Opinion Are you happy to have a new coach?

[Miguel Sanchez]

Jesus wept.

 

[Snortle]

So what your saying is a rookie coach in his first year should be outperforming our previous coach who got us a to a flag and quite a few finals?

Seriously people need to be PATIENT!...How can you say Suma would be doing any better? He was rejected by 3 teams for the main gig. Give Simpson 2 years to put his stamp on the list and see what he can do.

Did I say outperform?? I said there's nothing he has done that has stood out as being better than the previous coach.

Name 1 thing you think he is doing better?

 

[bombard]

Did I say outperform?? I said there's nothing he has done that has stood out as being better than the previous coach.

Name 1 thing you think he is doing better?

- Marked improvement in quite a few players that were until this year much maligned by the board. Brown being top of that list - but also Rosa, arguably Priddis (debate of Priddis aside).

- Showing a willingness to improvise when plan A isn't working. A superior game-day coach even in this early into his tenure.

- Showing more inclination to challenge the blokes to play to their roles - dropping blokes for underperformance that NEVER would have been subject to that sort of scrutiny under Woosh.

I loved Woosh, but to say that Simmo isn't giving us something new (despite not even having a trade period with us) is tinfoil hat stuff.

 

[Snortle]

- Marked improvement in quite a few players that were until this year much maligned by the board. Brown being top of that list - but also Rosa, arguably Priddis (debate of Priddis aside).

- Showing a willingness to improvise when plan A isn't working. A superior game-day coach even in this early into his tenure.

- Showing more inclination to challenge the blokes to play to their roles - dropping blokes for underperformance that NEVER would have been subject to that sort of scrutiny under Woosh.

I loved Woosh, but to say that Simmo isn't giving us something new (despite not even having a trade period with us) is tinfoil hat stuff.

1. WhaaaA???? Player improvement as subtle (and arguable) as you point out cannot be attributed to Simpson???

2. Great game day coach??? He's made moves that have clearly LOST GAMES. There's no way you could say he's better than Woosha as a game day coach - unless you're simply listening to what others have attributed to him with NO EVIDENCE at all.

3. So Woosh never scrutinized players??? WTF are you serious? There's plenty of talent not getting games because he is refusing to drop his favourites who are performing on an average level.

I can't take your comments seriously. Stop clutching at straws. If he's outperforming a previous coach it shouldn't be so vague as you're making it out to be.

You want an example of a coach outperforming the previous coach? PAUL ROOS.

 

[dajesmac]

There's nothing that Simpson has done this year that I could clearly say he has done better than Woosha.

I'm all for giving a guy a go, but I can't point to any example of him outperforming John.

Sadly, if he is no good as a coach, the eagles board will suffer with him for 3 seasons before making a change.

Right now, I'd gladly swap him for several others who are wanting a senior coaching position - starting with Sumich.

I think he is insipid, uninspiring and speaks a lot of words without saying anything.

What? How is this 'all for giving a guy a go'?

You had a reasonable point until this.

 

[bombard]

1. WhaaaA???? Player improvement as subtle (and arguable) as you point out cannot be attributed to Simpson???

2. Great game day coach??? He's made moves that have clearly LOST GAMES. There's no way you could say he's better than Woosha as a game day coach - unless you're simply listening to what others have attributed to him with NO EVIDENCE at all.

3. So Woosh never scrutinized players??? WTF are you serious? There's plenty of talent not getting games because he is refusing to drop his favourites who are performing on an average level.

I can't take your comments seriously. Stop clutching at straws. If he's outperforming a previous coach it shouldn't be so vague as you're making it out to be.

You want an example of a coach outperforming the previous coach? PAUL ROOS.

Disproportionate post is disproportionate!

Seeing as this post resembles the scene when all those dudes' faces melt off after someone opens the Ark of the Covenant, I'm going to be fairly circumspect in my reply.

You're prepared to condemn a bloke with 0 trade periods, most of one pre-season and two thirds of an actual season with a list he's had no hand in shaping. Even Paul Roos had to start somewhere. I like what I'm hearing from Simmo in conferences about the team's problems, and I'm prepared to give him a chance.

