List Mgmt. 2015 LIST Discussion - trades, free agency etc

[raymagoo]

Everybody took someone ahead of Darling. It's not like he was taken the pick after ours.

Was disgusting on the weekend when it counted!

 

[no passengers]

bar roughy who plays more as a utility, all these players were traded in after the Hawks developed their talented core group of Cyril, hodge, Mitchell, Lewis, bruest, shiels, Burgoyne and birchall.

Burgoyne came from port so not part of their initial core from the draft

 

[raymagoo]

It very well could happen but who really knows for sure? Maybe clubs think he is worth the risk with plenty of football ahead of him even if he does cop 2 years

I think he is for sure. One of the best defenders in the game

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Was disgusting on the weekend when it counted!

Really struggled against the Hawks in R19 and the QF as well. They have his measure.

 

[SABlue]

Yep 2001 was the start of them trading hard, that year they decided on a rebuild, and traded a heap of best 22 players for multiple picks, they had 1,16,20,32,36, 48 and they actually got Hodge with yet another priority pick, they did well picking Mitchell at 36 (a pick they traded for), and Mitchell and Hodge were the only picks they got right that year.

Then in 2004 they got another priority pick which got them Roughead, and Buddy with their 1st (pick 5), but they really wanted to load up in that draft, and particularly wanted Lewis, so they traded Thompson (who was then a best 22 star forward) for 10 and 26, they then traded 10 and other picks to Collingwood for 7 and so got Lewis.

So without priority picks they would not have Hodge or Roughead (both clear number one in their Draft), and without aggressively trading they would not have Mitchell or Lewis. It was Gary Buckenara who introduced this trading philosophy in 2001 and whether trading picks for players or players for picks they have used that philosophy ever since.

So it seems that there is no shame in us asking for priority picks (that's how the hawks got a leg up) and depending on how good we consider the draft year to be, we should either trade players and load up on picks or trade picks and load up on players. At least that's how the Hawks have been doing it for 15 years.

Another interesting tidbit, as good as the Hawks have been in rebuilding they also only have about a 50% hit rate in the draft. Something I would have sworn was wrong until I decided to look it up.

Regards

I was surprised how many selections they missed as well. But they went down that path and had a group around the same age that today makes up the core. And in those years they missed they went out and traded down track to fill those spots. Eg Burgoyne, Gibson etc.
We are in that same spot now trading current players to increase our draft picks.
I have thought for a while that we started a rebuild a little while ago now whilst the media say we are starting one now. But if you look over the last 2-3 years we haven't traded picks unless it is for a kid. Only Daisy acquisition has bucked that trend when we should of really lost Betts and got his compo instead of getting Daisy and negating our compo.
Our core group has already began with these players showing me that they are part of our next core group.
2011 Buckley
2012 Menzel & Graham
2013 Cripps & docherty
2014 boekhurst & Jaksch
2015 Weitering & ......
I may have missed a couple but it's on it's way. You can debate who is going to be a star but I think we can confidently say menzel & Cripps will be. That's why over the next couple of years we need to keep our top picks because that's where you stand a better chance of getting the top line talent.

 

[SABlue]

I don't think we need to or should follow hawthorn step for step.

But if I am to use one reference from hawthorns recruiting is that they have not picked a key defender in the first round of the draft.

But if the best available at the time was they would of. And whose to say that Weitering won't end up a forward. Don't look at him as a defender look at him as key position.

 

[FoeverBlues]

Geelong - Get Dangerfield and Hendo for pick 9 and next year first rounder
Crows - Get Pick 9 and Cats next year first rounder for pick 14 and Dangerfield
Blues - Get pick 14 for Hendo

Fair trade for all

Blues on trade pick 14 for GWS fantastic 4

 

[LordLucifer]

Geelong - Get Dangerfield and Hendo for pick 9 and next year first rounder
Crows - Get Pick 9 and Cats next year first rounder for pick 14 and Dangerfield
Blues - Get pick 14 for Hendo

Fair trade for all

Blues on trade pick 14 for GWS fantastic 4

I highly doubt the Crows would be offloading #14.

I also doubt that we would be on-trading #14 if we were to get it.

 

[FoeverBlues]

I highly doubt the Crows would be offloading #14.

I also doubt that we would be on-trading #14 if we were to get it.

Not even for "Tomlinson Plowman Phillips Lamb" ?

 

[LordLucifer]

not even for "Tomlinson Plowman Phillips Lamb" ??

I'm a little sceptical about how realistic the 4-for-1 deal is so 'yes'.

If we trade out some players (eg. Bell) and end up with a handful of second-rounders I reckon we might use them instead.

I just can't see SOS giving up any first-rounders inside the Top 15, he is going to try and stockpile as many as he can.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Trade radio saying Carlton are meeting with Carlisle's management again today. This would seem to be our best offer. If not enough, he goes to Saints. If we are in the ball park, probably goes to us.

 

[My name geoff]

But if the best available at the time was they would of. And whose to say that Weitering won't end up a forward. Don't look at him as a defender look at him as key position.

Yep that's a good point, Weitering may have the talent to be a utility type like Roughead. Would definitely increase his pick 1 credentials.

