Opinion Adam Goodes discussion

[BRWB]

...
I don't doubt that SOME people boo Goodes due to racism and I believe the majority are sheep but I also believe that some that boo him simply don't like the bloke due to his attitude and the way he plays and I believe those people are more than entitled to boo him or anyone else.

The issue is working out who is who and what I'm asking is how the hell do you do that ???????

Both of us have posted on this subject a bit and I hope you can take the time to read and try and understand this post, as I have read your posts. Please.

MD believe it or not I actually I agree with you on 95% of what you are saying. I've also seen your posts on bullying by Macca of players before and I can see you are vehemently against bullying and also respect the fact you are consistent in your view that because the booing is affecting Goodes mental health, you wouldn't participate in booing. I also 100% agree with you that labelling people racist for booing is not right, but for different reasons.

Where we differ, is actually the key issue in this whole debate IMO.

Just about everyone booing or defending the booing of Goodes say 'many people don't boo Goodes because he's indigenous, they do it for a shed load of other reasons'. However, in the context of racism and how it is defined under human rights law around the world, the motivations of the people booing are not the only question in determining racism. It is the affect of the act on the victim (minority) that needs to be considered as well.

So, the impact the booing has on Goodes needs to be considered. As you say, no one (including Goodes) can tell how much of the booing is racist. But again, as you say some people are booing for racist reasons. But Goodes feels the booing, which has been systematic and unprecedented against one player, and has escalated after he expressed his minority beliefs via the war dance, is in some way racist. It has disturbed him enough to prevent him from working.

The definition of Casual Racism on our government's human rights website makes it clear...

"Unlike overt and intentional acts of racism, casual racism isn’t often intended to cause offence or harm.

Doesn’t the lack of intent mean that casual racism isn't really racism?

One of the obstacles to having an open conversation about race is the tendency to downplay things as not “truly” or “really” racist. This can embolden or encourage prejudice. You don’t need to subscribe to doctrines of racial superiority or incite racial violence to say or do something with racist implications.

Racism is as much about impact as it is about intention. We shouldn’t forget about those who are on the receiving end of discrimination." https://itstopswithme.humanrights.gov.au/what-can-you-do/speak/casual-racism

Now a lot of people then say, well whenever life gets tough for a minority like it has for Goodes, they can then play the race card and that isn't fair.

And yes that is a fair comment. But again, by putting laws in place to protect minorities against discrimination, it can't be any other way (even if it doesn't seem fair). Why? Because no-one in the majority are going to concede they are being racist, so if our laws reflected the majority view, hardly anyone would ever be seen to be racist. It is a trade off that people have put in place to protect the majority against the worst in themselves (or against the sheep like and moronic behaviour you have referred to). These laws were largely put in place around the world after the Holocaust. Decent Germans (people like you and I) were asked why they didn't do something to stop the holocaust, and without fail the general population said 'they didn't know about the gas chambers and it wasn't their fault'. The minorities knew but they didn't have the voice via humans rights laws to say or legally do anything. And no, it isn't just white people who engage in racism and its more extreme version of genocide. Idi Amin in Uganda did it, Pol Pot in Cambodia did. The Serbs did it. Virtually every culture has engaged in racism and even in genocide at some point in their history, so its not an anti-white thing. Anti racism laws are aimed at giving minorities a voice to prevent racism (and in turn prevent racism's most extreme form - genocide).

I know it sounds extreme, to somehow how equate genocide to booing, but its obviously a continuum. Thankfully our society is a long way from genocide. But the fact that Goodes can say the booing is racist behaviour and then have our politicial and AFL leaders back him up (largely due to our human rights laws) means our anti racism laws are working as they should. That means they will protect us 'sheep and morons' from the worst in ourselves, and prevent behaviour discriminating against minorities, and therefore prevent atrocities.

Anyway, while many don't agree with the concept that the victim's (minority) perception of events is key in what determines racism is fair, it is enshrined in our human rights laws (along with a reasonable test to prevent BS claims). And those laws not only protect minorities, they protect us from the worst in ourselves.

Having said that I again agree with you that labelling people racist who boo Goodes (or defend it) is not right. IMO engaging in unwitting racist behaviour does not make someone a racist BUT according to our human right's laws, systematically booing Goodes is racist behaviour.

