Administration - The AFL v NRL *Moderator Approved* - Rules in OP

[Gigantor]

but it also helps them negotiate with the tv networks a stronger deal for themselves given it's constantly very strong ratings, the AFL would love to have a ratings juggernaut like SoO.

It's only three games, and it disrupts a big chunk of the NRL season.

The AFL loves it.

While the SOO gets its 85k to a game, and ratings of 3 mill or whatever it might be (while disrupting the whole NRL season), the AFL continues to go about its business, amassing its normal quota of attendances and ratings for the year, and raking in more than double the annual revenue of the other football codes combined.

The AFL loves it.

 

[Gigantor]

I'm sure Dave Smith is left awake nights over the prospect of finding someone to take the rights to the games straitjacket.

He knows the NRL can only grow if they ditch SOO, but he's stuck with three SOO games per year, because of its "popularity", while a big chunk of the NRL season goes into absolute hibernation.

It's such a good idea, you'd swear the AFL came up with it (actually, now that you mention it.....)

 

[bigleague]

It's only three games, and it disrupts a big chunk of the NRL season.

The AFL loves it.

While the SOO gets its 85k to a game, and ratings of 3 mill or whatever it might be (while disrupting the whole NRL season), the AFL continues to go about its business, amassing its normal quota of attendances and ratings for the year, and raking in more than double the annual revenue of the other football codes combined.

The AFL loves it.

It's not even double the NRL revenue, yet alone that of all others combined.

The AFL would love having 4 grand final sized games every year and face the prospect of coming up with similar content if they are to get a significant increase in rights value in the next deal.

 

[bigleague]

He knows the NRL can only grow if they ditch SOO, but he's stuck with three SOO games per year, because of its "popularity", while a big chunk of the NRL season goes into absolute hibernation.

It's such a good idea, you'd swear the AFL came up with it (actually, now that you mention it.....)

On the contrary he recognises the strength of Origin to leverage the games growth in new markets and old ones. He gets 12m watching origin each year & 3 opportunities to convert people who have no interest into having a little interest in rugby league and build on it each year they are exposed to it, it's an incredibly powerful tool for the code. The AFL only get that opportunity once a year.

 

[Gigantor]

It's not even double the NRL revenue, yet alone that of all others combined.

The AFL would love having 4 grand final sized games every year and face the prospect of coming up with similar content if they are to get a significant increase in rights value in the next deal.

Not only double the revenue, it's 40% more than double the revenue.

 

[Gigantor]

On the contrary he recognises the strength of Origin to leverage the games growth in new markets and old ones. He gets 12m watching origin each year & 3 opportunities to convert people who have no interest into having a little interest in rugby league and build on it each year they are exposed to it, it's an incredibly powerful tool for the code. The AFL only get that opportunity once a year.

How is it leveraging growth if you disrupt the normal season for a couple of months and the extra people watching SOO have zero interest in week to week games?

Put it this way, with the MCG about to get 85k+ to watch an SOO game, how many decided to watch the Storm last night?

I don't know, but I'm guessing there has been no uplift from weeks of SOO hype.

 

[fabulousphil]

You would hope the RL boys will put on a good show, i seem to remember some time ago when a SOO match was played at the MCG the big crowd started chanting boring, boring, boring. ( 1994/5 ?)

Haven't watched it for years myself, not since the biff went out of it.

 

[Gigantor]

You would hope the RL boys will put on a good show, i seem to remember some time ago when a SOO match was played at the MCG the big crowd started chanting boring, boring, boring. ( 1994/5 ?)

Haven't watched it for years myself, not since the biff went out of it.

I heard someone talking about this game the other day, may have been Richard Hinds, big crowd but an absolute dud of a game. I guess that can happen with any sport.

 

[bigleague]

Not only double the revenue, it's 40% more than double the revenue.

No, it's not.

 

[bigleague]

How is it leveraging growth if you disrupt the normal season for a couple of months and the extra people watching SOO have zero interest in week to week games?

Put it this way, with the MCG about to get 85k+ to watch an SOO game, how many decided to watch the Storm last night?

I don't know, but I'm guessing there has been no uplift from weeks of SOO hype.

