List Mgmt. 2014 Draft + DFA Talk Part II

[Robbo92]

You don't know who the clubs rate you only know what the media is telling you.

But the media still have a fair idea, while not 100%. I'm pretty certain they've got a better idea of how highly clubs rate certain players. It's no coincidence that Ellis' name hasn't been thrown about for any pick higher than ours by anyone.

 

[BeefTaco]

How do you know clubs rate these supposive "sliders" higher than Ellis? I mean after all they aren't picking them for a reason. Most of them are seen as "sliders" because either the media or BigFooty have talked them up and overrated them.

Using Laverde as an example he was rated a 25-40 prospect just a few months ago. Then he was linked to Collingwoods pick 5 and all of a sudden he's seen as a slider when they look like they won't take him.

Fair enough. I'm not really that informed just going from what I've seen and read on the internet, but Ellis just seems like an average type, not really a hard inside or a flashy outside player. Is he just gonna end up being a jack of all master of none?

 

[Calcium Man]

But the media still have a fair idea, while not 100%. I'm pretty certain they've got a better idea of how highly clubs rate certain players. It's no coincidence that Ellis' name hasn't been thrown about for any pick higher than ours by anyone.

Maybe you should read you're own signature and then watch Ellis play before you start judging on whether another club above us rates him (PS they do but they have guys higher one their list available).

 

[Toadvine]

Its because FJ is a terrible pick of first round talent but other clubs like Melbourne (Scully, Morton, Watts ect...) or Saint Kilda (Cripps, Tom Lee ect...) or GWS (Plowman, O Rourke ect...) have amazing eyes for talent.

Geelong: Billie Smedts and Mitch Brown

 

[BeefTaco]

Maybe you should read you're own signature and then watch Ellis play before you start judging on whether another club above us rates him (PS they do but they have guys higher one their list available).

How does watching him play inform us better on how another club rates him?

 

[tigs2010]

But the media still have a fair idea, while not 100%. I'm pretty certain they've got a better idea of how highly clubs rate certain players. It's no coincidence that Ellis' name hasn't been thrown about for any pick higher than ours by anyone.

The clubs tell them zilch. Info comes from player managers.

Fair enough. I'm not really that informed just going from what I've seen and read on the internet, but Ellis just seems like an average type, not really a hard inside or a flashy outside player. Is he just gonna end up being a jack of all master of none?

I actually think he's very different to how he's portrayed on here. He's not really a "safe" pick at all. He's silky and has big upside. He's very light though at this stage which could either add to his upside or he could bust if he can't bulk up.

Fwiw the coach of him and Laverde rates Ellis the better prospect. Better than Ahern too. Can't say I agree but it's hard to dispute the guy who has seen them side by sued for years.

 

[Robbo92]

Maybe you should read you're own signature and then watch Ellis play before you start judging on whether another club above us rates him (PS they do but they have guys higher one their list available).

Yeah but that's the point isn't it? Why don't we have anyone higher on our list? And surely there would be at least one available at our pick.

I'm not necessarily against drafting him I just find it odd that on the face of it there's absolutely no competition for him around our pick, which says to me that it's a 'reach'. Having said that, I'm only going by the information I see through this site and media etc and my perception is derived from these outlets, so it's probably influenced by all the whingers that are dead set against him. I'll get behind whoever we draft anyway

 

[tigs2010]

Yeah but that's the point isn't it? Why don't we have anyone higher on our list? And surely there would be at least one available at our pick.

I'm not necessarily against drafting him I just find it odd that on the face of it there's absolutely no competition for him around our pick, which says to me that it's a 'reach'. Having said that, I'm only going by the information I see through this site and media etc and my perception is derived from these outlets, so it's probably influenced by all the whingers that are dead set against him. I'll get behind whoever we draft anyway

We do have guys higher on our list. Unfortunately those clubs who also do are picking before us.

 

[BeefTaco]

The clubs tell them zilch. Info comes from player managers.