I hope this makes sense.

 

[yebiga]

Mummy they're booing me
Mummy make them stop

 

[House_of_Dahl]

"..a great leader of men." Please. He's a footballer who's a nice bloke and is trying to use what influence he has to how he sees fit. Fair enough.

I haven't booed Goodes (yet), but I've booed Griffen - so I'm racist against whites (because I've booed Griffen).

What's having kids or not got to do with it? No I don't have kids - but I assume you'll hold that against me like a racist would due to background/colour? I must be a low life for choosing not to have kids for unselfish reasons (like environmental reasons, world overpopulation or considering adoption). Some of you preachers need to have a good look in the mirror yourselves.

lol way to miss the point. No judgement over whether you want kids or not. I asked so you could attempt to empathise with the treatment of Goodes as a real person and understand how bad that treatment is (just like if it was done to one of your kids)... but seems empathy is not one of your strengths, nor with most of those defending the Goodes treatment.

And Murph isnt just a footballer he is a captain and a leader. And his empathy and care for others is part of why he is a good one.

 

[NBates]

lol way to miss the point. No judgement over whether you want kids or not. I asked so you could attempt to empathise with the treatment of Goodes as a real person and understand how bad that treatment is (just like if it was done to one of your kids)... but seems empathy is not one of your strengths, nor with most of those defending the Goodes treatment.

And Murph isnt just a footballer he is a captain and a leader. And his empathy and care for others is part of why he is a good one.

Well you should have explained it that way in the first place. I just love how people like you automatically put people down because they don't have kids. Just the same as racism.

As for Murph, but he IS just a footballer, lol! Don't get me wrong, good luck to him for putting what he sees as a good example out there to influence people who for some reason see him as Ghandi.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

Well you should have explained it that way in the first place. I just love how people like you automatically put people down because they don't have kids. Just the same as racism.

As for Murph, but he IS just a footballer, lol! Don't get me wrong, good luck to him for putting what he sees as a good example out there to influence people who for some reason see him as Ghandi.

OMG you still think I care if you have kids . Replace "kids" with sister, brother, wife, mum - anyone you care deeply about. Then tell me if you'd be OK with it if they were being treated like Goodes.

 

[NBates]

OMG you still think I care if you have kids . Replace "kids" with sister, brother, wife, mum - anyone you care deeply about. Then tell me if you'd be OK with it if they were being treated like Goodes.

They'd be tougher than that for a start. I would instill in them self esteem. You brought up the kids bit, not me.

 

[yebiga]

This has the makings of a great South Park episode:
"Adam goodes won't play"
They don't respect my authorita mummy
All afl players refuse to play
Until the public stops booing
You racist if you boo

It's too good to be true - wait _ it is *en true

 

[Mutt]

Exactly why many don't post their respectful opinions on this forum.

Because people attempt to censor them and tell them what they can and can't say on here, as you have been? MD can look after himself - he has had no problem abusing me for a couple of years now. He doesn't need you to try to bully me off here.

 

[Metal]

Some articles and commentary on the essence of the hurt being felt and therefore why Goodes has chosen his course. If you do nothing else, I suggest you read and listen to Stan Grant, to gain a deeper understand of what it is to be Aboriginal.

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...des-feels-every-indigenous-person-has-felt-it (Stan Grant opinion piece)

http://www.abc.net.au/radio/programitem/pg4OGnnjoG?play=true (Stan Grant audio)

http://www.francisleach.com/speaking-frankly-blog/2015/7/26/off-to-the-racists (Francis Leach opinion piece)

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-30/tapp-booing-goodes-an-insidious-cancer/6659698 (Francis Leach on The Drum)

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2015/s4284169.htm (Charlie King and Andrew Bolt debate)

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...-hang-my-head-in-despair-20150730-ginnob.html (Bob Murphy opinion piece)

 

[Sights]

I've been following the Adam Goodes situation since the 'spear incident' with increasing interest. There's nothing I'm going to say that hasn't been said already, but I feel like I should add my voice to the weight of opinion, because this is something that's been weighing more and more heavily on my mind as a footy fan and as an Australian.

First of all, the booing has to stop. Regardless of intentions, causes, and so on, right now it is serious bullying and it is clearly affecting his mental health. Even if you have no personal experience with mental health issues, I shouldn't have to tell you that it's gone way too far. If you disagree, and think you can do or say whatever to whoever you want, damned be the consequences, then honestly I don't think anyone can help you. And if you think he's being a sook, a whinge, soft, a crybaby, or anything along those lines for not wanting to be booed every week to the point where he has to reconsider his career, let me say on a personal note that as someone who's struggled with depression and been very close to others who have had it a lot worse, those kinds of attitudes are what push people over the edge, and I say this as someone who has had to pull close friends back from that edge more times than I care the remember. Take a good hard look at yourself.

Back on track, second of all, I'm sure there are many reasons why people boo, but in my opinion none of them individually stand up to scrutiny.

He picked on a 13 year old girl. She was being racist and he was within his rights to point that out. He wasn't to know she was 13 and I'm not sure it should make a difference even if he did. His pointing her out of the crowd, and later asking for an apology, is not unreasonable (even if the media was subsequently unduly harsh on a child for making a mistake).
He did an aggressive war dance towards the crowd. I don't think it was particularly aggressive (imaginary spear or otherwise) and I didn't see anyone ducking for cover. Maybe you think players should have more respect for the crowds and shouldn't interact negatively with them in any way. That's very high-minded and not unreasonable, but like many other complaints it's not an on-going thing, so why does he keep getting booed? And even then, does anyone have a problem with an Aboriginal war dance (traditional or not) being performed by an Aborigine during Indigenous Round as a goal celebration? If not, where else to direct it but opposition supporters? Nobody on the other team is going to stand politely in place to watch, they're going to get back into position for the bounce. Just direct it down the ground to nobody in particular? That would have to make for the weakest celebration (and the most timid war dance) I've seen.
He's a dirty player. Is he the dirtiest there ever was? I haven't heard anybody claim that he is, and with good reason, and yet he gets booed more than any other 'dirty' players have as has been pointed out many times. You might say that dirty players get booed all the time, and sure, a small minority of idiots will always boo a player no matter what they do. But so many people? And when Goodes isn't even doing anything vaguely unsportsmanlike? I've not seen anything like it before.
He was made Australian of the Year undeservedly. I don't think he was (take a look at the full list of previous winners), and I find it difficult to believe that anyone really cares, but even if you do get very passionate about the Australian of the Year, why take out your frustration on Goodes? He didn't ask for the award. Boo the selection committee.
It's just idiots, peer pressure and groupthink. I'm sure that plays a big part, but I'm not convinced that's all that's going on. So a few bad apples start up the boos and every week a good fraction of the stadium just gets caught up in it?
It's only because the media tells people not to do it. The media forgot about Adam Goodes about two weeks after the Carlton game, which was two months ago. Nobody was telling people last week not to boo anyone (unless you count this club's own campaign, which some people were calling a PR platitude funnily enough) and nobody was calling crowds racist either. This bad-boy reverse-psychology business might go some way to explaining the keyboard warriors on the main board the past few days/weeks, but not the people that have actually been booing.
It was only really the West Coast crowd, they're awful. People have been booing for a long time. Maybe the West Coast crowd was the worst in recent weeks but they're far from the only ones.
I'm not racist, I boo everyone equally. I don't know if you're racist or not, but you're definitely an arsehole. Congratulations.

Third and finally, let's talk about race. When people say this isn't a racist issue, it's almost always pointed out that other Aboriginal players don't cop it nearly as bad and the vast majority of people have nothing against dark-skinned people. Very true! And certainly that's a good thing. But allow me to make an observation - Australians get very touchy when non-whites go 'off-script'. Any time someone, especially but not necessarily an Aboriginal, starts talking about Australia and Australian society/culture as not necessarily as tolerant, multi-cultural and happy a place for everyone as we like to think, people can tend to get very defensive and dismissive. Shooting the messenger becomes the national past-time, in the media, in politics, in general polite society. Take a look at any debate about Islam, refugees or immigration and you'll see it, but especially when it comes to Aboriginals.

Whenever Adam Goodes' Australian of the Year award is brought up, complaints are always made about how he went on about Invasion Day and so on, and that people should just get over it. "It's not my fault" is the common refrain. I'm sorry, but you and I are the ongoing beneficiaries of the conquest of Aboriginal Australia, regardless of your views on the history of colonisation. Aboriginal people are not beneficiaries, and the majority of Aboriginal people live poorer lives now than their ancestors did and currently have the poorest health and wealth outcomes of any indigenous people living inside a developed nation. I'm not saying that as a white Australian you are personally responsible for that and nobody is, not even Adam Goodes, but nor does that mean we can just sit back and say it's someone else's problem, or worse, not really a problem at all, whenever an Aborigine brings it up. Nor is it good enough to say that it's Aboriginal people's problem; apart from the fact that this is not the dog-eat-dog attitude we apply to any of our other societal ills, this is not a mess that Aboriginal people brought upon themselves. Nobody chooses, for example, to be born into poverty.

Now Adam Goodes is known to be outspoken on matters of race in Australia, not just in regards to his Australian of the Year acceptance and the Aboriginal war dance, but also as a government spokesman and so on. It is my personal opinion that for many people, this adds another dimension to their opinion of Goodes, consciously or subconsciously. He's seen as "uppity", not knowing that his place is to play football and not guilt people into feeling bad. Whatever other (figurative) crimes he's committed (as I've listed above), they thereby become amplified as evidence against his good character and used to justify to slagging him off or, as we have seen, booing him incessantly for things other players are not. This is what people mean when they say the booing is racist. Not that it is done because he has dark skin, because obviously other people have not been targeted in the same way, but that his outspokenness about race and racism has made people more comfortable to level a punishment against him that does not fit the crime, and to treat him with an unfair double-standard. Or simply, that their harsh treatment of Goodes is either motivated or at least coloured by Goodes being an Aboriginal man who is critical on the topic of Aboriginal right and issues.

Now I've written a lot because I've had a lot to get off my chest. If anyone reads it all and disagrees with any or all of it, so be it, I hope at the very least you got something out of it other than that I'm a bleeding-heart leftie pinko ivory tower SJW (as Internet discussions tend to go). I'm not here to tell you you're a bad person just because you don't agree with me. But to be honest this whole situation has made me feel very world-weary and I'm honestly disappointed that people have not been more universally supportive of Goodes regardless of their personal opinions of him. And if I might make a request, I believe that some racist sentiment must be behind the ferocity and on-going nature of the booing, but if you disagree, please don't dismiss this whole thing by saying others have had it worse, or so-and-so was never recognised for what they had to face, or that you've had to live with worse discrimination. It isn't a suffering contest and one issue need not detract from another, present or past. Just try to keep an open mind.

 

[GreatSouthWest]

OMG you still think I care if you have kids . Replace "kids" with sister, brother, wife, mum - anyone you care deeply about. Then tell me if you'd be OK with it if they were being treated like Goodes.

Interesting little sub-argument here. Sorry to drop into it, but NBates thought you were having a go at people without kids and their potential lack of understanding and impact this would have on children. Whether that's what you meant or not, the fact is NBates interpreted it this way - therefore that's the outcome and we have to accept it.

I recall a prominent poster on here making an off the cuff sarcastic joke that was mildly sexist in it's nature about 10 months ago. I knew it was sarcastic, my dog knew it was sarcastic, 98% of posters knew it was sarcastic, yet one lurker with 6 posts in as many years decided to pipe up and reply to the post calling it out as sexist, calling this place a 'boys cub' and causing all manner of arguments. Again it was held that if 1 person's opinion of the matter found it sexist - then the conclusion was that it was sexist.

I think that's where we are as a society. If one person has an extreme opinion that differs from the from the rest (whatever their combined opinions may be, then that person, and their position is right for all.

Does this ring any bells?

 

[TheFool]

Interesting little sub-argument here. Sorry to drop into it, but NBates thought you were having a go at people without kids and their potential lack of understanding and impact this would have on children. Whether that's what you meant or not, the fact is NBates interpreted it this way - therefore that's the outcome and we have to accept it.

