Abbott Leadership challenge - "Et tu, Turnbull?" - 14/9/15

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AM said:
Methinks you take slogans way too literally. Possibly due to the plethora of such stuff you've digested from your former leader.;)
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You're a great poster, AM. So I don't want to detract from you.
But I wouldn't call Fire a Coalition fan.
He is right. There has been a limp dicked attempt to destroy Turnbull. It's so bad, that I think Turnbull might even be behind it, to make us all want to support him more.

Aussies love a battler!
 

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Who's going to get the second most important portfolio in government, which is Treasurer-Scott Morrison, or Joe Hockey?


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CM86 said:
You're a great poster, AM. So I don't want to detract from you.
But I wouldn't call Fire a Coalition fan.
He is right. There has been a limp dicked attempt to destroy Turnbull. It's so bad, that I think Turnbull might even be behind it, to make us all want to support him more.

Aussies love a battler!
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It's only the beginning mate. Already we've had almost every right wing member of the commentariat reel out the vitriol. As well as two Cabinet Ministers. A number of back benchers have weighed in too. Not to mention an inner sanctum leak.

I agree that Turnbull's ascension doesn't bode well for Labor which suffers from weak leadership as it is. However, don't underestimate how long the rightists hold grudges, not the least of whom is the Mad Monk. Reckon he'll give KRudd a run for his money in that respect.

Not sure if you're suggesting Malcolm is a battler. But if you are then -with all due respect- I think that's risible.
 
medusala said:
Mal, for the last time. Liberalism needs the state to enforce PROPERTY RIGHTS.
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First time I've heard 'liberty' defined as 'property'.

And thats not what it's about at all. Property rights are important. But not as important as human rights.

Classical liberalism is a political ideology, a branch of liberalism which advocates civil liberties and political freedom with representative democracy under the rule of law and emphasizes economic freedom
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Not a mention of property rights - even in the definition you provide. A lot about 'civil liberties, political freedom, the rule of law etc'.

Youre a minarchist. And a conservative. And I have serious concerns about how you view brown people.

Youre no libertarian. Youd have children working 20 hour days 7 days a week in the factory if you could.
 
kfc1 said:
According to the people who thought Abbott was doing a good job Gillard fanbois thought Gillard was only being criticised for deposing a sitting PM because sexism :nuts:
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EFA. And clarity.
medusala said:
the resident village idiot fanboi rodent on here however, dribbles nonsense on a regular basis including attempted ad hominen attacks (its like having wet lettuce thrown at you), I assume given that moderation here was effectively over given that?
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You can tell Meds really does think my "ad hominen attacks" are like wet lettuce, because he loves talking about me without tagging me, and he is bringing them up with a Mod. D-fence!

Speaking of defence, Meds idea of 'freedom from the state' includes massively increasing military spending to 3% of GDP. Or is that the brown people part of his beliefs? Anyway, if people want to judge if my "attacks" are unfair, then Meds is referring to this guide to his repetitive posting style.
 
AM said:
My belief is that Malcolm has more to fear from the right of his own party than from the Labor Party. There isn't a more vindictive, duplicitous bunch in politics.

Before the paint dried one of the Mad Monks staffers said of the new leader " you're a c..."
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God that incident sums up perfectly the cognitive distortions mediocre people suffer when they get staffer jobs through party connections and what a rotten, toxic place abbots office must have been.

You're not elected, Richard Dowdy, you're not a player, you don't have any say in who the liberal leader is, you don't deserve jack s**t, and the only emotion you should feel is gratitude that the Australian political system has let you occupy a position of power and influence obviously beyond your ability for a few years. Now piss off back to your Maccas job.

Surely if there is one lesson you can take out of the Abbott prime ministership it's that stacking your office with amateur, dickhead ideologues is a very bad idea. They inevitably treat backbencher MPs with contempt and disrespect, and inevitably that chicken comes home to roost when their boss needs those same MPs to vote for him.

If Credlin had been less of a campaigner to Bishop, and other abbott staffers had not committed a thousand other petty acts of disrespect and disloyalty to backbenchers and ministers, Abbott would have won the leadership poll.
 

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Saturday Paper the Abbott PMship up perfectly.
https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/2015/09/19/kicking-the-abbott/14425848002386
It is no exaggeration to say Tony Abbott is the worst prime minister Australia has had. To the extent that his brief and destructive leadership of the country is remembered, it will not be remembered well.

Abbott is a prime minister without a legacy. In attempting to defend one this week, he came up with not much: some jobs, a few trade agreements, an infrastructure project, a border protection regime founded on human rights abuses, a royal commission so compromised by bias its own commissioner had to consider removing himself.

Abbott governed for the past and the few conservatives desperate to continue living there. He governed against science and in contempt of the environment. He governed in opposition to social equality, in terror of reform. His was a government of fear and avoidance, a rolling sideshow anxiously avoiding the fact it had nothing to add and no idea what to do.

Abbott spent his time in opposition degrading the office of the prime minister. His was a campaign of debasement: a coarsening of debate, a running down of the respect once stored in the institution. Those who say he was a fine opposition leader do so in error. There is no victory in destroying what you set out to win.

On prevailing at the 2013 election, he placed on his head a small and tinny crown. He did nothing to repair it in the years that have passed since. Indeed, he added only to its dents and tarnish.

He treated law like a plaything. He made policy at odds with the country’s own constitution. He fought consensus and held out against change. He refused humility. He let run the island camps where women and children are raped and men killed. He turned in from the world. He mocked treaties. He failed obligations. He fed prejudice wherever he could.

He was a coward with reform. He left the tax system lumbering and unfair. He failed to articulate policy. He hectored the ABC, cowing it and becoming ludicrously involved in editorial processes. He shunned innovation. He craved distraction.

Abbott’s great fear, and the fear of those people left supporting him, is tomorrow. He is fearful of same-sex marriage. Fearful of an economy remade by climate change. Fearful of the fair distribution of taxes. Fearful of power as it ebbs away from the places where it was once concentrated. But tomorrow is always close; his prime ministership was always doomed.

Abbott is an experiment that failed. He is proof that Australia cannot be governed from the far right, just as it cannot be governed from the far left. He was the last hope and final holdout of a group of people wishing desperately against a modern Australia.

His time in the office leaves a hole in this country’s agenda. A period of incompetent stasis. Two wasted years we must now hungrily get back.

He will not be missed. He should not be praised. He was a failure selfishly wishing that the world would fail with him. We can only hope his like will not be seen again.
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I thought it was unfair, but only in underselling the trade agreements. Maybe they will turn out to be terrific. However, I fear they were signed in haste in order to try and retroactively make his 'Australia now open for business' comments make sense.

Legacy implies things that will remain for a decent amount of time, so I think the removal of one and a half taxes won't really be recalled. Carbon abatement continues to be a policy of all major parties. Border Force's name is pretty silly so I don't imagine that will remain, maybe the militaristic hints in their uniforms will. The whole set-up of Border Force has been poorly handled, however, and I even think they're about to go on industrial action. A roads-only approach to infrastructure was hardly worth admiring, and States will take a lot of credit there. Knights and Dames will disappear again. The NBN will be made properly one day. He really has nothing that will be enduring. A much more generous parental leave could've been it. If he'd done it.

The loss of the car industry appears to be his major practical contribution to the country.

I think his main legacy is just political. His time as opposition leader and PM meant 6 spills in 6 years. The conservative right seem unable to communicate well, or govern well, and they also aren't popular - a powerful combo. He also puts to bed the lie that the Liberals are necessarily better on the economy. If we end up at war with Russia, I guess there might be a footnote relating to the 'shirtfront' comment. Starting Royal Commissions into the other side's MPs will seem more normal. Rules on taxpayer-funded travel will probably be made clearer, but that'll be under Turnbull or Shorten. But he was fit.
 
kfc1 said:
Maybe a remnant of the worst of Goward. Id take Howard over Aboott 100 times out of 100
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Kfc1. I've liked numerous posts of yours, and you have done the same to mine over the years. So I tend to look at the positive side of your posts. I'm just saying, Howard was pos who validated right wing, nutbag, scare mongering rhetoric in Australia. This legacy will continue to remain in Australia while it's in a recent generation's memory. Hence, Scott Morrison's increased presence. Abbott, and idiots like him, have mostly been rejected and killed off. The Australian public will at least know where the line is when judging future leaders.

Abbott or Howard? It's not an either/or situation. You won't get one without the other. They're the same disease.
 
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Mead said:
God that incident sums up perfectly the cognitive distortions mediocre people suffer when they get staffer jobs through party connections and what a rotten, toxic place abbots office must have been.

You're not elected, Richard Dowdy, you're not a player, you don't have any say in who the liberal leader is, you don't deserve jack s**t, and the only emotion you should feel is gratitude that the Australian political system has let you occupy a position of power and influence obviously beyond your ability for a few years. Now piss off back to your Maccas job.

Surely if there is one lesson you can take out of the Abbott prime ministership it's that stacking your office with amateur, dickhead ideologues is a very bad idea. They inevitably treat backbencher MPs with contempt and disrespect, and inevitably that chicken comes home to roost when their boss needs those same MPs to vote for him.

If Credlin had been less of a campaigner to Bishop, and other abbott staffers had not committed a thousand other petty acts of disrespect and disloyalty to backbenchers and ministers, Abbott would have won the leadership poll.
Click to expand...

Spend some time around politicians and their staffers (most of whom view themselves as future MPs themselves), regardless of which Party you support, it'll seriously erode what little confidence you have left in our politicians and the calibre of people they work with.

Most of them are complete and utter *******s.
 
AM said:
Methinks you take slogans way too literally. Possibly due to the plethora of such stuff you've digested from your former leader.;)
Click to expand...

I consistently vote 1 greens, usually preferencing whoever is in opposition. If I appear to be a digesting liberal, then you have one of the more extreme partisan viewpoints I have ever come across.
 
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King Elvis said:
Spend some time around politicians and their staffers (most of whom view themselves as future MPs themselves), regardless of which Party you support, it'll seriously erode what little confidence you have left in our politicians and the calibre of people they work with.

Most of them are complete and utter *******s.
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Agree mostly but I thought the Canning Labor candidate came across pretty humble. Shame he lost, should find him another seat or try again next year.
 
So, now with the benefit of hindsight, the gloating (some of the gloating) out of the way, time for analysis.

What was the point you realised Abbott was done?

For me it was the point I had dinner with my old boy and told him the Prime Minister ate an onion with the skin on the day previously. At first he thought I'd meant one of my friends had eaten a raw onion and he was appalled, then I told him it was the Prime Minister as part of a press event for Tasmanian vegetable growers and there was an incredibly odd silence. No laughter just a weird shrug.

The small things. Like eating an onion.
 
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