List Mgmt. 2014 Draft + DFA Talk Part II
- Thread starter _RT_
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- Aug 8, 2009
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Watching De Goey highlight reel I wasn't frothing, because every thing I read seemed to be oppposite to what I saw. If he is a solid midfielder however with skill and x-factor then you can't really miss with those types. Would prefer that to another HBF/HFF. We need someone who can just about step in straight away.
- Mar 1, 2010
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Agree with that. Particularly when you consider Deledio and Martin as primarily forwards and outside types. This is further exemplified if you like a prospect like Drummond later who is as ready made as any but still young with a few tools but only 181cm. I am interested as to why you picked him in the phantom draft on the RFC board at 33 only to select him at 52 in a later draft wish list you posted later. Most seem to have Drummond between 35 and 50 on the phantoms so unless they are wrong doubtful he will get to 52.
Anyway your reasoning is part of the reason I like Cockatoo. That is because even if he doesn't reach potential as an inside mid, he could still be effective as a winger like a taller stronger marking B Hill or even up forward including FF with his leap and pace not to mention his experience in defence. Cockatoo's skillset and versatility IMO negates any risk some of his skill may not reach elite levels we hope he can achieve therefore making him a safer prospect despite the lack of relative exposed form against top level opposition. The combine suggests he has the tools to compete well at many levels.
For example he could rotate with Dusty between FF, HF and the wing allowing JR to roam and drift back to the square behind FF leads of others causing match up issues. If he turns into a Judd with a better mark that simply would be a bonus!
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utensil looks really good in that highlight package and seems to be exactly what we are looking for tough quick and can break the game open. His kicking looks good but could need a little work for me it's a no brainer. Be happy to take him at 12 everyday
- Oct 3, 2012
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Why did it look like it was just because a lack of match time? Because you like him so much you need to find an excuse? Kicking in the combine and in a match is completely different. And if you say Francis will be considered incompetent if doesn't pick him at 12, then you ARE overrating him. That means yout think he is the best player at 12 by miles, when really he is closer to pick 30 than pick 12.
The way i see it is that we need mids and more mids with posibly a Rookie Ruck & Kpd in the rookie draft (project perhaps)
The mids that i see as being worthy 1st rounders in order are
Patracca
Brayshaw
Laverde
Pickett
Ahern
Weller/Cockatoo (cockatoo i rate but most might not as im rateing him on what i believe he will become)
Duggan/De Goey
Thats 9 mids that are worth our 1st round selection #12 , Then you add in the KPP that are sure to be taken before our selection
McCartin
Wright
Lever
Moore
And possibly 1 of Durdin/Lamb/Goddard if a team is desperate for a KPP
I have no doubt we will get a quality player with #12 its just picking out which will be the GUN -
Certainly wont be Ellis
The mids that i see as being worthy 1st rounders in order are
Patracca
Brayshaw
Laverde
Pickett
Ahern
Weller/Cockatoo (cockatoo i rate but most might not as im rateing him on what i believe he will become)
Duggan/De Goey
Thats 9 mids that are worth our 1st round selection #12 , Then you add in the KPP that are sure to be taken before our selection
McCartin
Wright
Lever
Moore
And possibly 1 of Durdin/Lamb/Goddard if a team is desperate for a KPP
I have no doubt we will get a quality player with #12 its just picking out which will be the GUN -
Certainly wont be Ellis
Agree with that. Though I don't mind Ellis.The way i see it is that we need mids and more mids with posibly a Rookie Ruck & Kpd in the rookie draft (project perhaps)
The mids that i see as being worthy 1st rounders in order are
Patracca
Brayshaw
Laverde
Pickett
Ahern
Weller/Cockatoo (cockatoo i rate but most might not as im rateing him on what i believe he will become)
Duggan/De Goey
Thats 9 mids that are worth our 1st round selection #12 , Then you add in the KPP that are sure to be taken before our selection
McCartin
Wright
Lever
Moore
And possibly 1 of Durdin/Lamb/Goddard if a team is desperate for a KPP
I have no doubt we will get a quality player with #12 its just picking out which will be the GUN -
Certainly wont be Ellis
Definitely need predominantly mids.
Wouldn't mind a small forward somewhere with pace. If they aren't quick don't bother, we have Lloyd and McDonough for that.
We definitely need another KPD for depth. A few too many injury prone guys and Chaplin is getting older so need to plan for the future. I guess that's where Hartley comes into play as a rookie KPD.
I think if we take a ruck they need to be reasonably ready made. We have an 18yo ruck. Can't really carry 2 on the list IMO.
You and I usually dont disagree on many things tigs but on this occasion regarding Ellis we do
I found a post from a person i respect as a good talent watcher from another site (Bullus_hit)
A few things to consider here, first WA fielded a very weak team this year, most players did exceedingly well against them, but even in that match Ellis didn't really take the game by the scruff of the neck like some of the other first round candidates. His kicking is generally neat but is often lateral or short, not to mention he often tries to be too clever and turns the ball over as a result.