Where is this great pool of talent missing games in our depth? You want to throw Karpany to the wolves?

 

[INSANE]

On the trade/draft/delist/supermegathread/too soon board there are people who want half the bloody team cut which means they think the list is s**t. Then you come here and people want a rookie coach to be as good or better than a very experienced coach in Worsfold. How can he with the list of players at his disposal?

That example of a new coach outperforming the old one is stupid. Roos had about 10 years experience as head coach and took over from Neeld who was in his second year iirc, what would you expect?

 

[flamingEMBERS]

On the trade/draft/delist/supermegathread/too soon board there are people who want half the bloody team cut which means they think the list is s**t. Then you come here and people want a rookie coach to be as good or better than a very experienced coach in Worsfold. How can he with the list of players at his disposal?

That example of a new coach outperforming the old one is stupid. Roos had about 10 years experience as head coach and took over from Neeld who was in his second year iirc, what would you expect?

Roos also bought in some players that didn't have the mental scars form Melbourne.

 

[LordHaart]

Even if Woosh would have been a better coach than Simpson this year, fact is that Woosha was on his way out anyway and Simpson will only improve.

Sort of reminds you of a similar situation where one fantastic but older ruckman was taking game time away from a promising younger player who would otherwise not get the same development opportunity in our side...

 

[Eastern Rangers]

1. WhaaaA???? Player improvement as subtle (and arguable) as you point out cannot be attributed to Simpson???

2. Great game day coach??? He's made moves that have clearly LOST GAMES. There's no way you could say he's better than Woosha as a game day coach - unless you're simply listening to what others have attributed to him with NO EVIDENCE at all.

3. So Woosh never scrutinized players??? WTF are you serious? There's plenty of talent not getting games because he is refusing to drop his favourites who are performing on an average level.

I can't take your comments seriously. Stop clutching at straws. If he's outperforming a previous coach it shouldn't be so vague as you're making it out to be.

You want an example of a coach outperforming the previous coach? PAUL ROOS.

Scenario 1. West Coast - Current longest serving (premiership winning) coach in the AFL shaped the vast majority of the list, influenced player recruitment and drafting, player development, playing style, leadership group, structures and game plan for what was a generation steps down after taking West Coast deep into the finals in the two years prior to his retirement.

Woosha had shaped the list and extracted every ounce of talent it had to get it to the finals. Simpson comes in after having no say in recruitment and list management decisions and is asked to impose his wants and needs on another coaches team.

Woosha left because modern football had pasted him by in some respects, he was tactically reactive to other clubs and he had a negative effect on the quality of our list in later years holding onto the wrong players for too long on repeated occasions.

Scenario 2. Melbourne - Current coach sacked after disastrous two years at a club already considered the basket case, previous coach was sacked after failing to turn the clubs performance around. Roos makes some big recruitment moves to fix weaknesses on the list and turns them into a more competitive unit.

Roos had all the improvement in the world to find and he found a lot, such a scenario does in no way compare to what is happening at West Coast. I guess you are of a firm belief that West Coast are a genuine top end side, when in reality we had become rather antiquated on and off the field. Simpson is teaching seniors how to use computers at the moment and it's a slow task.

I don't want a pure Hawthorn brand of football, i'd hope for greater emphasis on the contested ball than they have built into their game plan and their recruiting decisions. But emphasis on skill, speed and ball retention is an absolute essential part of the game that every side must have and parts that Woosha neglected.

 

[Snortle]

Disproportionate post is disproportionate!

Seeing as this post resembles the scene when all those dudes' faces melt off after someone opens the Ark of the Covenant, I'm going to be fairly circumspect in my reply.

You're prepared to condemn a bloke with 0 trade periods, most of one pre-season and two thirds of an actual season with a list he's had no hand in shaping. Even Paul Roos had to start somewhere. I like what I'm hearing from Simmo in conferences about the team's problems, and I'm prepared to give him a chance.

Where is this great pool of talent missing games in our depth? You want to throw Karpany to the wolves?

Actually NO. I was just asking for someone to point out how he is an improvement from our previous coach...

 

[Snortle]

On the trade/draft/delist/supermegathread/too soon board there are people who want half the bloody team cut which means they think the list is s**t. Then you come here and people want a rookie coach to be as good or better than a very experienced coach in Worsfold. How can he with the list of players at his disposal?

