Oppo Camp Non Eagles Discussion Thread

[tesseract]

To be honest I am 100% happy with the decision - I kind of think they made the wrong decision for the right reasons if you know what i mean. It sounds like it was very very likely the players took substances that were banned (there's also the chance they DIDN'T take beta 4 which I hope is the case) but I also don't think anyone believes the 34 players knowingly chose to do the wrong thing with it all.

Finding that there was not enough evidence to convict them doesn't absolve the essendon football club of blame - rather it casts a spotlight on the dodginess of the whole program, and I'm sure the whole sporting world is looking harshly at the Essendon officials responsible like Dank, The Weapon, possibly Hird and Little and definitely all the club doctors. However finding the players guilty would do more harm to the lives of 34 people then it would do good in discracing essendon officials. The players have obviously had a s**t few years as a result of this and I really feel for them and am glad they can resume their careers and lives and just play footy again.

It's not the best look for our sport that this verdict has happened but I'm far happier that 34 human beings (who were the real victims of the saga) and their families have achieved the best outcome of the trial and can now move on a bit. The club will still look dodgy, the other clubs have been given a wake up call and it's unlikely that the Essendon drug program will now repeat itself anywhere else, the players have already been punished through scrutiny and the finals ban (for POSSIBLY committing a crime they had no idea about) and now these 34 people can move on as long as ASADA hopefully doesn't appeal.

So yeah I'm relieved for them that the case turned out the way it did.

I think you're going to need more than a band-aid for your bleeding heart.

 

[ep2018]

My issue has always been the AFL with this. The players were jabbed unknowingly with or without PEDs. Feel sorry for the players who put up with the media hounding you for years. You know your club doctor comes up to you with a needle and you feel comfortable enough to take it. Essendon copped their due by missing out on the finals in 2013. But the AFL orchestrated this result. And if it were us, we'd have been thrown under the bus. Fcuking kents.

 

[truman]

It's not a question of being vindictive.

I mean Ben Cousins didn't test positive for anything but was found guilty of bringing the game into disrepute.

Arguing that you can hide behind "the club made me do it" is no different to excusing East German athletes or Chinese swimmers. The players have obligations and, at least some Essendon players decided against participation, suggesting it was neither compulsory nor done with absolute conformity of view.

They choose to participate.

The lack of a positive test isn't an automatic get out clause and hearing them today talking about being vindicated and knowing they did nothing wrong is absolute and utter bollocks. IMO.

Thanks for arguing my point for me. Firstly Ben Cousins was a completely different scenario in that no doctor at the club encouraged him to take Ice, I'm guessing. But you're right, just like Ben Cousins wasn't banned for taking a drugs he never tested positive for why should the bombers players be banned for taking drugs they never tested for? Cousins was banned for bringing the game into disrepute (ruining away from booze busses, being found naked in crown etc.) Like I said Essendon have already been done for that. Firstly I can't talk about Germany but isn't it common knowledge that Chinese athletes are taken away from their families and trained intensively to compete. I'm pretty sure if they're told to take supplements from their medical team they're not in a position to negotiate.

But yes your right there is no excuse, if you test positive you get banned. What I'm saying is if the team doctors and coaches at West Coast reassured our players whatever they were taking is above board our players would do it without question. I don't call that cheating even if I understand the players should be banned, as they had no intention of giving themselves an advantage.

All this is moot because the most important thing is that no player tested positive for an illegal substance, so how can you possibly ban them and how can anyone hope they get banned? I think that is vindictive, hoping someone suffers even though they had no intention of doing anything wrong and have not been proven to do anything wrong.

 

[RookiePick]

Bombers have taken a whack with missing finals, fines and draft penalties but all I have in my head is Johnny 23 from Con Air

"They'd call me Johnny 600 if they knew the truth!" *evil laughter*

Just a corrupt system where something that could have brought down a club or indeed the comp gets "taken care of" and blokes who stuff up chasing their dream/trying to recover from injury will (rightfully) get destroyed by the same system. Don't derail the gravy train that keeps so many "comfortably satisfied"

Best hope is WADA will finally get some convictions a few years down the track when Essendon has prepared their list for the hit. Disgraceful really and a blight on our national game.

