Live Event AMA: Transgender Player Kirsti Miller

[Taylor]

I call rubbish on that.

You go walk up to a bunch of wild elephants and let me know how you go.

At what point when humans see a puppy do they get defensive, possibly charge and possibly injure/kill someone?




Or they think we are a threat.




Yes we are.

If you don't think you're some superior life form to a fly then that says a lot about your self esteem.

Yes. That claim came from a tumblr post.

So has this transculture.

 

[Masher]

I don't see why you have an issue with this.

Hahaha....its quite easy

He is the new breed of so called SJW who believe they know better than others
Blinded by their own ego and arrogance they are the new intolerant bigots

 

[Carringbush2010]

And Semenya could race against men, though wouldn’t qualify for the national team let alone win a medal. Therein is her issue.

Through dumb luck she’s born with a condition that makes her not quite the same as most other females, and that gives her a significant advantage in the sporting arena.

It’s unfortunate that she has no choice in the issue, but we limit who participates in women’s sport for a reason and - particularly at the elite level - there is no right to being able to compete at that level.

Well, yes she is in an unfortunate situation. Your post if I read correctly is in agreement with my view. Yes we limit who competes in women's comps for obvious reasons and we should not bend the rules to appease a minority group as noble as that might be.

 

[dockshark]

It's purest equality.

This is the first step to the discussion of what women's sport actually is. It's an exclusion division. They've intentionally excluded a group of people to leave the rest to compete with a chance to win.

It's not men and then everyone else.

That’s actually quite an interesting concept and have to say have never thought about it like that.

Is there other examples outside of sport relative?

 

[SunGirl89]

Well, yes she is in an unfortunate situation.

Very much this. I absolutely sympathise with Caster. She, and I have no problem referring to her as she, was born the way she was born. While most of us fall into one of two neat binary categories, that is not the case for every 1 of 8 billion or so people. And by and large, how you choose to identify will mostly have no impact on others, but sometimes it will. Sport which tends to be split into binary genders is one such problem area.

Is it fair on Caster to be forced to compete against men? I'd say no it is not.
Is it fair on XX-females to allow Caster to compete against them? Again, I'd say no it is not.

So where does that leave Caster? Given the very small number of people who identify as female but are not XX (such as Caster), I'd suggest we will never have any more than two gender categories in almost all sports. I only see three, maybe four options for Caster:
- give up playing sport
- surgically remove your alleged testes and then let's see what your testosterone level is
- take drugs to reduce your testosterone level
- failing any of the above, Caster be given a calculated time-penalty such that she starts a number of seconds after her competitors.

 

[Roobs321]

I feel for Caster, pretty crappy situation for her, and sad that a decade on she still has to deal with this disproportionate sporting body scrutiny. Imagine being told that the physical body you were were born with and are happy with has to be altered to suit a sporting body. Seems a slippery slope regarding unconventional body attributes if you ask me. My blood disorder arguably gave me a sporting advantage, yet no one ever seemed to care about that one...

Personally, when I transitioned a decade back (as someone who excelled against almost all of the males anyway), I decided to pull out of competitive sport altogether. At the time, it just felt like an unnecessarily contentious position to put yourself in, especially as an adult who seldom ever is forced to compete in gender-competitive sport anymore. It probably wouldn't have been a problem, but competitive sport is a more delicate area, justifiably worth debating (even though some on both sides might fail to engage in this critique with an open mind), and sadly might just be one of those areas of personal sacrifice. You are really putting yourself out there, inviting backlash out of the woodworks, because it is an area of life where facades of tolerance are challenged more directly, because there is skin in the game, placed in competition with perceivable attributes.

But I'm someone who likes a lot of cardio-type individual sports, whereas those who live and breathe team sports and other social sports, as well as those who see themselves as professional athletes, or just kids in school and after-school sport, it isn't as simple as that, they'll understandably want to fight for their rights, or when forced into participation in PE class and the like where they have little choice but to confront it. Trans issues seemed less divisive back then, the far right weren't really interested in it when it was less obscure (less threatening). Most of the bad things you heard about the topic were innocuous or unconscious. Labels like 'gender fluid' were barely a thing back then. It could be argued that society was more tolerant in many ways.

My personal decision doesn't really reflect my general position on trans people in competitive sport. If you concede on this matter, then you might as well enable prejudice to persevere. And I don't believe transgender people would seriously entertain the idea of a transgender competition. Trans for many isn't really a lifelong identification (like being gay for instance), it's often a brief transiting phase of visibility which down the line you might think about once a month. I haven't had much at all to do with trans people for several years, nor have kept up with the issues in the headlines (save in the Marriage debate where trans people seemed to be roped in and scapegoated as a straw man). Therefore, the idea of regressing or outing yourself by competing in a more cringe transgender division, hardly desirable is it. It might work for some or those that don't identify as either, but the majority of transgender people will understandably fight for the simplicity of participation, pull out altogether, or no one will be the wiser anyway.