I actually think he's very different to how he's portrayed on here. He's not really a "safe" pick at all. He's silky and has big upside. He's very light though at this stage which could either add to his upside or he could bust if he can't bulk up.

Fwiw the coach of him and Laverde rates Ellis the better prospect. Better than Ahern too. Can't say I agree but it's hard to dispute the guy who has seen them side by sued for years.

What is his upside? Could he turn himself into a solid inside mid? Or a clean outside?

 

[tigs2010]

What is his upside? Could he turn himself into a solid inside mid? Or a clean outside?

I think he will be more inside than outside once (if) he bulks up. Whilst not quick he has that ability to make it look like everyone else is in slow motion around him similar to a Pendles I guess (not that level though) and once he recovers from injury should return to his elite kicking ability. He is also pretty versatile and can play anywhere. I also like that he's got a defensive side to his game which a lot of top juniors don't have.

The query on him will be does his injury linger and can he put on 10 kilos without slowing him down too much. He also drifts in and out of games a bit and not sure if it's because he was injured or that's just the way he is.

 

[Robbo92]

We do have guys higher on our list. Unfortunately those clubs who also do are picking before us.

What I'm asking though, is what makes him so high on our list? And not others.
It's a question that essentially doesn't have an answer though because we have no clue what recruiters actually think and are just going off what we're fed.

As I said I'm more than happy to back us in on this one. Just thought the question should be raised. Hope he has a long career in the Yellow & Black.

 

[tigs2010]

What I'm asking though, is what makes him so high on our list? And not others.
It's a question that essentially doesn't have an answer though because we have no clue what recruiters actually think and are just going off what we're fed.

As I said I'm more than happy to back us in on this one. Just thought the question should be raised. Hope he has a long career in the Yellow & Black.

I think it all comes down to who fits best into your club culture and game plan at the end of the day. Each club has different things they look for.

I think for us with our emphasis on kicking skills, winning own ball and competitiveness, Ellis ticks all the boxes. Looking at Adelaide and North they seem to look at the same things so it's no surprise they're looking at him too.

Gold Coast seem to focus more on speed and running ability.

Collingwood seem to focus on drafting the shortest bloke possible

 

[BeefTaco]

I think he will be more inside than outside once (if) he bulks up. Whilst not quick he has that ability to make it look like everyone else is in slow motion around him similar to a Pendles I guess (not that level though) and once he recovers from injury should return to his elite kicking ability. He is also pretty versatile and can play anywhere. I also like that he's got a defensive side to his game which a lot of top juniors don't have.

The query on him will be does his injury linger and can he put on 10 kilos without slowing him down too much. He also drifts in and out of games a bit and not sure if it's because he was injured or that's just the way he is.

It was a stress fracture wasn't it? On his foot? Pretty sure I have one right now and a lot of my friends have had them. They suck and you have to be careful then after not to overwork your feet. The only real remedy is rest as well. But if he deals with it well and waits till it's fully healed before he starts again it should be fine.
I trust the club to make the best decision possible and we do have a much better track record than other clubs with our first picks. I just personally don't see what they see in him from the limited vision I've had. And just seems to me that he doesn't fill the need of either things we need in an inside mid or speed. Hope fj is right and we get steal.

 

[M0557]

I think he will be more inside than outside once (if) he bulks up. Whilst not quick he has that ability to make it look like everyone else is in slow motion around him similar to a Pendles I guess (not that level though) and once he recovers from injury should return to his elite kicking ability. He is also pretty versatile and can play anywhere. I also like that he's got a defensive side to his game which a lot of top juniors don't have.

The query on him will be does his injury linger and can he put on 10 kilos without slowing him down too much. He also drifts in and out of games a bit and not sure if it's because he was injured or that's just the way he is.

I trust the club to make the best decision for our the team, but it is worrying he has an issue with his foot, although he seems to have overcome.