 

[Yamumluvsbigcox]

It was very convenient that the show cause notices were received after the finals and the court deliberation was done before round 1 if only just .
Some very careful planning has gone into this to make it run so smoothly

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

But the AFL orchestrated this result. And if it were us, we'd have been thrown under the bus. Fcuking kents.

Did you miss my point about the difficulty of meeting the higher standard of proof last time you made this ridiculous claim, or just choose not to believe it?

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Thanks to Essendons flagrant drug use and the fact the players haven't been punished by ASADA I will now flagrantly engage in the taking and sale of peptides!

The way has been set people, James Hird has been affirmed as the most cutting edge coach in the AFL.

Get on Essendon to win the next three flags in a canter!

Dark Sharks "Sarcasm."


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Dark Sharks]

Oh thank god.

 

[mattyc75]

so what did james hird get banned for?

 

[Keys]

so what did james hird get banned for?

Being a campaigner

 

[mattyc75]

Being a campaigner

should have gotten longer

 

[Marlin01]

I still have a couple of things I'm not clear on:

- which non-sanctioned substances were Essendon alleged to have taken by ASADA?

- was Dank never forced to testify?

 

[Keys]

I still have a couple of things I'm not clear on:

- which non-sanctioned substances were Essendon alleged to have taken by ASADA?

- was Dank never forced to testify?

The charge was for using TB4

The tribunal has no power to force people to appear before it if they don't want to unless they are employed by an AFL club

ASADAs case was weakened substantially by the refusal of charters and alavi to testify at the tribunal

ASADA could have forced dank to be interviewed but would not have been able to make him answer questions. He only had to turn up so they didn't bother

 

[mattyc75]

talk about faces with egg on them

 

[Marlin01]

The charge was for using TB4

The tribunal has no power to force people to appear before it if they don't want to unless they are employed by an AFL club

ASADAs case was weakened substantially by the refusal of charters and alavi to testify at the tribunal

ASADA could have forced dank to be interviewed but would not have been able to make him answer questions. He only had to turn up so they didn't bother

Thanks Keyser. Certainly seems a blueprint has been drawn as to how to systematically beat the system.

 

[MrKK]

I've never bought the line that the Essendon players were gullible, innocent lambs in all this. There's been scant evidence of any fractured relationship between the playing group and the club/Hird over the last 2 years - no mass exodus of players wanting to be traded out, no pushback on Hird returning as coach. If I'd truly felt that the club had sold my health down the river and couldn't/wouldn't tell me what I'd been injected with then I don't think I could put my body on the line week in, week out for that jumper the way they have. Maybe they are the greatest professionals in the history of football but I strongly doubt it.

If I see Watson and Hird hoisting the cup on the premiership dais any time I will literally vomit.

 

[Eagle87]

Thanks for arguing my point for me. Firstly Ben Cousins was a completely different scenario in that no doctor at the club encouraged him to take Ice, I'm guessing. But you're right, just like Ben Cousins wasn't banned for taking a drugs he never tested positive for why should the bombers players be banned for taking drugs they never tested for? Cousins was banned for bringing the game into disrepute (ruining away from booze busses, being found naked in crown etc.) Like I said Essendon have already been done for that. Firstly I can't talk about Germany but isn't it common knowledge that Chinese athletes are taken away from their families and trained intensively to compete. I'm pretty sure if they're told to take supplements from their medical team they're not in a position to negotiate.

But yes your right there is no excuse, if you test positive you get banned. What I'm saying is if the team doctors and coaches at West Coast reassured our players whatever they were taking is above board our players would do it without question. I don't call that cheating even if I understand the players should be banned, as they had no intention of giving themselves an advantage.

All this is moot because the most important thing is that no player tested positive for an illegal substance, so how can you possibly ban them and how can anyone hope they get banned? I think that is vindictive, hoping someone suffers even though they had no intention of doing anything wrong and have not been proven to do anything wrong.

Wow, there's missing a point and then there's this post.

See A Rod and see Marion Jones for people banned from both team and individual sports without a positive test.

They got banned, rightfully, for taking illegal substances even though they didn't test positive.

The argument that players didn't intend to do anything wrong is moot. Almost everyone ever banned for failing a test claims honest mistake or inadvertent error. The issue is that players are informed clearly that any injection had to be done under the auspicious of the club doctor.