Exactly by the way I said it is, people who normally don't watch rugby league get exposed to it and some may then watch the odd NRL game, it's a foot in the door to engaging more fans.

 

[The_Wookie]

It's not even double the NRL revenue, yet alone that of all others combined.

The AFL would love having 4 grand final sized games every year and face the prospect of coming up with similar content if they are to get a significant increase in rights value in the next deal.

Its nowhere near double the revenue of the NRL, however while the AFL might love the idea of 4 grand final games, Im not so certain that they are willing to compromise the main competition for a few extra dollars when they make so much already.

Conversely, the NRL would love to get anywhere near the off field revenue the AFL has - its revenue increases last year are mostly based around increased ticket pricing at finals and origin. It might be close when it comes to tv rights, but the NRL are nowhere near the AFL off the field, not by a long way.

• Total AFL Revenue was $524,431,000 in 2014 (broadcast $248 million, non broadcast $276 million).
  
• Total NRL Revenue was $350,902,000 in 2014 (broadcast $225 million, non broadcast $125 million).
• Total ARU Revenue was $103,398,000 in 2014 (broadcast $26 million, non broadcast $77 million)
  
• Total FFA Revenue was $136,000,000 in 2014 (broadcast ~$35 million, non broadcast ~$101 million)
• All non AFL leagues combined: $590,300,000 in 2014 (broadcast $287 million, non broadcast $303 million)

Sources:

• 2014 AFL Annual Report
• 2014 NRL Annual Report
• 2014 ARU Annual Report
• "Football Federation makes a 7.3 million Profit" - Australian Financial Review, November 2014

 

[bigleague]

You would hope the RL boys will put on a good show, i seem to remember some time ago when a SOO match was played at the MCG the big crowd started chanting boring, boring, boring. ( 1994/5 ?)

Haven't watched it for years myself, not since the biff went out of it.

Would hope, but NSW seem intent on doing everything but playing football because they think they can't match Qld otherwise, terrible for the game if it's another boring nigglefest like game 2 last yr. seems like when the stakes get higher the tolerance for error becomes too much so no one is willing to pass the ball for fear of dropping it, particularly NSW.

 

[bigleague]

Its nowhere near double the revenue of the NRL, however while the AFL might love the idea of 4 grand final games, Im not so certain that they are willing to compromise the main competition for a few extra dollars when they make so much already.

Conversely, the NRL would love to get anywhere near the off field revenue the AFL has - its revenue increases last year are mostly based around increased ticket pricing at finals and origin. It might be close when it comes to tv rights, but the NRL are nowhere near the AFL off the field, not by a long way.

• Total AFL Revenue was $524,431,000 in 2014 (broadcast $248 million, non broadcast $276 million).
  
• Total NRL Revenue was $350,902,000 in 2014 (broadcast $225 million, non broadcast $125 million).
• Total ARU Revenue was $103,398,000 in 2014 (broadcast $26 million, non broadcast $77 million)
  
• Total FFA Revenue was $136,000,000 in 2014 (broadcast ~$35 million, non broadcast ~$101 million)
• All non AFL leagues combined: $590,300,000 in 2014 (broadcast $287 million, non broadcast $303 million)

Sources:

• 2014 AFL Annual Report
• 2014 NRL Annual Report
• 2014 ARU Annual Report
• "Football Federation makes a 7.3 million Profit" - Australian Financial Review, November 2014

Not debating that, they are getting their act together in that regard though, but still long way to go to bridging 100m gap in non broadcast revenue.

 

[The_Wookie]

Exactly by the way I said it is, people who normally don't watch rugby league get exposed to it and some may then watch the odd NRL game, it's a foot in the door to engaging more fans.

Except history shows that very few actually go on to watch league on a regular basis in Victoria. TV Ratings of 400k for Origin are not reflected in the remainder of the season when the average plumets to between 20-30k per game. A Crowd of 90,000 tonight will not be indicative either as next week the crowd will be lucky to top 15,000. Its a theatre event in the southern states, played midweek against no sporting competition, and of interest not so much because its rugby league, but because its an Origin event.

 

[The_Wookie]

Not debating that, they are getting their act together in that regard though, but still long way to go to bridging 100m gap in non broadcast revenue.

