Review 2015 St Kilda Intraclub

[Nutsngum]

Nuts and defacto

Not sure what your background in footy is, but to consider yourself in a position to judge another's level of understanding... Considering your comments is a bit much?

Structure fwd of the footy during a stoppage... And fwd structure in general play... Are very different things

3/4 or even 1/2 ground press, both ways is even played at most successful local clubs today... Let-alone in AFL
Positions are not even close to traditional (in many cases old positions are defunct)
Positions like... inside, link, +1, target, sweep, and high and low are pretty commonplace nowadays

Cheating is when the opposition have the footy, or it's in dispute... And you stay fwd and not defend your opponent or run fwd of the play...
How are you supposed to defend your opponent if you are attacking when you team doesn't have possession, and the opposition win the footy? It's rolling the dice, and unless it's a set play... Coaches hate it!
AR continually mentions team defence.... Siposs, Lee and White are very weak in that area...

Anyways

This is not what you said.

You said that pushing forward without team possession is "cheating" and did not once mention about leaving your man and sitting around in the inside 50.

Perhaps you were there at the intraclub and White was indeed leaving his man to attack the footy to sit around in which case the real issue is his defensive aspect, not some idea of not being allowed in your defensive 50 if you dont have the ball.

I also hope you realize how meaningless half those terms you have used are as Ive heard half used maybe a dozen times in three years of local football training and the rest never.

 

[Saint Luke]

http://www.saints.com.au/news/2015-02-24/intra-club-stats

Weller - 10p, 5t - was he 'that' good?

It was an hour long intra club match, you can't compare to those to a full AFL game.

 

[Kildonan]

Am I the only one who thought Saunders didnt play too bad of a game? I thought his contested ball work wasnt bad at all, its just when he gets in space he probably doesnt have the foot skills needed to be a top line footballer

I love Saunders willingness to get in and do the hard stuff, and his desire to use his speed to create clearances.

I suppose my opinion of his match was coloured by his attempt to speed away from Webster (I think late in the second), who surprised Saunders by continuing to chase and finally catching him and laying a tackle. Saunders' judgement should have led him to dispose of the ball to advantage but he didn't which suggests he underestimates opponents or overestimates himself

 

[karaoke]

It was an hour long intra club match, you can't compare to those to a full AFL game.

It was just a question, I was comparing him to stats of others that played.

 

[gringo2011]

For one thing, in Richo's Q&A he mentioned that Bruce will mainly be playing the forward/ruck role this year. Was also really interesting what he said re Goddard and Paddy-Mac, with it sounding like Goddard is a better chance of an early debut.

That would be my guess too. Goddard is able to play as a FB or CHB and his size and movement is good. There are still opportunities for someone to play as a tall KP back with delaney the only real option and he's been limited this preseason. If Delaney goes down Hugh might be our go to man with Bruce the CHB. Mc Cartin only really gets exposure this year unless he is so far ahead of expectations we can't not play him.

 

[gringo2011]

Nuts and defacto

Not sure what your background in footy is, but to consider yourself in a position to judge another's level of understanding... Considering your comments is a bit much?

Structure fwd of the footy during a stoppage... And fwd structure in general play... Are very different things

3/4 or even 1/2 ground press, both ways is even played at most successful local clubs today... Let-alone in AFL
Positions are not even close to traditional (in many cases old positions are defunct)
Positions like... inside, link, +1, target, sweep, and high and low are pretty commonplace nowadays

Cheating is when the opposition have the footy, or it's in dispute... And you stay fwd and not defend your opponent or run fwd of the play...
How are you supposed to defend your opponent if you are attacking when you team doesn't have possession, and the opposition win the footy? It's rolling the dice, and unless it's a set play... Coaches hate it!
AR continually mentions team defence.... Siposs, Lee and White are very weak in that area...

Anyways

I reckon Steven Milne cheated for a large part of his career then. He would try to corral his player but once it didn't look like working he'd often just stop but one of his greatest attributes was running a risky play by backing others to win the ball and running out the back into space. If it comes off the coach loves it ...if it screws up you are probably going to warm the pine. My kid has been playing basketball this year and watching the good players you realise it's those split second decisions to take a risk that win you games. When it's easy to defend because of the limited space, those little bits of bravado are often the only difference in a very evenly matched encounter. The guys that are staid and defensive don't lose you games but they don't drag their team mates over the line either. Ideally you don't let up defensively but when it's possible taking a bit of a risk by leaving your man to head for empty space gets the basket.

 

[SaintLex]

So Longer v Holmes:

Longer: 3 kicks, 3 handballs, 6 disposals, 3 marks, 2 tackles
Holmes: 1 kick, 7 handballs, 8 disposals, 1 mark, 4 tackles

Plus the board consensus tends to be that Holmes won the majority of the hit outs.

That is slightly concerning if a bloke who's played footy all his life, with 25 games of AFL experience, is not well ahead of a guy who just picked up the game a few years ago.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Not if you're as tall and freakishly athletic as Holmes though, at least as far as the hitouts part goes. Longer has one of the biggest leaps in the league, so for Holmes to have been regularly getting higher than him it just tells you how much of a leap he has!

 

[TheLastEmperor]

Not if you're as tall and freakishly athletic as Holmes though, at least as far as the hitouts part goes. Longer has one of the biggest leaps in the league, so for Holmes to have been regularly getting higher than him it just tells you how much of a leap he has!

And an international rookie would never be given the opportunity unless his athletic profile was top percentile and superior to local talent. Holmes being faster, more agile, higher leap, etc is no surprise.

 

[Persevering Saint]

Actually, I wouldn't put it past the coaches to upgrade Holmes, if Hickey doesn't pull up. It'd give Longer a bit of thinking to do.

