Moved Thread Aus: 'Sanctions!' Putin: 'Okay, sanctions.' Aus: 'Waaaaaah'

[awaremind]

It's a complete bs myth that the Ukranian government is run by Neo Nazis:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gregsat...n-press-is-getting-terribly-wrong-in-ukraine/

It's the same government that worked under Yanukovych before that deposed him because of his corrupt ways and selling out the country to the Russians. Many of the leaders are Jewish!!!

It is all Russian propaganda that is telling you that Ukraine is being run by Neo Nazis. Desperately poor attempt by Putin to retain control of Ukraine who he considers as territory of his own.

Russia needs to respect Ukraine's sovereignty. Russia does have interests in Ukraine but is not going the right way about pursuing them and as a direct result of this Russia has armed rebels who have directly killed innocent Australian civilians. That's why we are involved.

Real evidence or GTFO. Kolomoisky is more powerful than any politician in Ukraine, he is sponsoring the clearly neo-nazi Azov battalion, (as well as several other neo-Nazi militias) which proudly wears the SS insignia "Wolf -Hook" as its emblem, and likes to be seen doing Hitler style salutes.

 

[madmug]

It's a complete bs myth that the Ukranian government is run by Neo Nazis:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gregsat...n-press-is-getting-terribly-wrong-in-ukraine/

It's the same government that worked under Yanukovych before that deposed him because of his corrupt ways and selling out the country to the Russians. Many of the leaders are Jewish!!!

It is all Russian propaganda that is telling you that Ukraine is being run by Neo Nazis. Desperately poor attempt by Putin to retain control of Ukraine who he considers as territory of his own.

Russia needs to respect Ukraine's sovereignty. Russia does have interests in Ukraine but is not going the right way about pursuing them and as a direct result of this Russia has armed rebels who have directly killed innocent Australian civilians. That's why we are involved.

Russians have always had concerns about the 'buffer zone' states on their western boarder. Napoleon, The Kaiser & Hitler have kept that area in their national psyche for 200 years.
That doesnt make all this Russian 'nationalism' right, but perhaps more understandable from a geopolitical point of view. We should consider that before wading into something we have no control over. All this chest beating has done is cost our rural exports about $1/2Billion, all for no real result.

 

[sd26]

I hope this is a temporary aberration, caused by the Australian deaths and we will shortly stick our noses out of this. Governments that use international sabre-rattling to prop up domestic polices are very dangerous for everybody.

Unfortunately we didn't pull our heads in and have sabre-rattled.

Moscow slams Australian accusations of Russia’s responsibility for Ukrainian crisis

Quote

“They keep making absurd statements that the humanitarian convoy to help civilians in the south-east of Ukraine can be used as a pretext for Russia’s ‘armed invasion’ of the neighbouring country,” the ministry said.

“Australian Foreign Minister Julie Bishop has gone farther than others in making irresponsible innuendoes against our country even though one would think that her position presupposes building bridges between countries, not destroying them,” the ministry said.

End Quote

http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/744815

 

[MightyPies1]

Unfortunately we didn't pull our heads in and have sabre-rattled.

Moscow slams Australian accusations of Russia’s responsibility for Ukrainian crisis

Quote

“They keep making absurd statements that the humanitarian convoy to help civilians in the south-east of Ukraine can be used as a pretext for Russia’s ‘armed invasion’ of the neighbouring country,” the ministry said.

“Australian Foreign Minister Julie Bishop has gone farther than others in making irresponsible innuendoes against our country even though one would think that her position presupposes building bridges between countries, not destroying them,” the ministry said.

End Quote

http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/744815

“They keep making absurd statements that the humanitarian convoy to help civilians in the south-east of Ukraine can be used as a pretext for Russia’s ‘armed invasion’ of the neighbouring country,” the ministry said.

LOL I was about to quote this part it really made me LOL. Freakin Liberals grandstanding. They have annoyed so many reasonable thinking Australians it's time for Russians to get a taste of it now.

 

[Xsess]

I see how this goes. His excellency Mr Putin is a nice man who isn't supporting pro Russian seperatists engaging in war in the Ukraine. He's not interested in the Ukraine at all!! And heavens forbid anyone drawing the conclusion that Russian backed forces shot down a civilian aircraft using Russian supplied weapons. This is a spurious and stupid claim based purely on coincidence. Its coincidence that satellite images show rocket launcher (sans rockets of course) re-entering Russia. Total coincidence that pro Russian fighters immediately took control of the crash site, stripping it of evidence, threatening investigators and planting mines all around it. Tony Abbott should butt right out, what an idiot to draw any connection to these events and Russia...