150 million gap - you can only jack ticket prices up so far. And the lowest sponsorship of the 4 professional football leagues.

The FFA's forecast sponsorship figure would take it past the NRL, which in 2014 posted sponsorship revenue of $27m, and the Australian Rugby Union ($28.7m). Both the ARU and NRL report to the calendar year.

Of the other major sporting codes, Cricket Australia and the AFL both generate in excess of $50m in sponsorship annually, while Tennis Australia brings in around $45m, Sponsorship News understands.

 

[bigleague]

Except history shows that very few actually go on to watch league on a regular basis in Victoria. TV Ratings of 400k for Origin are not reflected in the remainder of the season when the average plumets to between 20-30k per game. A Crowd of 90,000 tonight will not be indicative either as next week the crowd will be lucky to top 15,000. Its a theatre event in the southern states, played midweek against no sporting competition, and of interest not so much because its rugby league, but because its an Origin event.

Tomorrow night.
Does it? The Storm have a much stronger niche supporter base than they did a decade ago, I'm not trying to overstate it as if it's converting people in their droves, it never will, but it increases the awareness of rugby league in Victoria. It's an event, yes, but it's still rugby league and like the AFL and any other code any exposure is better than nothing.

Ratings in Melbourne this year are up off a low base, like the AFL in NSW & QLD it's about having a presence, no matter how small.

 

[bigleague]

150 million gap - you can only jack ticket prices up so far. And the lowest sponsorship of the 4 professional football leagues.

Yet still not as expensive as the AFL, the fact they have increased revenues off ticket prices shows that they were previously undervalued. Sponsorship was only moved from a completely outsourced model to under the NRL last year, they are going through a lot of structural changes from the News Corp era. They are growing, it's not going to get to the AFL levels over night after over a decade of commercial neglect, it will likely take over a decade to get to where the AFL are now with their non broadcast revenues.

 

[The_Wookie]

Tomorrow night.
Does it? The Storm have a much stronger niche supporter base than they did a decade ago, I'm not trying to overstate it as if it's converting people in their droves, it never will, but it increases the awareness of rugby league in Victoria. It's an event, yes, but it's still rugby league and like the AFL and any other code any exposure is better than nothing.

Ratings in Melbourne this year are up off a low base, like the AFL in NSW & QLD it's about having a presence, no matter how small.

Yes the record does show that few who watch Origin go on to watch regular NRL. Absolutely does.

A standard game this year averages 26k, and yes up from 21k. Origin I came in at 380k. Of an Origin audience just 7% will go on to watch league regularly this season. Last years Origin 1 was watched by 426k in Melbourne, season average of 19k watched league for the year - just 4.4% of the Origin audience.

Melbourne Storm crowds sit at 15,214 for the season, down on the league average of 15,538 - the lowest league crowd average for this time of the season since 2004. So whatever crowd rocks up tonight, you can be guaranteed it wont be remotely close to what turns up to the next Storm game or six.

Victorians have been well aware of league since the first one was held at the MCG with a then record 87,000 in attendance. The storm have been around for a while now too.

 

[The_Wookie]

Yet still not as expensive as the AFL, the fact they have increased revenues off ticket prices shows that they were previously undervalued. Sponsorship was only moved from a completely outsourced model to under the NRL last year, they are going through a lot of structural changes from the News Corp era. They are growing, it's not going to get to the AFL levels over night after over a decade of commercial neglect, it will likely take over a decade to get to where the AFL are now with their non broadcast revenues.

Not as expensive as non existent AFL events? Ok then. Id like to see a source on the NRL "completely outsourced" sponsorship model too.

 

[bigleague]

Yes the record does show that few who watch Origin go on to watch regular NRL. Absolutely does.

A standard game this year averages 26k, and yes up from 21k. Origin I came in at 380k. Of an Origin audience just 7% will go on to watch league regularly this season. Last years Origin 1 was watched by 426k in Melbourne, season average of 19k watched league for the year - just 4.4% of the Origin audience.

Melbourne Storm crowds sit at 15,214 for the season, down on the league average of 15,538 - the lowest league crowd average for this time of the season since 2004. So whatever crowd rocks up tonight, you can be guaranteed it wont be remotely close to what turns up to the next Storm game or six.

