Review Autopsy vs Essendon

[the conch]

My questions don't go towards Morris and Roughead, but more to why time and time again there was a gaping hole 35 metres out directly in front of goal for him to lead into. There was no-one chipping in and cutting off the lead. Carlisle must have been having a good old laugh to himself

Bring back Cross

 

[the conch]

And most of them were wasted. He didn't play his role effectively and when he had the ball he would find a way to make the play more difficult than it needed to be. Possessions are a poor indicator of how somebody played - especially for a key defender.

Look I'm not an Austin basher and am more than happy to have him on the list next year as insurance - but he is an insurance policy, not a starting 21 key defender in a team that wants to rise up the ladder. Talia and Roberts may make mistakes but at least we would be getting experience into them and helping them improve in the long run. Aussie is not getting much better.

If he were a solid, dependable type that offered a consistent role I would have no objections - but he doesn't. If he is to stay in the team it is by filling space, defending his man, not making a bunch of errors of skill and judgement both offensively and defensively, and granting the side a consistent structural pillar to build around. He is not doing any of these things, and I can no longer justify him getting games ahead of these young boys.

What do you reckon about Young. I thought he was a good prospect and hard at it

 

[the conch]

Get Lake back.

This is a JOKE (I didn't really think this needed spelling out).

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

What do you reckon about Young. I thought he was a good prospect and hard at it

He's just not strong enough one on one to hold down a key post and not quick enough or good enough at ground level to play on any of the smaller guys. He flourished as the loose man back as he reads the ball well in the air and provides some nice rebound, but the coaching staff have shifted to more of a one-on-one philosophy as the confidence in our lineup grows. I'm not sure I see a role for him.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

Very well put, was a great game by both sides, Dogs are on the rise..

Some of your kids are gonna be top class, Bonts, Mcrae, Libba(already there) Nrovat hunter all look very exciting..

Lots of level headed discussion in here, good to see..However I found the remark about Essendon supporters not being welcome in the bulldogs social club a little disturbing..Our game is built on being able to be with other supporters have a bit of banter and go home like civil human beings who went to watch a game...People need to lighten up if they think the social club or any areas are for one team only...no room for that mentality...

I agree, we don't want our great game turning out like soccer.

 

[BEaston]

Does Koby's consistent disregard for the right option and terrible awareness/vision fall in line with the "team rules"?

I'm guessing not because he's not playing 2's.

 

[dish licker]

When the younger kids push past the older guys on merit and take their rightful spot in the team we are gonna be AWESOME, credit to Bmac for turning us around in such a short time. Best group of kids ever to have been assembled at our beloved club at one time, EVER.

 

[TedDougChris]

However I found the remark about Essendon supporters not being welcome in the bulldogs social club a little disturbing..Our game is built on being able to be with other supporters have a bit of banter and go home like civil human beings who went to watch a game...People need to lighten up if they think the social club or any areas are for one team only...no room for that mentality...

To be fair, the original description was of 'gloating Essendon supporters'. Not having been there, I cannot comment whether this is accurate, but I wouldn't have thought a Bulldogs post-match function was the place to be rubbing it in peoples faces, being a dick and acting like a tosser as a supporter of an opposition club.

Yes, you can be happy your team won, but still be slightly dignified about it....

Now, as I said, I wasn't there, but I can understand this attitude. I get very grumpy when we lose and the last thing I want to see at a Bulldogs post match function is an opposition supporter taking the piss and rubbing it in. Happy to discuss the game with someone and all that, but not have to put up with gloating pricks...

 

[yebiga]

When the younger kids push past the older guys on merit and take their rightful spot in the team we are gonna be AWESOME, credit to Bmac for turning us around in such a short time. Best group of kids ever to have been assembled at our beloved club at one time, EVER.

Not quite - the talent pool in the mid-late 70s was superior but more focused on the turps.

Dempsey, templeton, