Abbott to raise the GST?

[Todman]

the only people on $250,000 who pay that amount of tax are high ranking government services.

Everyone else on that kind of coin has family trusts and other "legal" ways of avoiding tax. When you are earning that kind of coin alot of options open up to you.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...ey-pay-all-of-it/story-e6frgd0x-1226841174461


THE degree of ignorance about the distribution of tax across households is remarkable, especially given that the truth is so easily and freely accessible. For politicians perhaps it is wilful; the facts suit neither side.
The Left typically tries to create the impression the “rich” aren’t paying their “fair share”. Consider former treasurer Wayne Swan’s attacks on “mining billionaires” and welfare groups’ continual prattling about the financial benefit of concessional super taxation to high-income earners.

The Right, meanwhile, evokes the ordinary, “battling” taxpayer, whose hard-won earnings, so the argument goes, are siphoned off to pay for inefficient or ineffective government programs.

But the overwhelming bulk of people in Australia pay no net tax at all. High-income earners have become a giant pinata that the majority hit for extra money to pay for whatever new social spending programs the political class proposes to stay in office

 

[Maggie5]

Those two paragraphs are making totally different points...

If you earn more, you spend more on creature comforts, thus pay more GST.

People who earn less, spend less and pay less GST.

The best thing we could do is

1) raise GST to say, 25%
2) drastistically increase the tax free threshold, to say, 50k.

Lower income earners would be much better off and higher income earners (the 180k+ bracket) would actually start pay tax.

I think that you may be including luxuries in your arguement.
In proportion to income I doubt that an increase in GST would affect the higher income earners on say things like, food, clothing, education, daily travel, petrol as it would to the lower income earners.

 

[Belnakor]

They are the people who are actually declaring their full earnings. In which case of course they pay full tax.

 

[Maggie5]

View attachment 89526

Mr $250,000 pays his fair share

You graphic tells me nothing!

 

[Todman]

1) I would swap welfare payments to food stamps and rent allowances.
2) Even if we didn't, Welfare should be for food + basic essentials, most of which are not covered by the current GST, so you would not need to raise welfare payments
3) a larger tax free threshold means that the minimum wage would go further, and be an effective raise of the wage. But businesses would pay the same.

I will swap $10 worth of food stamps for $5 cash so I can buy that packet of cigarettes that I enjoy smoking and gives me great pleasure.
I will swap $100 worth of food stamps for $50 cash so I can buy my kids a couple of Xmas presents

 

[Belnakor]

I think that you may be including luxuries in your arguement.
In proportion to income I doubt that an increase in GST would affect the higher income earners on say things like, food, clothing, education, daily travel, petrol as it would to the lower income earners.

well food doesn't have GST, but there would need to be some kind of small offset which could be calculated on market basket. But the key would be to make the tax free threshold higher so people are more likely to enter the workforce etc.

 

[Maggie5]

I will swap $10 worth of food stamps for $5 cash so I can buy that packet of cigarettes that I enjoy smoking and gives me great pleasure.
I will swap $100 worth of food stamps for $50 cash so I can buy my kids a couple of Xmas presents

Where can I buy cigarettes for $5 in Australia?

 

[Belnakor]

I will swap $10 worth of food stamps for $5 cash so I can buy that packet of cigarettes that I enjoy smoking and gives me great pleasure.
I will swap $100 worth of food stamps for $50 cash so I can buy my kids a couple of Xmas presents

If people want to do that through barter they can. But being on welfare should be difficult. People should have to work if they can. (if they can't then they should be supported by the state obviously)

 

[Maggie5]

well food doesn't have GST, but there would need to be some kind of small offset which could be calculated on market basket. But the key would be to make the tax free threshold higher so people are more likely to enter the workforce etc.

Not talking about current situation. My understanding is that the next movement in GST is not only increase but cover all areas.

 

[madmug]

I think that is what I most in awe of in relation to 'gument' after studying it for many years. It is the way they slowly condition the next generation that paying ever more taxes is the "right thing to do". Eventually they don't have to sell the message themselves - they have their shills in the media and people like you on forums vociferally arguing the case. All they have to do indoctrinate you at university and the job is done.

It used to annoy me, but these days I just dont care. If you guys are content to pay for us baby boomers and gen Xer's sins, who am I to complain?

What the hell, make GST 20%. That'll really stick it to the rich, amirite?

Any cursory glance at the figures shows that Australia is a low tax nation amongst OECD nations. OECD ave about 34%, Aust about 26%. But dont let the facts put you off.

20% GST will affect lower income people much more as they spend their much more of their total income on basic living expenses. A reduction in Income tax doesnt affect them as much, if at all.

 

[Belnakor]

20% GST will affect lower income people much more as they spend their much more of their total income on basic living expenses. A reduction in Income tax doesnt affect them as much, if at all.

basic living expenses are food + rent.

Everything else is luxury.

 

[Maggie5]

basic living expenses are food + rent.

Everything else is luxury.

Clothing, educating your children, paying for gas and electricity, driving to work or using public transport to get to work is not basic living expenses?
Since when?

 

[Belnakor]

Clothing, educating your children, paying for gas and electricity, driving to work or using public transport to get to work is not basic living expenses?
Since when?

educating your children is free. books + uniform should be provided if required. Gas + electricty should be capped and paid for by the government for welfare people. Public transport should be free for welfare people, assuming they are using it for job hunting and not general travel. They should be 100% focused on getting a job.

In any case those kind of expenses could be evaluated and welfare raised if those kind of expenses are impacted by a 20% GST. It would be simple.

 

[Todman]

educating your children is free. books + uniform should be provided if required. Gas + electricty should be capped and paid for by the government for welfare people. Public transport should be free for welfare people, assuming they are using it for job hunting and not general travel. They should be 100% focused on getting a job.

In any case those kind of expenses could be evaluated and welfare raised if those kind of expenses are impacted by a 20% GST. It would be simple.

You obviously don't have school age kids do you. cost a fortune to send a kid to a government school. All the extras that the kids need to experience all cost. That education allowance Julia handed out, the schools all thought "Right the parents have the money so lets create a program that costs to the value of the handout."

 

[RUNVS]

You obviously don't have school age kids do you. cost a fortune to send a kid to a government school. All the extras that the kids need to experience all cost. That education allowance Julia handed out, the schools all thought "Right the parents have the money so lets create a program that costs to the value of the handout."

Nonsense as school had a lot of extra costs when I was in primary school and that was 15 years ago. Government run education has not been anywhere close to being free in my lifetime.

 

[madmug]

basic living expenses are food + rent.

Everything else is luxury.

Health costs. Very little is actually free & many still try to pay private health. Transport costs, not free at all, rates, water power etc etc. All increasing well above pay/pension rises.

You really must live in a funny world!

 

[Todman]

Nonsense as school had a lot of extra costs when I was in primary school and that was 15 years ago. Government run education has not been anywhere close to being free in my lifetime.

Yes primary school costs , then why is everybody jumping up and down over tertiary fees.

 

[RUNVS]

Yes primary school costs , then why is everybody jumping up and down over tertiary fees.

Because they are even more expensive and getting more unaffordable all the time. Sure technically the government has HECS loans but they do not take into account things like how expensive books are. I can easily end up paying $400 a semester in books and lets not forget I am paying $40 a week in petrol just to get too and from university. All of which is not covered under HECS.

 

[Todman]

So once you pass and get a job in your chosen you wont give a $hit anymore.

 

[RUNVS]

So once you pass and get a job in your chosen you wont give a $hit anymore.

My chosen field is hardly super high paying. I mean it is a good wage and I won't be complaining at all with my $60,000+ a year wage but I won't be rolling in money.

 

[Todman]

My chosen field is hardly super high paying. I mean it is a good wage and I won't be complaining at all with my $60,000+ a year wage but I won't be rolling in money.

What are you studing to become?

 

[Maggie5]

educating your children is free. books + uniform should be provided if required. Gas + electricty should be capped and paid for by the government for welfare people. Public transport should be free for welfare people, assuming they are using it for job hunting and not general travel. They should be 100% focused on getting a job.

In any case those kind of expenses could be evaluated and welfare raised if those kind of expenses are impacted by a 20% GST. It would be simple.

I was questioning basic living expenses in which you only named two ignoring the others I mentioned but go on to something which doesn't make sense.

 

[pazza]

I think such a move needs to be properly debated and taken to a referendum.

 

[Belnakor]

Health costs. Very little is actually free & many still try to pay private health.

health is bloody cheap for what you get. I recently had numerous visits to a specialist and it didn't cost me a zac, since it was in the public system.

 

[RUNVS]

What are you studing to become?

Primary School teacher.