In this situation that was not the case. The fact it was done off site and repeatedly should have aroused even greater suspicion.

These players should have raised concerns. The simple fact that taking injections from those other than the club doctor and via consent forms not signed by the club doctor - a violation of clearly explained (to the players) AFL rules - is sufficient to make the players culpable of a breach of the rules. Frankly that's true even if the injections were Vitamin C. As such the players did "cheat" and should get some form of punishment.

They knowingly ignored AFL rules and allowed themselves to be injected.

Your assertion regarding team doctors at West Coast is wrong on many levels. Firstly the Essendon club doctor was not on board with this program per my above comments - so you're point is moot. Secondly, professional sports people get no out because they are sheeple. See my earlier East German and Chinese examples. They all thought they were part of cutting edge supplements programs.

It's not about being vindictive, it's not about seeking to punish innocent little lambs. They were guilty of breaking the rules of the game even without a positive test.

If you're not clear on the protocol, sees Roos comments in the video I posted earlier re Tim Watson.

 

[WCE_phil]

Wow, there's missing a point and then there's this post.

See A Rod and see Marion Jones for people banned from both team and individual sports without a positive test.

They got banned, rightfully, for taking illegal substances even though they didn't test positive.

The argument that players didn't intend to do anything wrong is moot. Almost everyone ever banned for failing a test claims honest mistake or inadvertent error. The issue is that players are informed clearly that any injection had to be done under the auspicious of the club doctor.

In this situation that was not the case. The fact it was done off site and repeatedly should have aroused even greater suspicion.

These players should have raised concerns. The simple fact that taking injections from those other than the club doctor and via consent forms not signed by the club doctor - a violation of clearly explained (to the players) AFL rules - is sufficient to make the players culpable of a breach of the rules. Frankly that's true even if the injections were Vitamin C. As such the players did "cheat" and should get some form of punishment.

They knowingly ignored AFL rules and allowed themselves to be injected.

Your assertion regarding team doctors at West Coast is wrong on many levels. Firstly the Essendon club doctor was not on board with this program per my above comments - so you're point is moot. Secondly, professional sports people get no out because they are sheeple. See my earlier East German and Chinese examples. They all thought they were part of cutting edge supplements programs.

It's not about being vindictive, it's not about seeking to punish innocent little lambs. They were guilty of breaking the rules of the game even without a positive test.

If you're not clear on the protocol, sees Roos comments in the video I posted earlier re Tim Watson.

Probably your best ever post.

 

[lewigie]

Is there an article or something out there that describes how they managed to reach this conclusion??

 

[paran]

The whole player group, coach and club should be charged with bringing the game into disrepute.

 

[WCErevival]

Lets hope they dont make any comparison between Essendon and the ANZACs on ANZAC day

 

[Eagle87]

Is there an article or something out there that describes how they managed to reach this conclusion??

Not really because the 130+ page report is confidential unless all 34 players agree for out to be released.

Farcical.

http://m.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news...rdkeeping-was-deplorable-20150331-1mc8hi.html

 

[West Coast 06]

Is there an article or something out there that describes how they managed to reach this conclusion??

There is a summary of the summary in the media.
The tribunal basically acknowledged that TB4 was ordered and delivered from GL Biochemicals in China to Charters. Charters gave it to Alavi to compound and he gave it to Dank. They are not sure Dank received it "in his capacity as an Essendon representative".

They do not accept that another form of "Thymosin" was ever used.

They cannot be sure Dank injected TB4 into the players.

This is despite- Good Thymosin not accepted
- Dank admitting on TV he used TB4 on players (before they told him it is banned)
- Charters giving Dank the dosage regime for TB4 and that same regime being on the consent forms.
- Consent forms for Thymosin
- Players admitting in interviews they were injected with Thymosin

It is an utter crock of s**t decision and I am with WCEPhil, if I didn't love the Eagles so much I would turn my back on this game.

 

[MIKE85]

The whole player group, coach and club should be charged with bringing the game into disrepute.

They were. That's why they were kicked out of the finals in 2013, and Hird was supsended for 12 months, plus a few other officials that lost their jobs.

 

[ziad]

Lets hope they dont make any comparison between Essendon and the ANZACs on ANZAC day

so pathetic - they will