SANFL/WAFL clubs joining AFL

[Ned_Flanders]

I think Tas should have a team.

My comments relate to 2 things.
1) Why they don't have one already (there were better options)
2) Why dropping a Vic club because it's not viable to make a spot for a Tas club doesn't make sense (Tas club ~= Small Vic club, so if the Vic club isn't viable, Tas probably wouldn't be either)

Big diff for (2) is the small Vic clubs wouldnt get a long term sponsorship deal from the Tassie govt, Tassie would

The Tassie team has something companies love, differentiation - in Melbourne you're one of 9

 

[telsor]

Big diff for (2) is the small Vic clubs wouldnt get a long term sponsorship deal from the Tassie govt, Tassie would

The Tassie team has something companies love, differentiation - in Melbourne you're one of 9

True, and the Melb clubs have something the television stations love...Ratings (in a market where they actually count them).

As for Tas gov't sponsorship...Yes and no...The Tas economy (and budget) isn't all that flash, once a footy team is in place it could become a 'political promise' and they could easily decide that there are more pressing needs. Not to mention the Feds might start asking why they're paying massive overs on GST to support a football team.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

True, and the Melb clubs have something the television stations love...Ratings (in a market where they actually count them).

As for Tas gov't sponsorship...Yes and no...The Tas economy (and budget) isn't all that flash, once a footy team is in place it could become a 'political promise' and they could easily decide that there are more pressing needs. Not to mention the Feds might start asking why they're paying massive overs on GST to support a football team.

Melbournians dont just watch melbourne teams on the TV

 

[telsor]

Melbournians dont just watch melbourne teams on the TV

That's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying the Tas market is so small, the main ratings companies don't measure it. (there is some, but it's slower, less accurate and not very well regarded/influential, so prices don't vary due to it nearly as much)

No ratings means the TV stations don't really care what they put on because the advertisers aren't paying more/less for the ratings...Or to put it another way, GC Vs GWS broadcast into Tas earns the TV station about as much as a Tas game would.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

That's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying the Tas market is so small, the main ratings companies don't measure it. (there is some, but it's slower, less accurate and not very well regarded/influential, so prices don't vary due to it nearly as much)

No ratings means the TV stations don't really care what they put on because the advertisers aren't paying more/less for the ratings...Or to put it another way, GC Vs GWS broadcast into Tas earns the TV station about as much as a Tas game would.

who cares? having a tassie team down there will still be watched in Melbourne, probably more than the side it replaces (lets be honest, how many Dees games do you watch)?

 

[telsor]

who cares? having a tassie team down there will still be watched in Melbourne, probably more than the side it replaces (lets be honest, how many Dees games do you watch)?

Which do you think would get higher ratings in Melbourne?

Melbourne Vs <A team>
Tas Vs <the same team>

If you pick the first, then there is more money for the TV network (and thus for the AFL next rights negotiation).

Meanwhile in Tas, it doesn't matter which game is played, because the $$$ wont change much.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Which do you think would get higher ratings in Melbourne?

Melbourne Vs <A team>
Tas Vs <the same team>

If you pick the first, then there is more money for the TV network (and thus for the AFL next rights negotiation).

Meanwhile in Tas, it doesn't matter which game is played, because the $$$ wont change much.

Most Dees fans I know dont even what their own team any more

 

[telsor]

Most Dees fans I know dont even what their own team any more

Hey, if a club volunteers to leave, then I don't have a problem with that.

Hell, I don't mind clubs being chucked out, if after given a decent run with a fair fixture and ground deal they fail to meet agreed standards (which all clubs, not just Vic clubs, must meet).

 

[madmug]

Hey, if a club volunteers to leave, then I don't have a problem with that.

Hell, I don't mind clubs being chucked out, if after given a decent run with a fair fixture and ground deal they fail to meet agreed standards (which all clubs, not just Vic clubs, must meet).

Is 100 years for one flag good enough?

 

[sverik25]

Is 100 years for one flag good enough?

I think he means financial standards, not on field success.

 

[telsor]

I think he means financial standards, not on field success.

Financial criteria and support base.

Something like revenue (excluding disequal league revenues not specifically making up for a disadvantage) of at least 75% of the average. (not sure what the exact number would be).

 

[Albert Ross]

Big diff for (2) is the small Vic clubs wouldnt get a long term sponsorship deal from the Tassie govt, Tassie would

The Tassie team has something companies love, differentiation - in Melbourne you're one of 9

Big difference in Vic is that the population increases by the size of Tassie every 5 years. Most projections have the Tassie population declining. In 5 years time there will as many new eyeballs in Vic as there currently are in Tassie. And sponsors like eyeballs too, not just broadcasters. Tassie government won't be best pleased ramping up the sponsorship dollars every few years as the price of sponsoring Collingwood goes up and up and up.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Big difference in Vic is that the population increases by the size of Tassie every 5 years. Most projections have the Tassie population declining. In 5 years time there will as many new eyeballs in Vic as there currently are in Tassie. And sponsors like eyeballs too, not just broadcasters. Tassie government won't be best pleased ramping up the sponsorship dollars every few years as the price of sponsoring Collingwood goes up and up and up.

As I mentioned previously, I suspect you would get more eyeballs watching a local tassie team in Melbourne/Tas than you would currently for someone like Melbourne.

Problem with the smaller teams in Melbourne, is if they are not successful there is very little support to watch them at all. At least with Tassie you have an entire state to fall back on

 

[Kwality]

Hey, if a club volunteers to leave, then I don't have a problem with that.

Hell, I don't mind clubs being chucked out, if after given a decent run with a fair fixture and ground deal they fail to meet agreed standards (which all clubs, not just Vic clubs, must meet).

Sadly it would be rationalism gone crazy to apply the same rules to all markets in Australia. A good example of that would be to divide GST based on geographic area.

 

[telsor]

Sadly it would be rationalism gone crazy to apply the same rules to all markets in Australia. A good example of that would be to divide GST based on geographic area.

OK, so break it into established and emerging markets and have different criteria (if emerging market club is not growing at a decent rate, then it's future gets reassessed).

If a club in the shrinking market of Tas is less financially viable than one in the growing Vic market, then how can you argue to remove the Vic club?

 

[Kwality]

Big difference in Vic is that the population increases by the size of Tassie every 5 years. Most projections have the Tassie population declining. In 5 years time there will as many new eyeballs in Vic as there currently are in Tassie. And sponsors like eyeballs too, not just broadcasters. Tassie government won't be best pleased ramping up the sponsorship dollars every few years as the price of sponsoring Collingwood goes up and up and up.

Disagree. 11 home games will draw Melbourne fans, good for the Tas economy. Of course the AFL FIXture will need to be fairer than the current Tas fixturing designed to protect crowd numbers in Melbourne.

 

[telsor]

Disagree. 11 home games will draw Melbourne fans, good for the Tas economy. Of course the AFL FIXture will need to be fairer than the current Tas fixturing designed to protect crowd numbers in Melbourne.

Really, how many people do you think fly to Tas to see a game?

You'd get the same diehards who would go to Adelaide or Sydney...Maybe 1000 or so per match, most of whom would fly in, see the game and fly straight out again with any additional spending kept to a minimum (otherwise they couldn't travel to so many games).

Most of the $'s raise would be through getting the locals to part with their cash, and while there is some economic gain from increased money flow, it's really pretty marginal. Like Melbourne with the Grand Prix, the gain would be in 'profile' and 'awareness' which some bean counter gives a value to which just happens to suit the agenda of those trying to justify the sponsorship/spending.

 

[Albert Ross]

Disagree. 11 home games will draw Melbourne fans, good for the Tas economy. Of course the AFL FIXture will need to be fairer than the current Tas fixturing designed to protect crowd numbers in Melbourne.

So there are enough fans in Victoria to underpin a Tassie team but not enough to support a Vic team?

 

[Kwality]

So there are enough fans in Victoria to underpin a Tassie team but not enough to support a Vic team?

Hello ... ummm, what?

The Tassie AFL sponsorship is reportedly successful based around 5-6 games in Tas regularly against non Vic clubs. But, there are so many home & away games in Melbourne for all bar the Hawks, versus Tassie, where limited home games only will produce a stadium booked out scenario similar to the other traditional AFL markets of Perth & Adelaide.

 

[The_Wookie]

Hello ... ummm, what?

The Tassie AFL sponsorship is reportedly successful based around 5-6 games in Tas regularly against non Vic clubs. But, there are so many home & away games in Melbourne for all bar the Hawks versus Tassie where limited home games only will produce a stadium booked up scenario similar to the other traditional AFL markets of Perth & Adelaide.

yes but your previous post seems to indicate that traveling fans will be a factor, like they are on the Gold Coast. These fine gentlemen seem to believe otherwise. Me, Im on the fence a bit, I dont think Tasmania has the same appeal as Gold Coast as a destination, but Tassie is just a ferry ride away, and the Tasmanian government believes that Tourism justifies the expenditure, so who am i to argue.

 

[Kwality]

yes but your previous post seems to indicate that traveling fans will be a factor, like they are on the Gold Coast. These fine gentlemen seem to believe otherwise. Me, Im on the fence a bit, I dont think Tasmania has the same appeal as Gold Coast as a destination, but Tassie is just a ferry ride away, and the Tasmanian government believes that Tourism justifies the expenditure, so who am i to argue.

Tassie indicates the gain from sponsoring the Hawks is tourism. Even though the TT Line are supporting North in Hobart, the only reason for that must be increased patronage.
More games involving Vic clubs might be expected to draw more tourists from Melbourne whereas tourists from other states have higher air fares.

 

[telsor]

Tassie indicates the gain from sponsoring the Hawks is tourism. Even though the TT Line are supporting North in Hobart, the only reason for that must be increased patronage.
More games involving Vic clubs might be expected to draw more tourists from Melbourne whereas tourists from other states have higher air fares.

I repeat. Just how many people do you think travel for a game (and how much do you think they spend)?

 

[telsor]

As an aside...

Tassie is the struggling Vic side of the commonwealth. They're long term strugglers who only get by based on 'disequal funding'.

I wonder if those who want them to get a government sponsored side because everyone else has one also support small Vic clubs having the AFL pay for 'luxuries' that other clubs have.

 

[Kwality]

I repeat. Just how many people do you think travel for a game (and how much do you think they spend)?

Given my abacus needs new batteries I suggest you leave that to the pros like those paying the bills aka the Taswegian govt.

You are aware these sponsorship monies are expected to give a return they aren't a gift.

 

[The_Wookie]

Given my abacus needs new batteries I suggest you leave that to the pros like those paying the bills aka the Taswegian govt.

You are aware these sponsorship monies are expected to give a return they aren't a gift.

hes free to speculate, and hes free to ask the question since you believe its important. Your abacus needs new batteries? Thats not exactly a ringing endorsement of your position on tourists visting tasmania for games. it was a legit question.