Opinion Round 5 Changes vs. Melbourne

[ydraw]

And then played shocking second halves. Im not terribly averse to having taberner in the team, but playing him just because he is tall is a mistake. We looked much better in the second half when mzungu came on for taberner.

I think we looked better in the first half personally. And you can hardly blame Taberner for the fact that we barely touched the ball in the third quarter. If you take a look at the stats, Sydney had something like double or triple the # of possessions we had in the 3rd quarter. That's simply because we got smashed in the middle. There's not a lot the forwards can do about it.

Taberner is never going to have the impact Pavlich has as long as Pavlich is playing simply because our players are always going to look for Pavlich first. I mean, who wouldn't? But I don't think it's a mistake to play him just because he's a tall. That's part of the strategy of picking a team. If you just picked your best 18 players in a vaccuum then you'd lose because you'd have no ruckmen and no key position players.

Every single team in the league plays 2 tall forwards alongside their resting ruckmen. For years, Fremantle was the only team that didn't and for years we were one of the lowest scoring teams in the league. Since we've been playing Taberner our scoring output has improved significantly.

 

[youmewe]

They regularly didn't play Ottens at the start of the season or leave him at home travelling interstate.

Gav, I love your work but I think you'll find your memories of Ottens' career are a little wide of the mark.

Ottens played for Geelong from 2005-11.

In 2005, Ottens played the first 12 games before injury and poor form kept him out for all but 3 of their remaining games.
In 2006 he played in all 22 Geelong games for the season.
In 2007 he played in 22 of Geelong's 25 games. His absences were in one game in Tassie and 2 home games.
In 2008 he missed the first 9 games with an ankle injury before playing the remaining 16 games in a row.
In 2009 he suffered a knee injury in round 2 which kept him out until round 22. He played in Geelong's remaining 4 games that season.
In January 2010 he was injured in a water skiing accident but played in rounds 1 and 2 before withdrawing from their round 3 match in Perth (v Freo). He returned for rounds 4,5 and 6 before a stress fracture kept him sidelined from rounds 7-14. He played in 10 of Geelong's remaining 11 games, only absent from a game at Docklands.
In 2011 he played in 20 of Geelong's 25 games. He missed 5 games between rounds 10 and 20, one was at Carrara, one at the Gabba, one at Docklands and 2 home games. Some of those absences may have been due to player management.

Cheers.

 

[theGav56]

Gav, I love your work but I think you'll find your memories of Ottens' career are a little wide of the mark.

Ottens played for Geelong from 2005-11.

In 2005, Ottens played the first 12 games before injury and poor form kept him out for all but 3 of their remaining games.
In 2006 he played in all 22 Geelong games for the season.
In 2007 he played in 22 of Geelong's 25 games. His absences were in one game in Tassie and 2 home games.
In 2008 he missed the first 9 games with an ankle injury before playing the remaining 16 games in a row.
In 2009 he suffered a knee injury in round 2 which kept him out until round 22. He played in Geelong's remaining 4 games that season.
In January 2010 he was injured in a water skiing accident but played in rounds 1 and 2 before withdrawing from their round 3 match in Perth (v Freo). He returned for rounds 4,5 and 6 before a stress fracture kept him sidelined from rounds 7-14. He played in 10 of Geelong's remaining 11 games, only absent from a game at Docklands.
In 2011 he played in 20 of Geelong's 25 games. He missed 5 games between rounds 10 and 20, one was at Carrara, one at the Gabba, one at Docklands and 2 home games. Some of those absences may have been due to player management.

Cheers.

Yes I may have got the time of season a little wrong, but your analysis clearly shows him being managed. Playing rounds 1, 2, -, 4 and 5 , with 3 being a trip to Perth is an example. sure he was missing with injuries, much as Walters would be if he has a niggle the club wants him to get over.

Anyway, I have started a thread on the main board asking how club's have managed aging players in the past. See what comes up.

 

[salim malik]

I watched him in the warm up on Saturday night and kept an eye on him during the game . He is not moving at the pace he was in the first 2 games .
He is being managed at training and not competing in the match sims ,only doing laps .
What more proof do you need .
RTB maybe saying no "injuries" but general soreness is something that all AFL players deal with .
Silvagni needs a couple of weeks with Peel to get match fitness so the obvious replacement right now is Alex Pearce against Melbourne .
Everyone keeps saying we now have depth so lets see how much Alex has progressed and if he can handle AFL .
We have had our best start of a season ever . Alex needs to know so does RTB and Bondy .
If he has a poor game and gets beaten on the day but shows some good ticker then he will know what level he needs to achieve to play regular games .
Conversely if he beats his opponent he will be fired up to stay in he team or keep himself ready to go again .

If being managed at training ,running laps etc is because the player is sore would mean that Pav,Sandi and Luke are all playing sore .They are all on modified programs ,nothing to do with soreness ,long season and older bodies is the reason..Silvangi has re injured his hammy.

 

[Agenfrida]

No resting at the MCG! We should be trying to play our best footy. This resting and management stuff reeks of arrogance, to which we are not entitled and which can at least wait until the second half of the season.

I agree we shouldn't be resting anyone this week. But I would like to point out that Luke missed the finals in '12. He missed a massive chunk of the year in '13 and only just made it back for the finals. He was out again for the finals last year. Johnson also missed last years finals.

Sandi, Johnson, Pav and Luke are guys we can't afford to be without come finals time.


I get the whole treat the opposition with respect/don't underestimate your opposition, but how is it arrogant to manage Luke et.al by giving them a rest here and there through the season so that they're ready for the business end of the year?

 

[Wizard]

This whole resting crap is very disrespectful to what seems like a pretty ferocious and hungry team in Melbourne.

The whole notion of resting players in round 5 is just ridiculous at this point, why would you rest someone for the sake of resting them at this stage of the season? We have just spent two weeks in Perth with no travel and we think now is the time to give em a break, especially with an 8 day break leading into the game.

Not to mention the MCG factor, clearly the MCG is where we want to be playing our "best" footy later in the year and we only get two looks at the place leading into September. Why on earth would we then leave guys home and not enjoy the oppurtunity to test and tune at the G?

Later in the year there is going to be forced rest periods for guys like Luke, Pav, Sandi, MJ and Mundy anyway. There will be times when their bodies clearly say to the match committee "we need a rest", thats when it will come. Certainly not before an important game in the first quarter of the season.

 

[beetz]

Agree, shouldn't be considering resting any one. Freo should be savoring the opportunity to continue their form with arguably the best 22 ever to suit up in purple and working on running games out.

 

[Agenfrida]

This whole resting crap is very disrespectful to what seems like a pretty ferocious and hungry team in Melbourne.

The whole notion of resting players in round 5 is just ridiculous at this point, why would you rest someone for the sake of resting them at this stage of the season? We have just spent two weeks in Perth with no travel and we think now is the time to give em a break, especially with an 8 day break leading into the game.

Not to mention the MCG factor, clearly the MCG is where we want to be playing our "best" footy later in the year and we only get two looks at the place leading into September. Why on earth would we then leave guys home and not enjoy the oppurtunity to test and tune at the G?

Later in the year there is going to be forced rest periods for guys like Luke, Pav, Sandi, MJ and Mundy anyway. There will be times when their bodies clearly say to the match committee "we need a rest", thats when it will come. Certainly not before an important game in the first quarter of the season.

Personally, I don't think we should be resting anyone given that we barely ever play on the G.