Victorians have been well aware of league since the first one was held at the MCG with a then record 87,000 in attendance. The storm have been around for a while now too.

exposure to any league is better than watching nothing, if they watch origin it's easier to watch the GF, whatever way you argue it rugby league is better off with origin than without it, both in non traditional markets and traditional markets. It's just a foot in the door for those who wouldn't normally watch the code, just as the AFL GF is for those who wouldn't normally watch AFL.

 

[bigleague]

Not as expensive as non existent AFL events? Ok then. Id like to see a source on the NRL "completely outsourced" sponsorship model too.

You quoted revenue that includes ticket prices for the GF, which is cheaper than the AFL GF.

Sponsorship grew again year on year...
The increase this year means we have overseen compound growth in sponsorship of
15% since 2012.
And, we are investing in new capability to drive results in this area by moving away
from a fully out-sourced model in 2015.

https://www.nrl.com/portals/nrl/RadEditor/Documents/2014-Business-Review-Presentation-final.pdf

 

[Gigantor]

Exactly by the way I said it is, people who normally don't watch rugby league get exposed to it and some may then watch the odd NRL game, it's a foot in the door to engaging more fans.

Absolutely bugger all go from watching SOO to regularly watching club games.

Certainly not enough to make up for a disrupted season.

Three key messages are sent to Australian sporting fans during origin time:

1. the regular season ain't worth s**t
2. SOO is the only type of league worth watching
3. it's a game played in two states.

How many went to watch the Storm game on Monday night?

 

[Rob]

Exactly by the way I said it is, people who normally don't watch rugby league get exposed to it and some may then watch the odd NRL game, it's a foot in the door to engaging more fans.

Is it though?
They'd obviously be quite mad if they scrapped it, but you can't really argue it detracts from the NRL. Crowds drop, TV ratings drop. It might actually take more fans away from the NRL than attract them. Origin rates pretty well in Melbourne, but clearly not many, if any of those people think to themselves 'Gee, this is great, better get along to a Storm game'. They might think 'better get along to the origin game at the MCG' though.

 

[bigleague]

Is it though?
They'd obviously be quite mad if they scrapped it, but you can't really argue it detracts from the NRL. Crowds drop, TV ratings drop. It might actually take more fans away from the NRL than attract them. Origin rates pretty well in Melbourne, but clearly not many, if any of those people think to themselves 'Gee, this is great, better get along to a Storm game'. They might think 'better get along to the origin game at the MCG' though.

People who don't normally watch rugby league are watching rugby league, by every metric it far away outweighs any negative impact on the NRL season. Whether you believe it has people engaging more with the code than they would previously is up to debate but it's pretty hard to grow the game if it gets no exposure, origin provides that three times a year. Just getting people a foot in the door to watch something they otherwise would have no interest in is in itself a powerful commodity. If they enjoy it they may be more open to it in the future. Ratings for the NRL season during origin series don't drop that much, I saw something on Twitter that suggested it was -1% on fox and -10% on FTA, bearable when you're getting nearly 12m watching an origin series during the same period.

 

[Aucklander]

People who don't normally watch rugby league are watching rugby league, by every metric it far away outweighs any negative impact on the NRL season. Whether you believe it has people engaging more with the code than they would previously is up to debate but it's pretty hard to grow the game if it gets no exposure, origin provides that three times a year. Just getting people a foot in the door to watch something they otherwise would have no interest in is in itself a powerful commodity. If they enjoy it they may be more open to it in the future. Ratings for the NRL season during origin series don't drop that much, I saw something on Twitter that suggested it was -1% on fox and -10% on FTA, bearable when you're getting nearly 12m watching an origin series during the same period.

You only have to check out this forum for the amount of interest Origin and the code gains by having it. Yea sure it's mostly negative which you'd expect, but here people are, most who only want to compare dick sizes, talking about it and of course the Origin thread on the RL forum gets lots of activity when the games come around.

Personally I'd rather have a 3 match test series now that the Kiwis are just about on level pegging, but the impact of Origin regardless of impact on the NRL season is huge and not just in Australia.