Inside mid is a must, but pace is something glaringly obvious we lack. A first round pick, selected correctly, could net us both a classy skilled mid with the injection of pace. We have read that we need pace, pace and pace. And yes, I would agree that rounds 2,3,4 onwards we should be focusing on pace, but they may fall short of the silky skills a guy available at pick 12 might..... This is the reason I have always thought that Weller was the ideal player for us at 12. Duggan should be off the table, but there may be some other talent on the board which gives us a big decision.

I hope tonight there is a late change within picks 4-11, which then has us requesting extra time as we make a last minute in depth discussion on who we take.

I'm pretty excited about our prospects for Rounds 2,3 and 4 though, we should be able to nab a few gems there.....

 

[Calcium Man]

What I'm asking though, is what makes him so high on our list? And not others.
It's a question that essentially doesn't have an answer though because we have no clue what recruiters actually think and are just going off what we're fed.

As I said I'm more than happy to back us in on this one. Just thought the question should be raised. Hope he has a long career in the Yellow & Black.

Don't forget every team could rate him at 6 or 9 or where ever but if a guy is higher on their list they will take that player ahead of Ellis. All the clubs ahead of us have guys who are higher but then don't rate others who are being picked. De Goey for example is said to polarise opinions of recruiters, those that like him rate him highly the rest see him as an end of 1st rounder. Lavarde is similar. The only team that is considering Goddard in the top 10 is GWS, and same with Marchbank ect...

 

[tigs2010]

It was a stress fracture wasn't it? On his foot? Pretty sure I have one right now and a lot of my friends have had them. They suck and you have to be careful then after not to overwork your feet. The only real remedy is rest as well. But if he deals with it well and waits till it's fully healed before he starts again it should be fine.
I trust the club to make the best decision possible and we do have a much better track record than other clubs with our first picks. I just personally don't see what they see in him from the limited vision I've had. And just seems to me that he doesn't fill the need of either things we need in an inside mid or speed. Hope fj is right and we get steal.

Yeah stress fracture that he kept playing with. I'd imagine we've done a fair bit of due diligence on him in the event we pick him. We will need to be patient with him though. I'm not expecting him to play AFL next year.

He will definitely be the one they look to fill an inside mid hole with. Hopefully we can get some pace with the later picks. Sounds like we have our eye on some. Just a matter of them getting to our pick.

Personally like Brett Anderson's draft where Menadue is available at our 2nd pick. Would be a massive get.

 

[Unknown Identity]

Happy Draft Day Tiger Fans..

If Peter Wright was still at your pick would you be keen on taking him.
Griffiths has never really come on as a forward, Vickery has been pretty disappointing.

Wright hits the scoreboard, has pace for his size and his ruck work is very good. Just seems like a massive upgrade, a Riewoldt/Wright combo would be pretty handy.

Garlett also would be a solid pick for you and already has elite endurance and his speed would be a huge plus.

Anyways Best of Luck, hope you select a 200+ game player!

 

[tigs2010]

I trust the club to make the best decision for our the team, but it is worrying he has an issue with his foot, although he seems to have overcome.

Inside mid is a must, but pace is something glaringly obvious we lack. A first round pick, selected correctly, could net us both a classy skilled mid with the injection of pace. We have read that we need pace, pace and pace. And yes, I would agree that rounds 2,3,4 onwards we should be focusing on pace, but they may fall short of the silky skills a guy available at pick 12 might..... This is the reason I have always thought that Weller was the ideal player for us at 12. Duggan should be off the table, but there may be some other talent on the board which gives us a big decision.

I hope tonight there is a late change within picks 4-11, which then has us requesting extra time as we make a last minute in depth discussion on who we take.

I'm pretty excited about our prospects for Rounds 2,3 and 4 though, we should be able to nab a few gems there.....

I agree on Weller. Ahern is the other. I have them at 7 & 8. As I wrote above it sounds like Menadue could fall in our laps at 33.

Maybe GWS take Marchbank and Goddard at 6 & 7.

 

[tigs2010]

Happy Draft Day Tiger Fans..

If Peter Wright was still at your pick would you be keen on taking him.
Griffiths has never really come on as a forward, Vickery has been pretty disappointing.

