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AFL Origin. Victoria VS Barbarians
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It was a terrible game with players ducking out of contests and not tackling each other. Scoreline was over 140 for both sides if I recall correctly. SoO would only have a chance of working if it involves actual state teams. THe main attraction of NRL version is of the smaller state in Qld having the chance to stick it up their larger neighbour. WA and SA would most likely lose most often but still be competitive and they would actually care about winning...whereas if you put them in an Allies or Allstars type arrangement why would they care?
Even then though, nobody really cares about SoO, it's so much less important than any home and away match.
telsor
Hall of Famer
Doesn't change the fact that 3 teams were selected, and that was the 3rds. Francis Bourke for example, champion though he was, was fast approaching retirement in 1980.
Of course, this also highlights why another solution wouldn't work...
Vic produces more twice as many players as WA or SA, so Vic could, theoretically produce 2 teams that would be competitive with both these states at once and provide 2 good, close games. (and considering both states only really want to play Vic, that's all that matters, right?)
Except Vic losing either would lead to ill informed comments years later about how they 'beat Victoria'....Just like the comments about SOO now that seem to forget the massive 'injury parade' of Vic players before each game (inspired by their clubs who didn't want them to get injured in a 'meaningless' game).
It doesn't change the fact that ACT defeated a strong Victorian team, and i am not quite sure how that is ill informed.
As far as i can see the talent was spread across 3 teams, you are more than welcome to dissect the teams, do you even know what the teams were ?.
Blight, Kink, Lee, Ashman, Maclure, Dipper, Neagle, Bourke were all in the 3rds ?.
telsor
Hall of Famer
The implication that they beat Victoria is misleading. They beat the 3rds. If a cricket team beats the Prime Ministers XI, do we say they beat Australia?
Yes, in the 3rds.
The Blue Baggers
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They beat Victoria, that is quite clear and not misleading
It appears you have little knowledge of the history of the VFL and their players if you think Malcolm Blight, Francis Bourke, Ashman, Dipper, etc are thirds players.
Feel free, as i have stated, to compare that team to your so called A team, do you even know who was in that team ?.
If you are comparing then compare.
telsor
Hall of Famer
If I'm in a team that beats another clubs 3rds, I don't make it seem like I beat their 1sts...I say we beat their 3rds, so yeah, you're being misleading.
Actually, from the order the results are in the newpaper, they might have been the seconds (doesn't say much for QLD at the time if so). Then again, it might have just been the order they were played in or something equally naff.
Common sense says they weren't the firsts however...or are you suggesting Vic beat WA with a substandard team?
Who was in the other teams?
Well, Matthews, Bartlett, Flower, Raines, Dunne, Moore, Wilson, Watson, Templeton, Clarke, Grieg, Cloke & Breidis were playing WA at the same time...Not a bad lineup (just the bests & goalkickers).
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Pre-season 2014 should've hosted South Australia v Victoria, post-season 2016 hosting Victoria v South Australia at the MCG, with with the 2018 season opening with the winner of the game two years prior against WA at Burswood. Perthect.
telsor
Hall of Famer
Yeah, lets interrupt the pre season of a bunch of star players for the sake of a game most of them wont care about, and their clubs will actively encourage them not to play in.
RussellEbertHandball
Flick pass expert
Nope preseason is useless. You are picking players on reputation not form. Plus you interupt their preaseason. Guys who played in GF's and start in December aren't going to commit for a late February game. June long weekend or late May is the right time.
Glad you found the actual team, yet players like the ones i have mentioned, Blight, Bourke, Ashman, Dipper, etc would slip quite nicely into that team, and glad you have actually stated that it was the 2nds, because quite clearly it was, as in 1980 ACT football was quite a way ahead of QLD football ( the reverse of today).
It was a pretty good Victorian team, not withstanding after the game Allan Aylett stating it was the worst Victorian team ever, not because it was the worst in terms of skill and names, but because it lost to a relative team of no names, what he did not say is on that day the ACT team was prepared to sacrifice anything to win and time and time again put their bodies on the line.
The only game which truly works is Victoria v SA. During the 1990's, there were big concerns over the apparent lack of interest WA fans were showing in the games, and the WA matches in Melbourne didn't fire up the fans as the SA games did. If you had regular grudge matches between SA and Victoria, you've got your contest. The RL origin works beautifully because there are only two sides - the inclusion of NZ, as happened during Superleague, was a failure, and it's a comparable analogy, as NZ and WA are of roughly equal value to their respective codes...
This excludes everyone else, which is unfortunate, but a full on hatefest is a lot better than an exhibition played between one side who doesn't know who exactly they represent, and another state who's never given a f*** anyway unless the opponent was truly worth burying...
And even then, the grudge is borne out of the longstanding history of the two comps. With the current 15 year hiatus, we're losing a generation of fans who understand the relevance of the VFL v the SANFL at the time, which has now been lost because many fans weren't around before the AFL name change (and if that other thread is any indication, clearly the fans have moved on). This history has been diminished to the point I don't believe Origin to be sustainable...
This excludes everyone else, which is unfortunate, but a full on hatefest is a lot better than an exhibition played between one side who doesn't know who exactly they represent, and another state who's never given a f*** anyway unless the opponent was truly worth burying...
And even then, the grudge is borne out of the longstanding history of the two comps. With the current 15 year hiatus, we're losing a generation of fans who understand the relevance of the VFL v the SANFL at the time, which has now been lost because many fans weren't around before the AFL name change (and if that other thread is any indication, clearly the fans have moved on). This history has been diminished to the point I don't believe Origin to be sustainable...
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Yeah, as someone who was a kid during the halcyon days of Origin it reached levels approaching Qld vs NSW here in Adelaide. The anticipation was electric what with the core of the SA side consisting of the best the SANFL had to offer with the favourite sons who'd crossed the border coming back to lead the charge. Being weaned on anti-Victorian this, anti-Victorian that, you were conditioned to display an almost nationalistic fervour for the red guernsey, with the Big V representing the fascists over the wall, pillaging our league and blah blah blah. And Ted Whitten and Dermott Brereton played the role of supervillains to a tee.
Now?
It's completely diluted. The most worshipped players in SA currently are a couple of Victorians, a New South Welshman and an exciting young kid from Murray Bridge. It's all about the Crows and Port Adelaide now. And only your most foamymouthed old bastard from either SA camp could stomach barracking for icons of the other side against their own, regardless of which guernsey they wear on the day. And heaven forbid if there's a Tony Hall for the new generation. Unthinkable.
Leave it in the past where it belongs.
telsor
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It's called depth.
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If it is the national cricket team from Peru, you'll claim it. ACT victory over a second/third rate Victorian team is still a brilliant effort.
Would vics be happy to split into vic metro and vic country? If not, then don't combine all other states neither...
Soo is an old, Old concept, keep it in the past... We have all moved on.... My thoughts anyway...
Soo is an old, Old concept, keep it in the past... We have all moved on.... My thoughts anyway...
Just a side point...does Vic Metro mean just Melbourne? Or does it include Geelong also in the definition of metropolitan?
Albert Ross
Premiership Player
You'd use the same definitions as for the under-18 stuff. Geelong is country, and to even things up so is Dandenong.
Indeed it was, but the other point to consider is back then Victorian teams also included South Australians like Malcolm Blight, one of the greatest players ever, Micky Conlan, Micheal Roach etc etc.
So, the team would be stronger than if it was just a Victorian team.
Dandenong is country in under-18s also or just in your proposal?
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