I recall a prominent poster on here making an off the cuff sarcastic joke that was mildly sexist in it's nature about 10 months ago. I knew it was sarcastic, my dog knew it was sarcastic, 98% of posters knew it was sarcastic, yet one lurker with 6 posts in as many years decided to pipe up and reply to the post calling it out as sexist, calling this place a 'boys cub' and causing all manner of arguments. Again it was held that if 1 person's opinion of the matter found it sexist - then the conclusion was that it was sexist.

I think that's where we are as a society. If one person has an extreme opinion that differs from the from the rest (whatever their combined opinions may be, then that person, and their position is right for all.

Does this ring any bells?

The interesting thing about this is that the reason I'm just a lurker on this forum is because this "98% of posters" don't seem to care about other people. I don't feel like I belong on Bigfooty at all but I fight past that to hang around the Dogs forum because I love footy. If you're proud of that being the case, more power to you. Literally.

 

[NBates]

I've been following the Adam Goodes situation since the 'spear incident' with increasing interest. There's nothing I'm going to say that hasn't been said already, but I feel like I should add my voice to the weight of opinion, because this is something that's been weighing more and more heavily on my mind as a footy fan and as an Australian.

First of all, the booing has to stop. Regardless of intentions, causes, and so on, right now it is serious bullying and it is clearly affecting his mental health. Even if you have no personal experience with mental health issues, I shouldn't have to tell you that it's gone way too far. If you disagree, and think you can do or say whatever to whoever you want, damned be the consequences, then honestly I don't think anyone can help you. And if you think he's being a sook, a whinge, soft, a crybaby, or anything along those lines for not wanting to be booed every week to the point where he has to reconsider his career, let me say on a personal note that as someone who's struggled with depression and been very close to others who have had it a lot worse, those kinds of attitudes are what push people over the edge, and I say this as someone who has had to pull close friends back from that edge more times than I care the remember. Take a good hard look at yourself.

Back on track, second of all, I'm sure there are many reasons why people boo, but in my opinion none of them individually stand up to scrutiny.

He picked on a 13 year old girl. She was being racist and he was within his rights to point that out. He wasn't to know she was 13 and I'm not sure it should make a difference even if he did. His pointing her out of the crowd, and later asking for an apology, is not unreasonable (even if the media was subsequently unduly harsh on a child for making a mistake).
He did an aggressive war dance towards the crowd. I don't think it was particularly aggressive (imaginary spear or otherwise) and I didn't see anyone ducking for cover. Maybe you think players should have more respect for the crowds and shouldn't interact negatively with them in any way. That's very high-minded and not unreasonable, but like many other complaints it's not an on-going thing, so why does he keep getting booed? And even then, does anyone have a problem with an Aboriginal war dance (traditional or not) being performed by an Aborigine during Indigenous Round as a goal celebration? If not, where else to direct it but opposition supporters? Nobody on the other team is going to stand politely in place to watch, they're going to get back into position for the bounce. Just direct it down the ground to nobody in particular? That would have to make for the weakest celebration (and the most timid war dance) I've seen.
He's a dirty player. Is he the dirtiest there ever was? I haven't heard anybody claim that he is, and with good reason, and yet he gets booed more than any other 'dirty' players have as has been pointed out many times. You might say that dirty players get booed all the time, and sure, a small minority of idiots will always boo a player no matter what they do. But so many people? And when Goodes isn't even doing anything vaguely unsportsmanlike? I've not seen anything like it before.
He was made Australian of the Year undeservedly. I don't think he was (take a look at the full list of previous winners), and I find it difficult to believe that anyone really cares, but even if you do get very passionate about the Australian of the Year, why take out your frustration on Goodes? He didn't ask for the award. Boo the selection committee.
It's just idiots, peer pressure and groupthink. I'm sure that plays a big part, but I'm not convinced that's all that's going on. So a few bad apples start up the boos and every week a good fraction of the stadium just gets caught up in it?
It's only because the media tells people not to do it. The media forgot about Adam Goodes about two weeks after the Carlton game, which was two months ago. Nobody was telling people last week not to boo anyone (unless you count this club's own campaign, which some people were calling a PR platitude funnily enough) and nobody was calling crowds racist either. This bad-boy reverse-psychology business might go some way to explaining the keyboard warriors on the main board the past few days/weeks, but not the people that have actually been booing.
It was only really the West Coast crowd, they're awful. People have been booing for a long time. Maybe the West Coast crowd was the worst in recent weeks but they're far from the only ones.
I'm not racist, I boo everyone equally. I don't know if you're racist or not, but you're definitely an arsehole. Congratulations.