Erm, let me get this right. You're saying that a better coach can't do better than a worse coach if he uses the same players?

WHAAA???

 

[Snortle]

What? How is this 'all for giving a guy a go'?

You had a reasonable point until this.

I mean, I'm all for giving an untried bloke a go - but he has to step up and show something. Do you think he has so far? If so, what?

 

[Galileo9]

Scenario 1. West Coast - Current longest serving (premiership winning) coach in the AFL shaped the vast majority of the list, influenced player recruitment and drafting, player development, playing style, leadership group, structures and game plan for what was a generation steps down after taking West Coast deep into the finals in the two years prior to his retirement.

Woosha had shaped the list and extracted every ounce of talent it had to get it to the finals. Simpson comes in after having no say in recruitment and list management decisions and is asked to impose his wants and needs on another coaches team.

Woosha left because modern football had pasted him by in some respects, he was tactically reactive to other clubs and he had a negative effect on the quality of our list in later years holding onto the wrong players for too long on repeated occasions.

Scenario 2. Melbourne - Current coach sacked after disastrous two years at a club already considered the basket case, previous coach was sacked after failing to turn the clubs performance around. Roos makes some big recruitment moves to fix weaknesses on the list and turns them into a more competitive unit.

Roos had all the improvement in the world to find and he found a lot, such a scenario does in no way compare to what is happening at West Coast. I guess you are of a firm belief that West Coast are a genuine top end side, when in reality we had become rather antiquated on and off the field. Simpson is teaching seniors how to use computers at the moment and it's a slow task.

I don't want a pure Hawthorn brand of football, i'd hope for greater emphasis on the contested ball than they have built into their game plan and their recruiting decisions. But emphasis on skill, speed and ball retention is an absolute essential part of the game that every side must have and parts that Woosha neglected.

speak for yourself id prefer anything to what we are getting at moment. boring and predictable very hard to get excited. even when we win, its a "meh".

on the other hand, i wouldn't mind the geelong brand. then we can have our own highway->West Coast Highway.

 

[Snortle]

Scenario 1. West Coast - Current longest serving (premiership winning) coach in the AFL shaped the vast majority of the list, influenced player recruitment and drafting, player development, playing style, leadership group, structures and game plan for what was a generation steps down after taking West Coast deep into the finals in the two years prior to his retirement.

Woosha had shaped the list and extracted every ounce of talent it had to get it to the finals. Simpson comes in after having no say in recruitment and list management decisions and is asked to impose his wants and needs on another coaches team.

Woosha left because modern football had pasted him by in some respects, he was tactically reactive to other clubs and he had a negative effect on the quality of our list in later years holding onto the wrong players for too long on repeated occasions.

Scenario 2. Melbourne - Current coach sacked after disastrous two years at a club already considered the basket case, previous coach was sacked after failing to turn the clubs performance around. Roos makes some big recruitment moves to fix weaknesses on the list and turns them into a more competitive unit.

Roos had all the improvement in the world to find and he found a lot, such a scenario does in no way compare to what is happening at West Coast. I guess you are of a firm belief that West Coast are a genuine top end side, when in reality we had become rather antiquated on and off the field. Simpson is teaching seniors how to use computers at the moment and it's a slow task.

I don't want a pure Hawthorn brand of football, i'd hope for greater emphasis on the contested ball than they have built into their game plan and their recruiting decisions. But emphasis on skill, speed and ball retention is an absolute essential part of the game that every side must have and parts that Woosha neglected.

So based on the above, how many years will you give him before making judgement on his performance?

 

[dajesmac]

I mean, I'm all for giving an untried bloke a go - but he has to step up and show something. Do you think he has so far? If so, what?

It's hard to gauge - it's far too early. Even the best coaches will struggle to get their team to adapt to a new gameplan within the first 12 months. Next year is a bigger year for Simpson. I also don't think he's done much too wrong other than often go too tall. But Woosh did that too. You can't argue we've gone backwards. I'm prepared to give him a bit more time than you are it seems.