Wright hits the scoreboard, has pace for his size and his ruck work is very good. Just seems like a massive upgrade, a Riewoldt/Wright combo would be pretty handy.

Garlett also would be a solid pick for you and already has elite endurance and his speed would be a huge plus.

Anyways Best of Luck, hope you select a 200+ game player!

I'd take him as a ruck. Don't think he's getting out of the top 10 though.

 

[TigerTime88]

Ellis reminds me of Pendlebury type game style and will be a good get.

However our obvious need is pace and hence why I want us to get Weller. If we don't take him and he slips to one of my 3 most hated teams being North, Essendon or Carlton I will spew.

 

[Tomnat Tigers]

My Prediction

1. St.Kilda – Patrick McCartin
2. Melbourne – Christian Petracca
3. Melbourne – Angus Brayshaw
4. GWS – Jarrod Pickett
5. Collingwood – Jordan DeGoey
6. GWS – Hugh Goddard
7. GWS - Paul Ahern
8. Gold Coast – Jayden Laverde
9. Collingwood - Darcy Moore (F/S)
10. Geelong – Peter Wright
11. West Coast - Liam Duggan
12. Richmond – Corey Ellis
13. Fremantle – Sam Durdin
14. Adelaide – Jake Lever
15.Gold Coast – Kyle Langford
16. North Melbourne – Nakia Cockatoo
17. Essendon – Lachie Weller
18. Sydney – Isaac Heeney (Academy)
19. Carlton – Caleb Marchbank
20. Essendon – Tom Lamb
21. St.Kilda – Alex Neal-Bullen

22. St.Kilda - Jarrod Gartlett
23. GWS - Connor Menadue
24. GWS - Jack Steele (Academy)
25. North Melbourne - Oscar McDonald
26. Western Bulldogs - Ed Vickers-Willis
27. Western Bulldogs - Dan Mckenzie
28. Carlton - Reece Mckenzie?
29. Gold Coast - Harrison Wigg
30. Collingwood - Damian Cavka
31. Hawthorn - Brayden Maynard?
32. West Coast - Mitch Mcgovern
33. Richmond - Connor Blakely/Touk Miller

Is it possible?

 

[Calcium Man]

I'd take him as a ruck. Don't think he's getting out of the top 10 though.

Well i'd take him as a forward and make Vickery Ruck.

 

[Calcium Man]

I agree on Weller. Ahern is the other. I have them at 7 & 8. As I wrote above it sounds like Menadue could fall in our laps at 33.

Maybe GWS take Marchbank and Goddard at 6 & 7.

Please GWS take 2 KPD at 6 & 7

 

[tigs2010]

22. St.Kilda - Jarrod Gartlett
23. GWS - Connor Menadue
24. GWS - Jack Steele (Academy)
25. North Melbourne - Oscar McDonald
26. Western Bulldogs - Ed Vickers-Willis
27. Western Bulldogs - Dan Mckenzie
28. Carlton - Reece Mckenzie?
29. Gold Coast - Harrison Wigg
30. Collingwood - Damian Cavka
31. Hawthorn - Brayden Maynard?
32. West Coast - Mitch Mcgovern
33. Richmond - Connor Blakely/Touk Miller

Is it possible?

H/S article says WC take Miller if he's there. North take Dan mcKenzie if there it seems too.

 

[TigerTime88]

22. St.Kilda - Jarrod Gartlett
23. GWS - Connor Menadue
24. GWS - Jack Steele (Academy)
25. North Melbourne - Oscar McDonald
26. Western Bulldogs - Ed Vickers-Willis
27. Western Bulldogs - Dan Mckenzie
28. Carlton - Reece Mckenzie?
29. Gold Coast - Harrison Wigg
30. Collingwood - Damian Cavka
31. Hawthorn - Brayden Maynard?
32. West Coast - Mitch Mcgovern
33. Richmond - Connor Blakely/Touk Miller

Is it possible?

I think it is very possible Blakey will be there at 33. Seems clubs want skills and height early and let these legit footballers slip through.

Also think Duggan will be our man!