Third and finally, let's talk about race. When people say this isn't a racist issue, it's almost always pointed out that other Aboriginal players don't cop it nearly as bad and the vast majority of people have nothing against dark-skinned people. Very true! And certainly that's a good thing. But allow me to make an observation - Australians get very touchy when non-whites go 'off-script'. Any time someone, especially but not necessarily an Aboriginal, starts talking about Australia and Australian society/culture as not necessarily as tolerant, multi-cultural and happy a place for everyone as we like to think, people can tend to get very defensive and dismissive. Shooting the messenger becomes the national past-time, in the media, in politics, in general polite society. Take a look at any debate about Islam, refugees or immigration and you'll see it, but especially when it comes to Aboriginals.

Whenever Adam Goodes' Australian of the Year award is brought up, complaints are always made about how he went on about Invasion Day and so on, and that people should just get over it. "It's not my fault" is the common refrain. I'm sorry, but you and I are the ongoing beneficiaries of the conquest of Aboriginal Australia, regardless of your views on the history of colonisation. Aboriginal people are not beneficiaries, and the majority of Aboriginal people live poorer lives now than their ancestors did and currently have the poorest health and wealth outcomes of any indigenous people living inside a developed nation. I'm not saying that as a white Australian you are personally responsible for that and nobody is, not even Adam Goodes, but nor does that mean we can just sit back and say it's someone else's problem, or worse, not really a problem at all, whenever an Aborigine brings it up. Nor is it good enough to say that it's Aboriginal people's problem; apart from the fact that this is not the dog-eat-dog attitude we apply to any of our other societal ills, this is not a mess that Aboriginal people brought upon themselves. Nobody chooses, for example, to be born into poverty.

Now Adam Goodes is known to be outspoken on matters of race in Australia, not just in regards to his Australian of the Year acceptance and the Aboriginal war dance, but also as a government spokesman and so on. It is my personal opinion that for many people, this adds another dimension to their opinion of Goodes, consciously or subconsciously. He's seen as "uppity", not knowing that his place is to play football and not guilt people into feeling bad. Whatever other (figurative) crimes he's committed (as I've listed above), they thereby become amplified as evidence against his good character and used to justify to slagging him off or, as we have seen, booing him incessantly for things other players are not. This is what people mean when they say the booing is racist. Not that it is done because he has dark skin, because obviously other people have not been targeted in the same way, but that his outspokenness about race and racism has made people more comfortable to level a punishment against him that does not fit the crime, and to treat him with an unfair double-standard. Or simply, that their harsh treatment of Goodes is either motivated or at least coloured by Goodes being an Aboriginal man who is critical on the topic of Aboriginal right and issues.

Now I've written a lot because I've had a lot to get off my chest. If anyone reads it all and disagrees with any or all of it, so be it, I hope at the very least you got something out of it other than that I'm a bleeding-heart leftie pinko ivory tower SJW (as Internet discussions tend to go). I'm not here to tell you you're a bad person just because you don't agree with me. But to be honest this whole situation has made me feel very world-weary and I'm honestly disappointed that people have not been more universally supportive of Goodes regardless of their personal opinions of him. And if I might make a request, I believe that some racist sentiment must be behind the ferocity and on-going nature of the booing, but if you disagree, please don't dismiss this whole thing by saying others have had it worse, or so-and-so was never recognised for what they had to face, or that you've had to live with worse discrimination. It isn't a suffering contest and one issue need not detract from another, present or past. Just try to keep an open mind.

What a load of s**t. I suffer depression. How dare you suggest Adam goodes does. God, that just makes me SO angry. What you have written makes me Sooooo angry. He doesn't suffer depression because people booed him. That's not how it goddamn works - it's a chemical imbalance for starters. You don't contract depression because you are booed! !!!!!!

 

[BEaston]

So many people have absolutely no idea what racism actually is... have seen it repeatedly sprouted that just because people aren't straight out saying "I hate blacks" or "Goodes is an ape" or whatever, they think it's not racism. Well sorry racism is a lot more subtle than your black and white (scuse the pun) definition of it. Unfortunately the people pushing these lines are just too damn dense to realise anything else. Talking in absolutes is about as much as their brain power can conjure. Racism as an issue is a lot more grey than black and white.