 

[MightyPies1]

I see how this goes. His excellency Mr Putin is a nice man who isn't supporting pro Russian seperatists engaging in war in the Ukraine. He's not interested in the Ukraine at all!! And heavens forbid anyone drawing the conclusion that Russian backed forces shot down a civilian aircraft using Russian supplied weapons. This is a spurious and stupid claim based purely on coincidence. Its coincidence that satellite images show rocket launcher (sans rockets of course) re-entering Russia. Total coincidence that pro Russian fighters immediately took control of the crash site, stripping it of evidence, threatening investigators and planting mines all around it. Tony Abbott should butt right out, what an idiot to draw any connection to these events and Russia...

Is this in response to my post above?

 

[madmug]

I see how this goes. His excellency Mr Putin is a nice man who isn't supporting pro Russian seperatists engaging in war in the Ukraine. He's not interested in the Ukraine at all!! And heavens forbid anyone drawing the conclusion that Russian backed forces shot down a civilian aircraft using Russian supplied weapons. This is a spurious and stupid claim based purely on coincidence. Its coincidence that satellite images show rocket launcher (sans rockets of course) re-entering Russia. Total coincidence that pro Russian fighters immediately took control of the crash site, stripping it of evidence, threatening investigators and planting mines all around it. Tony Abbott should butt right out, what an idiot to draw any connection to these events and Russia...

Thats it? A rant?
A bit of thought please. No one is on Russia's side in this. but the MM banging the blame drum before we had any proof & before we had gained any access to claim all the bodies back was just DUMB.
Even Winston Churchill who hated Stalin could see the geopolitics way clearer than the DUMB USA. At least he knew to STFU & work with Stalin to achieve a more important goal.
No. Not our PM, lets all 'show off' to the World, thats far more important than resolving the situation for the families who have lost loved ones. Also far more important than $1/2billion in rural exports.

 

[sd26]

I see how this goes. His excellency Mr Putin is a nice man who isn't supporting pro Russian seperatists engaging in war in the Ukraine. He's not interested in the Ukraine at all!! And heavens forbid anyone drawing the conclusion that Russian backed forces shot down a civilian aircraft using Russian supplied weapons. This is a spurious and stupid claim based purely on coincidence. Its coincidence that satellite images show rocket launcher (sans rockets of course) re-entering Russia. Total coincidence that pro Russian fighters immediately took control of the crash site, stripping it of evidence, threatening investigators and planting mines all around it. Tony Abbott should butt right out, what an idiot to draw any connection to these events and Russia...

Ah.. the satellite images such conclusive proof.

http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/743266

Quote

“Therefore, true makers of these satellite images do not dare to make them public under their names not to undermine the existing myth about the omnipotence of their space intelligence,” Defense Ministry said at its website. The ministry affirmed that “Ukrainian side did not definitely” make these satellite images.
...

Commenting on data about alleged Russian military hardware in Ukraine and signs of launches from multiple launch rocket systems Grad, military officials noted that the terrain near settlements of Marinovka, Kozhevnya and Grigoryevka showed on the images “has been under control of Ukrainian military forces for a long time.”

End Quote

 

[Norwegian Blue]

http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/743266

You realise Tass is the state owned official Russian news outlet, right? It'll do nothing but parrot the Putin line.

In other news, The Australian newspaper has today declared Rupert Murdoch a wonderful human being.

 

[sd26]

You realise Tass is the state owned official Russian news outlet, right? It'll do nothing but parrot the Putin line.

In other news, The Australian newspaper has today declared Rupert Murdoch a wonderful human being.

Yes of course. I also love watching TV Zvezda (Star TV) run by the Russian Ministry of Defence.

 

[awaremind]

Yes of course. I also love watching TV Zvezda (Star TV) run by the Russian Ministry of Defence.

Russian media is great -nothing as satisfying as viewing the mangled bodies of your enemies. Or interviewing them if they are only wounded.

 

[00Stinger]

I'm confused...What does the OP think should be done against countries that (via proxies) invade their neighbors and shoot down passenger planes?

Of is it just another case of 'Abbott does it, therefore it's bad'?

So why don't we impose sanctions on the USA for invading countries?

 

[Gough]

The assumption that if Abbott does it, it's bad has some validity as well.

 

[Xsess]

The assumption that if Abbott does it, it's bad has some validity as well.

No it doesn't.

 

[Zidane98]

So why don't we impose sanctions on the USA for invading countries?

We are only involved with Russia because separatists backed by Russia have killed 37 Australians as a direct result. Don't know why any reasonably minded person would think sanctions are inappropriate in that situation. We wouldn't be involved if Australian lives were not lost.

 

[sd26]

Russian media is great -nothing as satisfying as viewing the mangled bodies of your enemies. Or interviewing them if they are only wounded.

We are only involved with Russia because separatists backed by Russia have killed 37 Australians as a direct result. Don't know why any reasonably minded person would think sanctions are inappropriate in that situation. We wouldn't be involved if Australian lives were not lost.

