

Plus, the impact of conscription, where they've all donned the uniform and held a gun pointed at a Palestinian. Being part of the IDF is part of what it's like to be Israeli. So it's very difficult for Israelis in that position to come out with strong criticism.

Opposition to the war is essentially banned. They're banning Al Jazeera now too.

Every news article, even in the leftie-papers starts with something like "There's no doubt the IDF are the best fighting force in the world, but....." and also "Hamas are the most vile evil people in the world and killing them is righteous".

That's why, just like the leadership of Gaza (Hamas) being rotten, as well as the system they live under, it's the same for Israel. The civilians couldn't change those facts, even if they wanted to. Israel gets too much support from abroad which facilitates their awful behaviour.

 

[sr36]

That's why, just like the leadership of Gaza (Hamas) being rotten, as well as the system they live under, it's the same for Israel. The civilians couldn't change those facts, even if they wanted to. Israel gets too much support from abroad which facilitates their awful behaviour.

Israel also needs to change their electoral system. The idea of proportional representation sounds great - but the reality is minority governments can end up aligning with the nut job fringe to have a majority.

 

[Saint]

Israel also needs to change their electoral system. The idea of proportional representation sounds great - but the reality is minority governments can end up aligning with the nut job fringe to have a majority.

A lot is being blamed on the right wing fringe groups. But Likud are a genocidal party. From the River to the Sea is their written policy, just like Hamas.

 

[Saint]

Israel have killed an Australian aid worker and her colleagues with an air-strike on their car.

Will be interesting to see if the Australian media reports it, or if the Government asks Israel to justify the murder of multiple international aid workers.

Fears that Briton is among aid workers dead in Gaza after 'airstrike'

Five aid workers with World Central Kitchen have been killed in an Israeli airstrike in Gaza, Palestinian media has reported.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[sr36]

A lot is being blamed on the right wing fringe groups. But Likud are a genocidal party. From the River to the Sea is their written policy, just like Hamas.

They've long been pro-settlements, but they haven't long been what they currently are doing. You can describe their history as being an apartheid party, but they haven't previously been genocidal.

 

[Number37]

I just continue to call you out when you continue to demonise an entire population.

I wouldn't be looking at voting percentages for far right groups if I was you - there was a far right militant group that attracted a large percentage of the vote in 2006 - the last time there was the chance to vote - it wasn't Israelis voting.

In 2006 bla-bla-bla
More excuses.
More Israelis are the real victims when Israel commits genocide.

If only Israelis cared about demonising an entire population.
But they don't. They only care about themselves.
They only care about how they can profit from genocide.
Israel is a terrorist state.
Israelis will forever be associated with genocide.

All of the woe is me in the world isn't ever going to change that.

 

[Saint]

They've long been pro-settlements, but they haven't long been what they currently are doing. You can describe their history as being an apartheid party, but they haven't previously been genocidal.

I think the fact that they supported Hamas, a violent fundamentalist party, into power showed that the deaths of Palestinian civilians certain to come did not come into their thinking as anything but a positive. That's genocidal. The methods in which settlements in the West Bank have been expanded (prior to the latest Govt coalition) was further proof. The West Bank is unashamed ethnic cleansing, it has been for decades.

They haven't had to openly commit genocide until now, but they've long been of the opinion that the death of Palestinians at either settler terrorist or Hamas terrorists hands is a positive and they have encouraged and supported both.

 

[Number37]

No, It's the state which is obviously rotten. That it is enabled by most of the population is undeniable, but don't underestimate the systemic impact of things like propaganda. Israelis are mostly seeing a very different image of the war than everyone outside Israel.

Plus, the impact of conscription, where they've all donned the uniform and held a gun pointed at a Palestinian. Being part of the IDF is part of what it's like to be Israeli. So it's very difficult for Israelis in that position to come out with strong criticism.

Opposition to the war is essentially banned. They're banning Al Jazeera now too.

Every news article, even in the leftie-papers starts with something like "There's no doubt the IDF are the best fighting force in the world, but....." and also "Hamas are the most vile evil people in the world and killing them is righteous".

That's why, just like the leadership of Gaza (Hamas) being rotten, as well as the system they live under, it's the same for Israel. The civilians couldn't change those facts, even if they wanted to. Israel gets too much support from abroad which facilitates their awful behaviour.

This didn't all start on October 7.
75 years.
75.
Israelis have been profiting from the genocide, ethnic cleansing and land theft of Israel for 75 years.

 

[Jello_B]

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-bombs-iran-embassy-syria-iranian-commanders-among-dead-2024-04-01/

Scumbags are trying to start WW3 to protect their own skins

 

[sr36]

In 2006 bla-bla-bla
More excuses.
More Israelis are the real victims when Israel commits genocide.

If only Israelis cared about demonising an entire population.
But they don't. They only care about themselves.
They only care about how they can profit from genocide.
Israel is a terrorist state.
Israelis will forever be associated with genocide.

All of the woe is me in the world isn't ever going to change that.

You're like a bot.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

An Australian aid worker may have been among those murdered by the IDF in an air strike on a vehicle owned by the food charity World Central Kitchen

Australian aid worker Zomi Frankcom killed by apparent Israeli air strike

Gaza medical officials say an Australian working with the World Central Kitchen charity was among a group of people killed by an Israeli air strike in central Gaza.

www.abc.net.au

EDIT: Just to paint a clearer picture of what the World Central Kitchen are doing in Gaza

https://www.worldcentralkitchen.org/en-us/news/41m-meals-gaza

They even deployed to Bermagui on the NSW South Coast during Black Summer 2019/2020

https://wck.org/news/wck-in-australia

 

[faible]

Israeli's are committing genocide , they should stop

Uh yeh, that.

 

[Saint]

This didn't all start on October 7.
75 years.
75.
Israelis have been profiting from the genocide, ethnic cleansing and land theft of Israel for 75 years.

The first terror attacks by both sides have been going a loooong time. I think it's too late to undo what has been done, but a lot of it needs to be winded back. But the fact is that Israel has been militarily superior for 50 years, so they've been taking what they want.

What has to end is the Western support for their behaviour. We should just stay out of it completely (embargo, BDS on both sides).

 

[Number37]

You're like a bot.

Excuse number 5327.

 

[Number37]

The first terror attacks by both sides have been going a loooong time. I think it's too late to undo what has been done, but a lot of it needs to be winded back. But the fact is that Israel has been militarily superior for 50 years, so they've been taking what they want.

What has to end is the Western support for their behaviour. We should just stay out of it completely (embargo, BDS on both sides).

Won't happen.

Israelis have conned the world into supporting genocide.
Any opposition to what they do will just be met with the usual cries of antisemitism, woe is me and nOt AlL iSrAeLiS.

 

[Boston tiger]

In 2006 bla-bla-bla
More excuses.
More Israelis are the real victims when Israel commits genocide.

If only Israelis cared about demonising an entire population.
But they don't. They only care about themselves.
They only care about how they can profit from genocide.
Israel is a terrorist state.
Israelis will forever be associated with genocide.

All of the woe is me in the world isn't ever going to change that.

Have a listen to yourself. Is that straight from the Hamas let’s not surrender play book?

 

[sherb]

I just continue to call you out when you continue to demonise an entire population.

I wouldn't be looking at voting percentages for far right groups if I was you - there was a far right militant group that attracted a large percentage of the vote in 2006 - the last time there was the chance to vote - it wasn't Israelis voting.

I'm happy to demonise those Israelis who support the actions of the current government.

They are complete and utter scum.

 

[Saint]

I'm happy to demonise those Israelis who support the actions of the current government.

They are complete and utter scum.

There are Israelis who support the current action because they've lost loved ones, lots more on the Palestinian side. I could see where they could be coming from. But if you're in support of the IDF's actions, or Hamas having not been directly or even indirectly involved, then I think there's something wrong with you (most likely religion).

Both sides are taught at a young age to hate the other. It's the only way they can get them to support these genocidal policies.

 

[Saint]

Which lie do you think the IDF will go with?

1. Driver was Hamas? see dead journalists
2. Hamas rocket mis-fired and somehow scored a direct hit on a car in Gaza killing all the occupants even though they've never destroyed a car in the history of rocket fire? - see hospital destroyed by massive blast which in no way resembled Hamas rocket.
3. Nothing can be proven, can't we all move on? - See Shireen Abu-Akleh
4. Lentils are Hamas? When 1-3 doesn't work

IDF opens investigation after Palestinian media says five aid workers killed

A Gaza airstrike killed five, including aid workers. IDF launched an investigation. World Central Kitchen condemns, Australia seeks verification.

www.jpost.com

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Israelis have conned the world into supporting genocide.
Any opposition to what they do will just be met with the usual cries of antisemitism, woe is me and nOt AlL iSrAeLiS.

It's only a con if they're deceptive - the Zionist Cancer is NOT deceptive. Every government that deals with it knows full well that it is an apartheid political entity. They still trade with it and include it diplomatically in world affairs.

The Zionist Cancer DOES NOT DESERVE to be included in the international community. In a political sense, it only deserves to be destroyed.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

In 2006 bla-bla-bla
More excuses.
More Israelis are the real victims when Israel commits genocide.

If only Israelis cared about demonising an entire population.
But they don't. They only care about themselves.
They only care about how they can profit from genocide.
Israel is a terrorist state.
Israelis will forever be associated with genocide.

All of the woe is me in the world isn't ever going to change that.

So someone big and powerful comes and stops them.
You get to choose what happens next?
What do you do to the Israeli's that were born in Israel?