However, the injuries (Luke in particular) that will keep our older guys out at the end of the year are cumulative. It's almost pointless giving them a rest only in the latter part of the year. The damage builds up over the course of the season... plays a game, doesn't quite recover as well as the younger brigade. Plays another game, doesn't recover as well as the younger brigade... Rinse and repeat. It's why throwing in an early season rest could be helpful. Wasn't it Ross who said Luke is playing another year after they discussed his management this year? Wasn't part of that plan for him to play between 12 and 16 regular season games? If he's fit and strong and firing then we need him this week. We don't have anyone else to go to Dawes and Hogan and for that reason I think he plays (that and the fact we never play at the G as previously mentioned).

However, if the 12-16 games remark is true then he's going to be rested early in the season at some point, and rightly so given his history of not being available at the end of the season in recent seasons.

 

[beetz]

Personally, I don't think we should be resting anyone given that we barely ever play on the G.

However, the injuries (Luke in particular) that will keep our older guys out at the end of the year are cumulative. It's almost pointless giving them a rest only in the latter part of the year. The damage builds up over the course of the season... plays a game, doesn't quite recover as well as the younger brigade. Plays another game, doesn't recover as well as the younger brigade... Rinse and repeat. It's why throwing in an early season rest could be helpful. Wasn't it Ross who said Luke is playing another year after they discussed his management this year? Wasn't part of that plan for him to play between 12 and 16 regular season games? If he's fit and strong and firing then we need him this week. We don't have anyone else to go to Dawes and Hogan and for that reason I think he plays (that and the fact we never play at the G as previously mentioned).

However, if the 12-16 games remark is true then he's going to be rested early in the season at some point, and rightly so given his history of not being available at the end of the season in recent seasons.

Yep, but the plan was to assess at the halfway point. Luke has just destroyed Shulz, Clarke, Kennedy and Franklin. He would be absolutely loving his footy at the moment.

 

[Agenfrida]

Yep, but the plan was to assess at the halfway point. Luke has just destroyed Shulz, Clarke, Kennedy and Franklin. He would be absolutely loving his footy at the moment.

Yeah he said that in his last presser, right? But I'm sure (although I can't remember when he actually said it) around the start of the PS that Luke would play between 12 and 16 games in season. That would mean resting him for several games. It's hard to argue with Lukes form, and with SCOS going down we're limited for replacements. Plus, Hogan and Dawes are no joke (capt obvious!).

I just think it's been the same thing each year, calf problems. He's getting (In my very humble and unqualified opinion) them as a result of cumulative stress. I would think giving him an early rest (when we have a viable replacement of course) isn't the worst idea in the world.

 

[Clems Knee]

Personally, I don't think we should be resting anyone given that we barely ever play on the G.

However, the injuries (Luke in particular) that will keep our older guys out at the end of the year are cumulative. It's almost pointless giving them a rest only in the latter part of the year. The damage builds up over the course of the season... plays a game, doesn't quite recover as well as the younger brigade. Plays another game, doesn't recover as well as the younger brigade... Rinse and repeat. It's why throwing in an early season rest could be helpful. Wasn't it Ross who said Luke is playing another year after they discussed his management this year? Wasn't part of that plan for him to play between 12 and 16 regular season games? If he's fit and strong and firing then we need him this week. We don't have anyone else to go to Dawes and Hogan and for that reason I think he plays (that and the fact we never play at the G as previously mentioned).

However, if the 12-16 games remark is true then he's going to be rested early in the season at some point, and rightly so given his history of not being available at the end of the season in recent seasons.

Lyon said they would consider McPharlin's progress at the half way point. He went further: he said if we were travelling very well we could afford to manage McPharlin for the home and away and hopefully avoid an end of season breakdown. If we were travelling poorly we would play the kids ie rest McPharlin anyway, and if we were still in contention but battling for a place in the four, we wouldn't be able to afford to rest him.

So yeh, rest McPharlin if and when we get to the luxury position that Geelong had in 2011. Of course we will never be quite in that luxury position. We have many more genuine away games than they do, and pretty much the same number of home games.