Ideally, most transgender people in future generations would be aware and comfortable transitioning at an early age (and the sport dilemma would all but go away), but realistically post-puberty transitions will continue to be a permanent fixture.

 

[Ricketz]

Listen, you and your mates are welcome to explain why precisely the analogy is invalid but just so you know "I don't like that argument" does not count as said precise explanation.

Because the universe doesn't deal in absolutes, so an argument based on a true or false outcome is immediately invalid.

I would like to hear your counter argument as to why paedophilia is in any way similar to gender dysphoria?

 

[Topkent]

Because the universe doesn't deal in absolutes, so an argument based on a true or false outcome is immediately invalid.

I would like to hear your counter argument as to why paedophilia is in any way similar to gender dysphoria?

It's an analogy not a comparison. You and your mate are trying to take it down a path it isn't so you can scream how moral you are.

 

[Ricketz]

How is the emotion of happiness, sadness, depression, anxiety and grief not the same, they go through it just like us, it’s shown through there able actions, we can read it when they do it as they do with us as well. While done differently because of being a different species, it’s definitely the same thing

No, you don't know that. What drives their motivations may be nothing like ours. For example, a dog may be more sad that it was beaten to food by a rival than seeing a friend being beaten in a fight by a rival. Their motivations, experience and context is nothing like ours. We couldn't even process the visual imagery if their eyeballs were plugged into our brains. Why would their emotional experience be similar when all other inputs are not?

And I have only been specifically talking about dogs. But experience becomes more diverse for animals less oriented in human existence.

 

[Ricketz]

It's an analogy not a comparison. You and your mate are trying to take it down a path it isn't so you can scream how moral you are.

I'm just saying it is a s**t analogy. Come up with something more useful.

 

[Topkent]

I'm just saying it is a **** analogy. Come up with something more useful.

The analogy is apt.
It's the difference between what you think, as opposed to what you are allowed to act on with other people.

 

[Taylor]

Because the universe doesn't deal in absolutes, so an argument based on a true or false outcome is immediately invalid.

I would like to hear your counter argument as to why paedophilia is in any way similar to gender dysphoria?

There is a theory that transgenderism is actually a form of fetish. Should that be accurate then there is a direct connection.

Both would be fringe and deviant perversions of normality.

The pathology of a person with a gender identity condition is unknown. I won't be surprised to learn that the parts of the brain/mind that grasp sexual identity and orientation are adjacent and deviations around the edge result in the spectrum of preferences from heterosexual, homosexual, paedophilia, necrophilia and other outcomes.

I think there will eventually be a discovery that identifies the drive as distinct from the target being driven towards, that is you become aroused and then as your mind seeks to satiate the animal need it directs you towards what it has determined is your thing.

 

[Ricketz]

There is a theory that transgenderism is actually a form of fetish. Should that be accurate then there is a direct connection.

Both would be fringe and deviant perversions of normality.

The pathology of a person with a gender identity condition is unknown. I won't be surprised to learn that the parts of the brain/mind that grasp sexual identity and orientation are adjacent and deviations around the edge result in the spectrum of preferences from heterosexual, homosexual, paedophilia, necrophilia and other outcomes.

I think there will eventually be a discovery that identifies the drive as distinct from the target being driven towards, that is you become aroused and then as your mind seeks to satiate the animal need it directs you towards what it has determined is your thing.

Oh, * off with your definitions of fetish and normality, you shrivelled up prick.

I don't care what other people want to do with their lives, and neither should you.

So even if it is a fetish, you are just a tired old housewife gaining a small measure of relief from your own shallow existence by judging others from your shitty townhouse windowsill.

But if it is a genuine thing (whatever definition will satisfy you), then you should really have some serious questions about what sort of person you are to be trifling in these theories on a public forum.

 

[Taylor]

Oh, **** off with your definitions of fetish and normality, you shrivelled up prick.

I don't care what other people want to do with their lives, and neither should you.

So even if it is a fetish, you are just a tired old housewife gaining a small measure of relief from your own shallow existence by judging others from your shitty townhouse windowsill.

But if it is a genuine thing (whatever definition will satisfy you), then you should really have some serious questions about what sort of person you are to be trifling in these theories on a public forum.