There is obviously a lot to weigh up for a list manager. Look at Collingwood for example, they are going the different way again and trading multiple picks for single players. This has its merits also, but if you look at their list, it will take 3 years minimum with their current list + Treloar to have 15 top 150 players like the hawks.

This is allowing the likes of Crisp, Adams, Marsh, Ramsay, Broomhead, Moore, Scharenberg, Grundy, De Goey and Maynard to enter that level. Obviously some of those players wont reach that level and in 3 years Pendlebury, Varcoe, Cloke and brown will be 30+

This means its likely that Collingwood will look trade picks for players in the coming years rather than draft youth who wont be ready in time for Collingwood to have a genuine crack. If they don't they will risk being in perpetual rebuild without much success.

If I were Collingwood's list manager I would rather trade my first pick and whatever else they use for treloar and try to get 2 good players (Aish and Redden) more so than 2 picks for 1 player.

 

[BluesRule]

Geelong - Get Dangerfield and Hendo for pick 9 and next year first rounder
Crows - Get Pick 9 and Cats next year first rounder for pick 14 and Dangerfield
Blues - Get pick 14 for Hendo

Fair trade for all

Blues on trade pick 14 for GWS fantastic 4

Not sure AFL can allow a trade and give compo.

Geelong - Get Dangerfield
Adelaide - Get pick #14


Geelong - Get Pick 14, player XXX
Crows - Get Pick 9 and next years first rounder

Geelong - Get Hendo
Blues - Get pick 14

Will not be easy for Geelong as player XXX will need to look like a fair deal.

 

[Crippa#9]

Andy McKay on Trade radio (listen via AFL website) at 10.45

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Jed Adcock wants to coach. Feels a club could take him for a year or two and develop his coaching from within. I do think he has a bit to offer. Maybe not for us given our situation but I hope he gets picked up.

Lions had a contract in front of him mid year but pulled it away, maybe to save money for Aish. Tough on a former captain I reckon.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

Jed Adcock wants to coach. Feels a club could take him for a year or two and develop his coaching from within. I do think he has a bit to offer. Maybe not for us given our situation but I hope he gets picked up.

Lions had a contract in front of him mid year but pulled it away, maybe to save money for Aish. Tough on a former captain I reckon.

The Lions are baffling. Did you see The Chosen Ones about the Captains the other day? Their Captain comes across like a moron.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I see McKay is still acting as our trade spokesperson. I would love to hear from SOS though. Should I be impressed that SOS is the strong silent type because he gets to maintain his poker face or should I be worried that McKay still has a strong say in this and tends to tip his hand too much?

 

[Blue and Silver]

Trade Radio has horrible buffering.

Anyone listening?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

The Lions are baffling. Did you see The Chosen Ones about the Captains the other day? Their Captain comes across like a moron.

Didn't see it but I did hear that assessment.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Trade Radio has horrible buffering.

Anyone listening?

Just buffered a little then but has been good for me this morning.

 

[FoeverBlues]

Not sure AFL can allow a trade and give compo.

Geelong - Get Dangerfield
Adelaide - Get pick #14


Geelong - Get Pick 14, player XXX
Crows - Get Pick 9 and next years first rounder

Geelong - Get Hendo
Blues - Get pick 14

Will not be easy for Geelong as player XXX will need to look like a fair deal.

Was not looking at COMPO option.

Crows already have p14

Better for Crows to get Cats next year first rounder and upgrade of p14 to p9.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

Didn't see it but I did hear that assessment.

Interviewer: "What annoys you the most about your Coach?"
Rockliff: "He's always calling me fat har har har har"

....later, Rockliff is shown walking into a team meeting

Leppitch: "You're the worst captain in the AFL Rocky"
Rockliff: "And you're the worst coach har har har har"

 

[Blue and Silver]

Oh and a handy guide for all regarding the current standing of draft picks:

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-10-...ubs-provisional-picks-as-trade-period-unfolds

 

[SABlue]

Yep that's a good point, Weitering may have the talent to be a utility type like Roughead. Would definitely increase his pick 1 credentials.

There is obviously a lot to weigh up for a list manager. Look at Collingwood for example, they are going the different way again and trading multiple picks for single players. This has its merits also, but if you look at their list, it will take 3 years minimum with their current list + Treloar to have 15 top 150 players like the hawks.

This is allowing the likes of Crisp, Adams, Marsh, Ramsay, Broomhead, Moore, Scharenberg, Grundy, De Goey and Maynard to enter that level. Obviously some of those players wont reach that level and in 3 years Pendlebury, Varcoe, Cloke and brown will be 30+

This means its likely that Collingwood will look trade picks for players in the coming years rather than draft youth who wont be ready in time for Collingwood to have a genuine crack. If they don't they will risk being in perpetual rebuild without much success.

If I were Collingwood's list manager I would rather trade my first pick and whatever else they use for treloar and try to get 2 good players (Aish and Redden) more so than 2 picks for 1 player.

Sick of this 150 players. It's about top 50 players, they give you a really good chance to win flags. That's why you don't trade pick 1 to get 4 blokes outside of that.

 

[BluesRule]

Was not looking at COMPO option.

Crows already have p14

Better for Crows to get Cats next year first rounder and upgrade of p14 to p9.

Crows have pick #13 now.

Agree trade is best for Adelaide as they previously lost draft picks for tampering so should try to be above board.