 

[beetz]

Yeah he said that in his last presser, right? But I'm sure (although I can't remember when he actually said it) around the start of the PS that Luke would play between 12 and 16 games in season. That would mean resting him for several games. It's hard to argue with Lukes form, and with SCOS going down we're limited for replacements. Plus, Hogan and Dawes are no joke (capt obvious!).

I just think it's been the same thing each year, calf problems. He's getting (In my very humble and unqualified opinion) them as a result of cumulative stress. I would think giving him an early rest (when we have a viable replacement of course) isn't the worst idea in the world.

I don't recall him saying 12-16 games, that's a lot of missed footy.

I would expect consideration will be made or McPharlin to miss the long haul flights such as Brisbane/GC even Hawks in Tassy.

 

[Jezzitizle]

When dawson comes back I wouldnt mind seeing mcpharlin start a game as sub against weaker opposition. Give him a rest but he is there if things are going poorly. And if they are going well leave him on the bench until the 4th. That way he keeps his edge and routine but wont be anywhere near as knocked about. His game against franklin was quite physical.

 

[StingBitten]

Beginning to feel quite confident with our list at the moment:

1. Our midfield is so hard to break into; we have players performing at the top every week to the point where a guy like Mzungu can crack a game, and it keeps Suban and De Boer fighting hard for their sports. We have Sheridan, Crozier and Duffy ripping it up in the WAFL and literally tearing the door apart to get into the side. Then the next tier down we're looking at Blakely, Grey, Ballard etc who are improving with every week.

2. Our defense has never been so strong - McPharlin at the top of his game, Johnson, Ibbotson, Duffield, Spurr etc... it's hard to see who gets replaced for Dawson and Silvagni to come in unless injury/suspension befalls them. Not to mention A. Pearce and Smith looking like future contenders.

3. Still boasting one of the best ruck stocks in the competition - Sandi and Clarke are beginning to really click. Griffin's still around and Hannath is getting back to Mammoth quality.

It's only our forward line that is the most vulnerable. Walters and Ballantyne are there but both yet to hit form, plus we don't have a like-for-like replacement for either of them. Pav's still a beast, Mayne's improving and Taberner's a work in progress but who else do we have should one of them fall, Apeness?

 

[hoss]

Barlow has been un-Barlow like the last couple of games and I would either give him a break and play him at Peel or if he has a niggle then a week off completely.
What this does is it sends a message to all players that unless performing at close to their best their position is up for grabs.
Also instills the hunger at Peel to show that good performances will be rewarded.
Granted Mick has had only 2 quiet games, if he does get a gig this week and is still down then maybe give him the break the following week against the Dons.

Well I think Mundy had a poor game too despite getting it 20 times. Turnovers, missed marks, handballs to opposition etc. Neale and Walters had poor game games compared to usual. So we pick just one out of a hat to 'send a message'? It's not like they weren't showing commitment or being lazy. Barlow should have a week off if he has a niggling injury, but not to be made an example of.

 

[Agenfrida]

Lyon said they would consider McPharlin's progress at the half way point. He went further: he said if we were travelling very well we could afford to manage McPharlin for the home and away and hopefully avoid an end of season breakdown. If we were travelling poorly we would play the kids ie rest McPharlin anyway, and if we were still in contention but battling for a place in the four, we wouldn't be able to afford to rest him.

So yeh, rest McPharlin if and when we get to the luxury position that Geelong had in 2011. Of course we will never be quite in that luxury position. We have many more genuine away games than they do, and pretty much the same number of home games.

I don't recall him saying 12-16 games, that's a lot of missed footy.

I would expect consideration will be made or McPharlin to miss the long haul flights such as Brisbane/GC even Hawks in Tassy.

TBH, I can't recall exactly when/where I heard that. But that figure is rattling round in my brain. It's possible that some 'journo' threw that figure up (12-16 games) and somehow, I'm imagining Ross said that. I did a quick search via google news to try and find it, but it seems you're both right. The halfway mark is what comes up again and again.

 

[go_the_dockers]

This whole resting crap is very disrespectful to what seems like a pretty ferocious and hungry team in Melbourne.

The whole notion of resting players in round 5 is just ridiculous at this point, why would you rest someone for the sake of resting them at this stage of the season? We have just spent two weeks in Perth with no travel and we think now is the time to give em a break, especially with an 8 day break leading into the game.

Not to mention the MCG factor, clearly the MCG is where we want to be playing our "best" footy later in the year and we only get two looks at the place leading into September. Why on earth would we then leave guys home and not enjoy the oppurtunity to test and tune at the G?

Later in the year there is going to be forced rest periods for guys like Luke, Pav, Sandi, MJ and Mundy anyway. There will be times when their bodies clearly say to the match committee "we need a rest", thats when it will come. Certainly not before an important game in the first quarter of the season.

Can we give sore players a week off should they be sore this week, or in round 20 but I would prefer to rest 10 players over 10 weeks than 10 players in 1 week.

I just don't want to go into finals with McPharlin, Pav and Johnson injured again. It has hurt us so much the last few years, and I am sure a number of other players were carrying general soreness and would have benefited from a rest. We have Crozier, Sheridan, Ballas, Duffy, A Pearce and co ready to come in now, plus Dawson 2-3 weeks away.

 

[_007_]

Honestly, I'd like to drop Walters for his selfish displays and poor form so far this season. Specifically, I am talking about silly free kicks, diving and hungry shots at goal. Obviously he is a good player, but I think we might benefit from reminding him that no one is above the team.

It would be Ballantyne in for Walters and no other change.

 

[StingBitten]

Well I think Mundy had a poor game too despite getting it 20 times. Turnovers, missed marks, handballs to opposition etc. Neale and Walters had poor game games compared to usual. So we pick just one out of a hat to 'send a message'? It's not like they weren't showing commitment or being lazy. Barlow should have a week off if he has a niggling injury, but not to be made an example of.

A lot of times in the third quarter he fizzed and fuzzled with it before turning over to Sydney... when he's on song he's amazing but couldn't quite seem to control it. Mind you Fyfe had two guys pulling him to China and Barlow/Neale must have been sitting somewhere behind goals so it was a single-handed effort.

 

[Fred Ziffel]

Honestly, I'd like to drop Walters for his selfish displays and poor form so far this season. Specifically, I am talking about silly free kicks, diving and hungry shots at goal. Obviously he is a good player, but I think we might benefit from reminding him that no one is above the team.

It would be Ballantyne in for Walters and no other change.

Fair dinkum.

 

[_007_]

The fairest of.

 

[democritus]

Honestly, I'd like to drop Walters for his selfish displays and poor form so far this season. Specifically, I am talking about silly free kicks, diving and hungry shots at goal. Obviously he is a good player, but I think we might benefit from reminding him that no one is above the team.

It would be Ballantyne in for Walters and no other change.

I haven't been blown away by Sonny this season, but I think dropping him now would be short-sighted. I've always felt that Walters and Ballas perform better in tandem. Also, as others have duly pointed out, it's a rare opportunity to play at the MCG. At his best, Son Son is a match winner. You need those guys in finals.

No doubt, he should be told to pull his head in and let his football do the talking though. I hate seeing a fantastic player lower his colours.

 

[Big Animal]

Walters has been played up the ground more this year and hasn't looked comfortable doing it yet. If i had to choose, i would push him back to the pocket over dropping him.

 

[beetz]

What is Barlow's role these days? High half forward, less time in the middle?

 

[Unique Name]

The point about playing at the MCG is probably the best argument against trialing some of our depth.

Too me it's less about resting players and more about getting some game time into our depth players. It's just you can't have one without the other if there are no injuries.

Saying we're being disrespectful is ridiculous. If we were playing Hurley instead of Macca then yes. But most of us are talking about getting game time into the likes of Sheridan, Crozier, Duffy, Blakely. We're talking about 1 player, not sending the whole Peel side over.