Reasonably minded people would demand some credible evidence and an inquiry first before sanctioning anyone. What is reasonable is sanctioning a country that placed sanctions on your country and made ludicrous accusations without either evidence or an inquiry.

 

[Zidane98]

Credible evidence lol. Phone intercepts; pictures of missile unit being transported through the area. The impossibility of a Su-25 fighter being able to "shoot" down an aircraft when in reality it is a ground attack aircraft. The rebels blocking access to the crash site.

There's credible evidence everywhere and all the Russians can do is accuse a SU-25 of shooting the plane down in broad daylight without realising the maximum altitude of the aircraft is 23000 feet, 10000 feet lower than MH 17 itself. When caught in this lie someone in the Kremlin itself edited the Wikipedia page (all edits leave an ip address) to claim the SU 25 was capable of 33000 feet.

The separatists shot the plane down thinking it was an Ukranian military plane, it is blindingly obvious.

 

[madmug]

Credible evidence lol. Phone intercepts; pictures of missile unit being transported through the area. The impossibility of a Su-25 fighter being able to "shoot" down an aircraft when in reality it us a ground attack aircraft. The rebels blocking access to the crash site.

There's credible evidence everywhere and Al the Russians can do is accuse a SU-25 of shooting the plane down in broad daylight without realising the maximum altitude of the aircraft is 23000 feet, 10000 feet lower than MH 17 itself. When caught in this lie someone in the Kremlin itself edited the Wikipedia page (all edits leave an ip addreess) to claim the SU 25 was capable of 33000 feet.

The separatists shot the plane down thinking it was an Ukranian military plane, it is blindingly obvious.

So we put sanctions on Russia

 

[Long Live HFC]

When caught in this lie someone in the Kremlin itself edited the Wikipedia page (all edits leave an ip addreess) to claim the SU 25 was capable of 33000 feet.

oh i hadn't heard this! that's gold!

The usual suspects would be declaring victory at this stage if the facts suited their preconceived notions or worldview biases! imagine if the CIA edited a wiki entry like this- there'd be pandomonium.

 

[Mofra]

Reasonably minded people would demand some credible evidence and an inquiry first before sanctioning anyone.

If that failed, he could just claim the separatists are harboring WMDs.
That tends to get the shock jocks and table thumpers on side at least.

 

[Zidane98]

oh i hadn't heard this! that's gold!

The usual suspects would be declaring victory at this stage if the facts suited their preconceived notions or worldview biases! imagine if the CIA edited a wiki entry like this- there'd be pandomonium.

There's no winners in this mate. The CIA has nothing to do with the whole episode so not sure why you bring them up. If Russia backs out of Eastern Ukraine then leaders of the nations that have imposed sanctions will also back off. Is it their business? Probably not but when a large number of people are needlessly killed of course they are going to take action.

 

[Smiling Buddha]

The CIA has nothing to do with the whole episode

Genuine lulz.

 

[awaremind]

Credible evidence lol. Phone intercepts; pictures of missile unit being transported through the area. The impossibility of a Su-25 fighter being able to "shoot" down an aircraft when in reality it is a ground attack aircraft. The rebels blocking access to the crash site.

There's credible evidence everywhere and all the Russians can do is accuse a SU-25 of shooting the plane down in broad daylight without realising the maximum altitude of the aircraft is 23000 feet, 10000 feet lower than MH 17 itself. When caught in this lie someone in the Kremlin itself edited the Wikipedia page (all edits leave an ip address) to claim the SU 25 was capable of 33000 feet.

The separatists shot the plane down thinking it was an Ukranian military plane, it is blindingly obvious.

Lol you'd think they know the capabilities of their own planes- and this isn't the core of thier argument anyway. Your evidence stated is still very weak, you'd not think any of that would be enough to satisfy an impartial jury. like I said if it was the rebels you'd think they have stronger evidence and Kiev wouldn't bother releasing clearly fake evidence.

 

[Zidane98]

Google "russian edit su-25 wiki entry" to see how amateur their efforts were. Fake evidence? You mean RT claiming the phone intercepts posted on YouTube were uploaded before the crash? Pity the Russians didn't realise that all you tube uploads subtract one day from the date of upload. Try it yourself. Only state sponsored Russian media and conspiracy theory nut job websites are claiming the evidence against the separatist is "fake". If you think that the leaders of nations like Australia & Holland would launch severe sanctions on the basis of "fake" evidence you are seriously deluded.

 

[Long Live HFC]

The CIA has nothing to do with the whole episode so not sure why you bring them up.

because according to some on this forum, the CIA control the universe, but their cognitive biases prevent them from seeing the proven actions by whichever side they take in a conflict (and they always choose a "side").