Just going over his stats at TAC level, his KE was 49%, way too low for a player who has a reputation for elite disposal. For someone hailed as a strong mark, he didn't take one contested mark for the season, and his performance in the carnival was ok but not outstanding. He averaged 2 clearances a match, to put that into perspective, Blakely averaged 7.
There is absolutely nothing to suggest Ellis is worth pick 12, I would rather roll the dice on Cockatoo if all the others are off the board.
Pretty much reinforces my view of Ellis
You can say the same about Duggan and De Goey
The clips I've seen of them don't set the world on fire...shanks, poor decision making
It's pick 12... Not pick 1
How on earth do you figure? They've both produced at a consistently high standard for much longer than the utensil.
Go off the clips I've seen...I'm not convinced of the 'class' you speak of...
They are good players I'll give you that
Not to mention there wasn't a single target missed in Duggan's vision.
I reckon you're talking about the clips on YouTube put together by Luke McAllister right? They're clips of every involvement those two had during the televised Champs matches (which happened to be probably Duggan's worst for the year), not actual highlight packages in the traditional sense. Go to the AFL website and look up the highlight packages there. They're far more impressive.
In the kids defence he's had leg injuries throughout the year. Last year he went at 71%. Haven't got the stats for this year but I'd imagine he'd be a fair bit higher than 49% based on the early part of the year.You and I usually dont disagree on many things tigs but on this occasion regarding Ellis we do
I found a post from a person i respect as a good talent watcher from another site (Bullus_hit)
A few things to consider here, first WA fielded a very weak team this year, most players did exceedingly well against them, but even in that match Ellis didn't really take the game by the scruff of the neck like some of the other first round candidates. His kicking is generally neat but is often lateral or short, not to mention he often tries to be too clever and turns the ball over as a result.
Just going over his stats at TAC level, his KE was 49%, way too low for a player who has a reputation for elite disposal. For someone hailed as a strong mark, he didn't take one contested mark for the season, and his performance in the carnival was ok but not outstanding. He averaged 2 clearances a match, to put that into perspective, Blakely averaged 7.
There is absolutely nothing to suggest Ellis is worth pick 12, I would rather roll the dice on Cockatoo if all the others are off the board.
Pretty much reinforces my view of Ellis
He's not my favourite option for the pick but he is a good player. Duggan or Weller if he slides for me.
I don't particularly want him but I'd be happy enough with him. I think there's going to be at least 2 if not 3 or 4 I rate higher available at our pick. I think it's pretty even that regardless who FJ picks, we are going to get a good player and it's not the end of the world.In all honesty tigs, You might get your wish with Ellis coming to the tigers - But with #33
Yep...as far as I can see it's still Liam Duggan
Anyways.- I've seen the other clips...and..he is a good player, but you've got to look at both good and bad...and unlike you, I'd rather take a risk with Cockatoo
We all know that FJ won't pick Cockatto come draft day lets face it...so Duggan, DeGoey Menadue or 'whoever falls' will be it
GWS you reckon? They could use his type.
_RT_
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The other thing that the TAC stats don't show is the amount of contested ball won by the players. It's possible that Ellis' numbers have failed as he has been winning more contested ball and not having that time and space to hit targets.
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time to return the traditional Richmond yellow
I want a player at pick 12 that will slot straight into our best 22 like Ellis and Vlad did. I don't want another Lennon
I can't wait anymore Surely any of these buttheads are an upgrade on Grigge
I can't wait anymore
Surely any of these buttheads are an upgrade on Grigge
Of course video clips that only show the good passages of play will look more impressive, that's certainly no way to judge a player though.
No s**t, I'm saying the ones on YouTube are similarly biased in the opposite direction for Duggan especially because the clip was taken from probably his worst games for the year.
Our first pick is most likely not ready made. But Lennon will be ready so that makes up for it.I want a player at pick 12 that will slot straight into our best 22 like Ellis and Vlad did. I don't want another Lennon
I can't wait anymore
Just hope that everyone who wants to reach for Cockatoo won't complain that we reach for someone else because it's ok to reach for someone.
Personally I think we'd be playing with fire because I don't think he's in the best 12 players in the draft.
I'm not sure where this "elite kick" thing has come from? I'd say he's around Conca level.
People need to remember he played an exhibition game against kids a year younger and was really the only one with anything to prove.
If we are going to use the fact he only turned 18 a few days ago well Ellis is only 2 weeks older and Duggan is still 17. So why not them?
Personally I don't mind Cockatoo and wouldn't be disappointed with him at 12 but he isn't the best player available at that pick and he's a massive massive risk that a lot of the same people will be calling for sackings if we take him and the risk backfires.
Personally hoping for Weller, Duggan, Ellis, De Goey, Menadue, Cockatoo in order.
mmm the cocky eh, well he cant kick, and that's a pretty big issue.
- Apr 26, 2012
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I reckon a Weller or Duggan could play decent footy on a half back flank releasing vlas into the middle.
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