For what it's worth, I'm a huge supporter of Woosh and was a bit heart broken he decided to call it quits.

 

[bombard]

It's hard to gauge - it's far too early. Even the best coaches will struggle to get their team to adapt to a new gameplan within the first 12 months. Next year is a bigger year for Simpson. I also don't think he's done much too wrong other than often go too tall. But Woosh did that too. You can't argue we've gone backwards. I'm prepared to give him a bit more time than you are it seems.

For what it's worth, I'm a huge supporter of Woosh and was a bit heart broken he decided to call it quits.

that can't be said enough in this debate - honestly to some extent we're learning what a "gameplan" even is in the modern footy setting. I loved Woosha, and continue to do so - but to say the man had a clear tactical vision just isn't true. Learning how to understand - and stick to - a set system of tactics is going to take longer than one season.

 

[INSANE]

Erm, let me get this right. You're saying that a better coach can't do better than a worse coach if he uses the same players?

WHAAA???

I was trying to say, some people are saying the list we have is s**t AS WELL as saying Simpson is no good. Worsfold helped build this list that many are saying is s**t, and a rookie coach is the one copping it.

He is new, still learning as he goes (as a player does) and I think he is still trying to find out what a lot of the players can and can't do. Seems to be a lot of trying new things with players, so he can find out who can best do a role in the team he will make his own in the future. This year was always going to be about him trying to make his own team, not a continuation of Worsfolds (which was clearly stagnating).

 

[domsheed]

Adam Simpson is a marvellous coach give him time to show the club what hes got has had a bad luck with inguries etc give him time I think he will prove to us next year

 

[ndot]

the "but it's woosha's list" excuse is wearing very thin.

if simpson doesn't start producing results by midway through next year, our proud club will (and should) be seriously reconsidering his position.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

the "but it's woosha's list" excuse is wearing very thin.

if simpson doesn't start producing results by midway through next year, our proud club will (and should) be seriously reconsidering his position.

You mean like results better than Judge's first year?

Or like getting Gaff and Darling to perform statistically better than 2013?

Because they're both things you've criticised him for not doing, when in fact he has.

 

[ndot]

You mean like results better than Judge's first year?

Or like getting Gaff and Darling to perform statistically better than 2013?

Because they're both things you've criticised him for not doing, when in fact he has.

i mean results like.... hmmm, winning games?

i'm glad you brought up the judge analogy because it's very valid at the point in simspon's tenure. if the eagles can't get up for coxy tonight, it would be very hard to argue that simspon has fared any better than judge did in his first year.

 

[bombard]

the "but it's woosha's list" excuse is wearing very thin.

if simpson doesn't start producing results by midway through next year, our proud club will (and should) be seriously reconsidering his position.

How is this wearing thin in the least? He hasn't a single opportunity to change the list.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

i mean results like.... hmmm, winning games?

i'm glad you brought up the judge analogy because it's very valid at the point in simspon's tenure. if the eagles can't get up for coxy tonight, it would be very hard to argue that simspon has fared any better than judge did in his first year.

It would be very hard to argue that, if you were prevented from introducing facts into the argument.

If the side "can't get up for coxy tonight", then we'll be 7-10 and in 11th place, with one loss over 10 goals.

At the same point in 2000 we were 6-1-10 and in 12th place (out of 16), and had lost six games by more than 10 goals. And Judge inherited a side that played finals the previous season, while Simpson inherited one that finished bottom six.

Wow, that was tough to argue.

 

[ndot]

You mean like results better than Judge's first year?

Or like getting Gaff and Darling to perform statistically better than 2013?

Because they're both things you've criticised him for not doing, when in fact he has.

thanks for hyperlinking to your posts that stating i am wrong, instead of actual evidence that i am

It would be very hard to argue that, if you were prevented from introducing facts into the argument.

If the side "can't get up for coxy tonight", then we'll be 7-10 and in 11th place, with one loss over 10 goals.

At the same point in 2000 we were 6-1-10 and in 12th place (out of 16), and had lost six games by more than 10 goals. And Judge inherited a side that played finals the previous season, while Simpson inherited one that finished bottom six.

Wow, that was tough to argue.

so simpson is one ladder position better than judge? glad we're in good hands