 

[BEaston]

What a load of s**t. I suffer depression. How dare you suggest Adam goodes does. God, that just makes me SO angry. What you have written makes me Sooooo angry. He doesn't suffer depression because people booed him. That's not how it goddamn works - it's a chemical imbalance for starters. You don't contract depression because you are booed! !!!!!!

How the fk do you know he doesn't?
Depression can start from many triggers. Bullying certainly one of them.

 

[NBates]

How you know he does?

 

[NBates]

Plus you don't suffer depression when it's convenient for you. You suffer it in good times and bad. Don't bother responding. I've read enough crap here.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

They'd be tougher than that for a start. I would instill in them self esteem. You brought up the kids bit, not me.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

What a load of s**t. I suffer depression. How dare you suggest Adam goodes does. God, that just makes me SO angry. What you have written makes me Sooooo angry. He doesn't suffer depression because people booed him. That's not how it goddamn works - it's a chemical imbalance for starters. You don't contract depression because you are booed! !!!!!!

Actually stress is one of the main culprits of getting depression...

 

[NBates]

Village of the damned - good movie

 

[NBates]

Actually stress is one of the main culprits of getting depression...

Well I wish it upon you not

 

[wian]

Plus you don't suffer depression when it's convenient for you. You suffer it in good times and bad. Don't bother responding. I've read enough crap here.

Exactly mate I agree with you 100% on this one... I personally think some around here have no idea sadly

I suppose the Collingwood supporters booing Lamumba today are all racist as well.. Its just nonsense ,and offensive to suggest this atually. Its like every white that has ever booed the likes of Goodes must a racist - This line of reasoning is very offensive, and like you , i wish the AFL would butt out of political issues - They are here to run a footy game, not conduct Q and A

 

[Fossie 32]

The interesting thing about this is that the reason I'm just a lurker on this forum is because this "98% of posters" don't seem to care about other people. I don't feel like I belong on Bigfooty at all but I fight past that to hang around the Dogs forum because I love footy. If you're proud of that being the case, more power to you. Literally.

98% sounds a bit high Sorry you feel like that

 

[Sights]

What a load of s**t. I suffer depression. How dare you suggest Adam goodes does. God, that just makes me SO angry. What you have written makes me Sooooo angry. He doesn't suffer depression because people booed him. That's not how it goddamn works - it's a chemical imbalance for starters. You don't contract depression because you are booed! !!!!!!

I'm not saying he does or doesn't suffer from depression, I'm not qualified to make that call. However, as others have pointed out, bullying and stress in the work place can lead to depression (if chronic and severe) or less serious but not less legitimate mental health issues. If he's had to take time off his work, that could well be the case. We shouldn't forget that he's a person as well as a footballer.

Besides, that paragraph was more concerned with people saying he's soft, can't hack it, or whatever, which I've seen a lot of. I've had friends and family make comments of that sort about people who definitely were/are depressed, it's common for people who don't understand how the mind warps when you're depressed and how damaging it can be. I intended it as a broader comment on people's attitudes, not directed at you (or anyone) specifically, and applicable beyond this one debate.

 

[yebiga]

Some articles and commentary on the essence of the hurt being felt and therefore why Goodes has chosen his course. If you do nothing else, I suggest you read and listen to Stan Grant, to gain a deeper understand of what it is to be Aboriginal.

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...des-feels-every-indigenous-person-has-felt-it (Stan Grant opinion piece)

http://www.abc.net.au/radio/programitem/pg4OGnnjoG?play=true (Stan Grant audio)

http://www.francisleach.com/speaking-frankly-blog/2015/7/26/off-to-the-racists (Francis Leach opinion piece)

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-30/tapp-booing-goodes-an-insidious-cancer/6659698 (Francis Leach on The Drum)

http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2015/s4284169.htm (Charlie King and Andrew Bolt debate)

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...-hang-my-head-in-despair-20150730-ginnob.html (Bob Murphy opinion piece)

There are third world problems, developing world problems, first world problems and there is this
Imaginary problems inflated by the pathologically bored