Anything else you'd like to attack me personally over?

You wouldn't see judgement in what I said unless you're looking for it.

Understanding why and how is more important. There might come a time when the cause of non heterosexual, not accepted perversions and non binary gender conditions is discovered, along with a remedy. That will be a huge point for society. What would we do? Would you treat your child for a sexual identity or gender identity condition that had previously been accepted as part of the social fabric?

That is a great ethical exercise in discussion and if you're going to push to have those sorts of discussions closed off then you're the bad guy.

 

[Captain_Bender]

Am I the only one who gets some serious Buffalo Bill vibes from someone like Hannah Mouncey

 

[Ricketz]

Anything else you'd like to attack me personally over?

You wouldn't see judgement in what I said unless you're looking for it.

Tell me where there wasn't? Are you offended because your poorly worded argument that implied transgender people were fetishists was taken incorrectly?

This is a personal attack on your s**t commentary, and you deserve it. Don't blame me because I either see through your thinly veiled argument or you are too stupid to be able to elucidate it properly.

This isn't a game for some people.

 

[Taylor]

Tell me where there wasn't? Are you offended because your poorly worded argument that implied transgender people were fetishists was taken incorrectly?

This is a personal attack on your **** commentary, and you deserve it. Don't blame me because I either see through your thinly veiled argument or you are too stupid to be able to elucidate it properly.

This isn't a game for some people.

I edited and expanded my reply to your previous post.

Good for you though for fighting the good fight against people who aren't actually fighting you.

You're a true hero.

You've assumed my position on this very wrong.

 

[Ricketz]

I edited and expanded my reply to your previous post.

Good for you though for fighting the good fight against people who aren't actually fighting you.

You're a true hero.

You've assumed my position on this very wrong.

No, I assumed nothing - your post still champions the theory of transgenderism being a fetish.

Own your bigotry instead of hiding behind mealy mouthed internet words.

 

[Taylor]

Tell me where there wasn't? Are you offended because your poorly worded argument that implied transgender people were fetishists was taken incorrectly?

You're offended because you project your own negative reaction to paedophilia into the discussion when a non standard sexual identity like paedophilia is spoken about with other non standard sexual identities like homosexuality and in this case transgenderism should that indeed be a similar thing.

Paedophilia and homosexuality absolutely can be compared. They are both sexual compulsions different to the norm that those living with claim they were born with, it's not chosen.

I understand it's uncomfortable for them to be spoken of together like that because one is very vile when acted on, but that doesn't change the reality of someone with those circumstances would say they are born that way.

I expect the discovery of the cause and then treatment of paedophilia will map out the rest of the sexual spectrum

 

[Taylor]

The earlier statement, "Humans are animals", is very simplistic.
Be careful not to make sweeping statements.
Animals cannot construct a civilisation of arts and culture.

I believe that human history has been full of creations of ours to give our lives significance, ranging from gods who take interest in us to self congratulatory placing of humanity at the top of the pyramid of known life.

The arrogance of humanity that it believes itself above other animal life because it can do slightly more than them could well be our sorest point should a much more advanced life come to earth and treat us no different than other primates.

 

[Taylor]

No, I assumed nothing - your post still champions the theory of transgenderism being a fetish.

Own your bigotry instead of hiding behind mealy mouthed internet words.

Are fetishes derogatory? Does it diminish someone if they live out their lives that way?

 

[RFCGloryJC]

The word "fetish" has a negative connotation.
Some youths genuinely believe, in adolescence, they should transition.
Their needs need to be addressed, they can receive clinical professional help, as they should.
Each case should be regarded on its own merits.
Some people would undergo surgery, while others would find fulfilment by merely wearing transgender clothing.
As I wrote earlier, it disproves the catch-all "theory" of evolution.
I see, near my home, two men who regularly wear dresses, they are treated with respect.

 

[Taylor]

The word "fetish" has a negative connotation

It doesn't to me, which is probably the cause of all thing angst.

People just 'are' to me.

 

[Ricketz]

The analogy is apt.
It's the difference between what you think, as opposed to what you are allowed to act on with other people.

No, it is not apt. It is a dumb analogy. Get a better one that doesn't rely on some artificial either/or premise that you have to define.

 

[RFCGloryJC]

There are different categories of transgender.
Some youths are passionate to undergo surgery, while others find fulfilment and identify as transgender by merely wearing clothing.
In general I would think the word fetish in relation to transgender should not be used because it implies some sort of unreasonable fixation, that is all.
Transgender is not morally wrong whereas paedophilia is.
I would classify paedophilia as a fetish, if that makes sense.