Might be interesting to see whether they pick Holmes or Saad on the back of the Siposs injury.

 

[CursingFijian]

Actually, I wouldn't put it past the coaches to upgrade Holmes, if Hickey doesn't pull up. It'd give Longer a bit of thinking to do.

Might be interesting to see whether they pick Holmes or Saad on the back of the Siposs injury.

Holmes or Saad or Sinclair... the forgotten one.


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[sammm]

Holmes or Saad or Sinclair... the forgotten one.


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I bet it will be Saad.

Holmes still raw. Sinclair, not yet.

 

[joop]

So Longer v Holmes:

Longer: 3 kicks, 3 handballs, 6 disposals, 3 marks, 2 tackles
Holmes: 1 kick, 7 handballs, 8 disposals, 1 mark, 4 tackles

Plus the board consensus tends to be that Holmes won the majority of the hit outs.

That is slightly concerning if a bloke who's played footy all his life, with 25 games of AFL experience, is not well ahead of a guy who just picked up the game a few years ago.

I wouldn't judge them off that one Intra club. If memory serves me right Longer went off and it was Holmes vs Pierce for the last 3rd.
Longer did very well holding the number 1 roll for us majority of last year, being what? 21?
Make no mistake, Longer is well ahead of Holmes, despite what those stats say.

 

[Nutsngum]

Yeah holmes' tap work is really quite good and I think potentially dominating even at AFL level but around the ground his basic skills arent quite good enough to be no.1. Should still get a call up though at some point!

 

[CursingFijian]

I bet it will be Saad.

Holmes still raw. Sinclair, not yet.

I think that is a safe bet.

But the advocate in me says if Lonie shows a bit, Sinclair might be a left field rank outside smokey!


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[Big Mart]

There's probably a reason you've never heard them? As I said, not sure your involvement?!

What I do know, is that players who run one way, or don't contribute to defence... And hang back waiting for a turn over.... Get exposed.

White, Lee and Siposs are weak defensively... Well known and documented
By coach and players

Spencer allowed his man to attack off him too often again at the intra club
As he did in his massive 3 goal (6 possession) game vs Rich we all rave about...
His direct opponent for the game
29 possessions 15 marks

 

[gringo2011]

There's probably a reason you've never heard them? As I said, not sure your involvement?!

What I do know, is that players who run one way, or don't contribute to defence... And hang back waiting for a turn over.... Get exposed.

White, Lee and Siposs are weak defensively... Well known and documented
By coach and players

Spencer allowed his man to attack off him too often again at the intra club
As he did in his massive 3 goal (6 possession) game vs Rich we all rave about...
His direct opponent for the game
29 possessions 15 marks

Geezus man you are negative, he was in his first handful of games and he kicked 3 goals. That is a mighty achievement and is not a sign he has made it but shows he's not a slouch either. He has areas to work on but he's a very promising player he might not make it but give him a couple of years then if he hasn't adjusted to the game plan give him heaps. Tony Lockett only scored twos and threes mostly in his first year from memory and would have been in single digits of possessions. I don't think he ever defended much. To me Spencer is a long way ahead of where I imagined he'd be. Tall forwards don't usually come on quickly.

 

[hayes]

There's probably a reason you've never heard them? As I said, not sure your involvement?!

What I do know, is that players who run one way, or don't contribute to defence... And hang back waiting for a turn over.... Get exposed.

White, Lee and Siposs are weak defensively... Well known and documented
By coach and players

Spencer allowed his man to attack off him too often again at the intra club
As he did in his massive 3 goal (6 possession) game vs Rich we all rave about...
His direct opponent for the game
29 possessions 15 marks

What would you say is the primary role of a forward?

 

[Mangus]

Not sure many of the gun forwards were renowned for their defensive efforts. For the very best it becomes less of a problem as defenders are often too nervous to leave them alone and concentrate only on stopping. Sometimes a defender will try and expose the forwards lack of defensive effort but good sides who can force turnovers will expose the defender on the way back. Right now Spencer rightly doesn't get that kind of respect and we are not a good enough side to make defenders pay for their cavalier free running ways.

 

[crasha301]

Lots of good points and arguments about spencer on this thread.

My point will be that he has only played 2 games and has ALOT to learn but has shown a bit.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Lots of good points and arguments about spencer on this thread.

My point will be that he has only played 2 games and has ALOT to learn but has shown a bit.

And Spencer's defensive efforts have improved out of sight. He used to be a one effort, that's enough for me player.

Despite what our resident super coach may think, a large part of Spencer's game will be based around getting goal side of his opponent & using his pace. Whether that's cheating or not is up to Richo...IMO as long as he's working hard to keep the ball in F50, tackling hard & contesting marks he'll be doing his job.

 

[CursingFijian]

And Spencer's defensive efforts have improved out of sight. He used to be a one effort, that's enough for me player.

Despite what our resident super coach may think, a large part of Spencer's game will be based around getting goal side of his opponent & using his pace. Whether that's cheating or not is up to Richo...IMO as long as he's working hard to keep the ball in F50, tackling hard & contesting marks he'll be doing his job.

AR must think thats cheating based on his latest tweet regarding Spencer.

 

[Persevering Saint]

The 6 points from those goals doesn't count, because it's cheating.

 

[Big Mart]

Yes .... Goals are the only measure of a forwards performance...

That'd be an informed comment

Getting goal side of your opponent is fine, depending on when yo do it...

Guess what it's called if you do it, when your team is not in possession?

When your team, wins the footy, it's called running hard.

 

[Big Mart]

Not sure the primary role of a fwd is to allow their opponent to get 29 touches and 15 marks... You'd need to kick a big bag just to break even...

Even then... We are not considering how the player got their goals??