Connecting the dots - Are we on the brink of calamity?

[Long Live HFC]

lol, of course it is. it was a public relations stunt by the citizens for a free kuwait/the kuwaiti government. at the time it was hard to verify since iraq was busy looting the country. while we should certainly hold the media to account for not looking hard enough, they weren't deliberately repeating falsehoods they knew to be untrue.

you'd know all this if you weren't a toddler at the time.

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/01/15/opinion/deception-on-capitol-hill.html

 

[Smiling Buddha]

lol you leave out the part where a 'public relations' (propaganda) firm were hired, the US president repeated the lie at least a dozen times, etc.

You really think the gov/msm didn't know? As if you are that naive.

 

[Long Live HFC]

lol you leave out the part where a 'public relations' (propaganda) firm were hired

really? i provided you with a link that showed exactly that. how is a public relations (private) firm = the MSM/govt? the PR firm was hired by kuwait, not the US.

the US president repeated the lie at least a dozen times, etc.

lots of people did.

You really think the gov/msm didn't know? As if you are that naive.

prove otherwise.

like i said, you were still sucking on your mumma's **** at the time. your revisionist bollocks doesn't work on those of us that experienced it.

 

[awaremind]

The Kuwaiti Royal family has been in bed with the highest eschalons of anglo/US leadership for over 100 years. They are inseparable. The Sheik of Kuwait signed a binding treaty of perpetual allegiance with Britain in 1899 and it is still effectively in force.

 

[Long Live HFC]

and?

 

[Illinois Nazi]

Because that isn't a 'fact' you siller duffer lol.

Yes it is. I'm old enough to remember when all that went down, and the fact that Kuwait's first action on being invaded, before even calling for military aid from the US et al, was to engage a top PR firm was well known.

The hospital stuff came out soon afterwards, but really did not have any affect on the events that were already in train by then.

 

[Long Live HFC]

Yes it is. I'm old enough to remember when all that went down, and the fact that Kuwait's first action on being invaded, before even calling for military aid from the US et al, was to engage a top PR firm was well known.

The hospital stuff came out soon afterwards, but really did not have any affect on the events that were already in train by then.

Yep, the war was all about energy, and saddam’s habit of using oil as a weapon. The US were on the ground a month or 3 before the PR stunt, and it had negligible impact on the (imo inevitable) desert storm. Certainly the testimony may have convinced a few US congressman to support the war, but SB’s incessant assertions exaggerate the overall importance of it.

 

[awaremind]

The Kuwaiti's had been deliberately flooding the oil market, which was choking Saddam economically, and Saddam had been given false assurances that the US et al wouldn't get involved if he attacked kuwait, when in fact it was thier plan all along to attack and eventually exploit Iraq, ffs they are still at it. The babies thing was a reletively minor PR stunt.

 

[Long Live HFC]

Yeah that’s a distortion of what actually happened, but regardless it’s completely irrelevant to SB’s unproven assertion that the media and western governments were “in on it” (the Kuwaiti PR stunt).

 

[awaremind]

What actually happened?

 

[Long Live HFC]

Well, while you are correct that Kuwait was pumping out too much oil (and that this action was obviously “deliberate”), it wasn’t designed to cripple Iraq. Iraq owed Kuwait a bunch of money for loans. Crippling Iraq economically meant they’d never get what they were owed. The US didn’t give saddam false assurances that he could invade or do whatever he liked, they simply stated they were neutral in the ongoing dispute and weren’t going to punish Iraq for the dispute. How saddam interpreted this advice is anyone’s guess of course, but the invasion certainly seems to indicate he thought it was thumbs up from Washington.

I am aware of no evidence that suggests the US tricked Iraq into invading Kuwait in order to attack Iraq themselves. I don’t find that position compelling at all. The fact that the US held off invading Iraq, bringing saddam down etc when it had the opportunity, undermines that argument.

 

[awaremind]

Well, while you are correct that Kuwait was pumping out too much oil (and that this action was obviously “deliberate”), it wasn’t designed to cripple Iraq. Iraq owed Kuwait a bunch of money for loans. Crippling Iraq economically meant they’d never get what they were owed. The US didn’t give saddam false assurances that he could invade or do whatever he liked, they simply stated they were neutral in the ongoing dispute and weren’t going to punish Iraq for the dispute. How saddam interpreted this advice is anyone’s guess of course, but the invasion certainly seems to indicate he thought it was thumbs up from Washington.

I am aware of no evidence that suggests the US tricked Iraq into invading Kuwait in order to attack Iraq themselves. I don’t find that position compelling at all. The fact that the US held off invading Iraq, bringing saddam down etc when it had the opportunity, undermines that argument.

Us ambassador to Iraq April Glaspie told Saddam that washington would not take a position in the dispute between Kuwait and Iraq.

So why was Kuwait flooding the oil market ?

I thought that it was because of the significant opposition at home that held the US back from a ground invasion. Bush was going on about New world orders at that time whatever that was supposed to mean, and the US had enough of an Idea that Iraq was going to attack that the al-Sabah clan evacuated on its warning...but did not tell the Kuwaiti military .

It did allow the US to station troops in Saudi Arabia, which the Saudis had resisted for decades. James Akins the former ambassador to Saudi arabia claimed that as far back as 1975 that Kissinger was arguing that the US should find a pretext to occupy the vital mideastern oilfields.

 

[Illinois Nazi]

Someone should get the relevant bits out and make a thread on the history board for this Iraq-Kuwait stuff.

 

[Long Live HFC]

Us ambassador to Iraq April Glaspie told Saddam that washington would not take a position in the dispute between Kuwait and Iraq.

correct. not that the US would stand idly by if saddam went a-plundering.

So why was Kuwait flooding the oil market ?

i don't know. wiki tells me that kuwait had agreed to lower production levels shortly before the invasion, but as to why they were overproducing, i'd need to spend more time. it's been a few years since i thought about the first gulf war!

I thought that it was because of the significant opposition at home that held the US back from a ground invasion.

you could be right, but i think it's a bit silly to say on one hand the US tricked iraq into war because the US wanted to attack iraq to plunder its oil (or whatever), but on the other hand the schemers were put off by public opinion? doesn't pass the sniff test.

 

[awaremind]

correct. not that the US would stand idly by if saddam went a-plundering.



i don't know. wiki tells me that kuwait had agreed to lower production levels shortly before the invasion, but as to why they were overproducing, i'd need to spend more time. it's been a few years since i thought about the first gulf war!



you could be right, but i think it's a bit silly to say on one hand the US tricked iraq into war because the US wanted to attack iraq to plunder its oil (or whatever), but on the other hand the schemers were put off by public opinion? doesn't pass the sniff test.

Bush seemed to have some pre-occupation with implementing a "New World Order" at this time - and then people such as James H Webb were making statements like"The purpose of our presence in the Persian Gulf is to further the Bush administration's New World Order and I don't like it"...
The USA's bombing campaign ruined Saddam's industrial capabilities and extensive rail network, including the Berlin to Baghdad railway. That war was also funded by Germany, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and Japan to such an extent that according to some there was actually a profit for conducting the war.

 

[Freo2012]

Came across this interesting video - Russian nationalism movement - cleaning out the "fifth column" (West's bankers influence). If this is indeed real and gains the necessary momentum the Oligarch's have some very serious decisions to make as to if they remain "Russian" - the risk of nationalising their massive assets or accepting "the Russian way" and still remain extremely wealthy whilst fully adopting Russian nationalism. In case any are unaware Russian culture is one of never conceding defeat (just look through their history - they are always willing to pay the ultimate price to protect their culture and identity) - something the US and West don't fully appreciate. What the US also fails to appreciate is that the economic war they are waging is actually being used by Putin and Co to further the "nationalism" culture in Russia and thus give great life to this movement. The sanctions etc that are being used now to hurt the Oligarchs and Russian economy are actually playing into the hands of the "russian nationalism" movement (as well as all the various nationalistic movements in many european countries), and whilst hurting the Russian economy are also extremely hurting western europe when it is close to being on its economic knees. There is a rising culture in Russia of the "cold war" and the west trying to destroy russia. So is this indeed real or just propaganda with no chance of success?

hmmmhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qLMG0KD3rI

If this is real and has the momentum necessary (support by the general Russian people) and the West (the banker elite) won't give up their pursuit of control over everyone and all resources - some dangerous times approaching for the West, the conflicts won't be confined to eastern europe and middle east in this ultimate power play. Seems to me the Russians are in total strategic control of the total situation (geo-political) and allowing the US and west to play exactly into their hands.

 

[The Speaker]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-24/one-third-of-asx-companies-fragile/5764640

 

[Smiling Buddha]

Yeah I saw that one. Very interesting.

Related, since 2008 Melbourne and Sydney real estate has gone up 50%.

It is an open secret that this 'growth' is predominantly driven by Chinese investors.

The FIRB has openly admitted that it cannot police the laws re this. Official figures are thus bullshit.

It is basically a game of musical chairs, except when the music stops, there isn't one less chair, there is one less floor.

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

 

[clogged]

There's always another floor.

 

[Yellow Feathers]

Back into Syria.... Of course.

 

[Freo2012]

"Goldman Tapes" - A little article about the banks controlling the financial authorities, not the other way round as it is supposed to be - but I think most reading these forums would be aware of how the real world operates. Unfortunately they cannot help themselves when it comes to excesses, and that will cause us pain when the delayed GFC financial bubble (including derivatives and other markets) really does burst (it has gotten far worse than back then).

http://www.bloombergview.com/articl...l&utm_source=linkedin.com&utm_campaign=buffer

 

[Shane Hird]

Every time I read this thread I start thinking about ways of how I can get my hands on a decent firearm and a big box of bullets.

 

[Shane Hird]

Even Trump is getting ready for the end...




http://www.moneynews.com/Outbrain/Trump-Aftershock-American-Economy/2012/11/06/id/462985/

The United States could soon become a large-scale Spain or Greece, teetering on the edge of financial ruin.

That’s according to Donald Trump, who painted a very ugly picture of where this country is headed. Trump made the comments during a recent appearance on Fox News’ “On the Record with Greta Van Susteren.”

 

[Freo2012]

Every time I read this thread I start thinking about ways of how I can get my hands on a decent firearm and a big box of bullets.

Luckily we don't live in USA with their "right to bear arms" mentality that has everyone, especially gangs, armed to the teeth (and also has there law enforcement outnumbered 5:1 by gang members - it is the extreme opposite here).

We live in what I consider the best of Western Countries without the gang and other problems of other western countries so extremely unlikely we would ever have a total breakdown in society. We also have far better financial prudential regulation which along with mining (China development) helped us through the GFC, though that situation has not been solved yet and we will suffer hardship with what is coming. But some civil unrest is a possibility. Most likely scenario is a severe depression with significant financial troubles, so more about setting yourself up with defensive assets, not much debt and being able to look after family and friends where possible. And if you are worried about war or ebola or other scenarios - just make sure you have adequate supplies of food, water (containers) and suitable supplies (medical etc) to enable you to survive any lockdown or quarantine situation (stuff that you would most likely consume anyway so easy to keep a rolling topup to ensure $ not wasted). It is only in most recent generations that we rely totally on JIT (2-3 days of food etc) and distribution networks are very likely to be disrupted in any number of situations.

The gang members to enforcement number is a very big deal - in the US if there is significant trouble the whole country will go to anarchy as enforcement will be more interested in saving their own family first when they are significantly outnumbered. Here, with the opposite situation in personnel and weapons, enforcement and government and civil structures should remain in place.

 

[Long Live HFC]

"severe depression" is the "most likely" scenario?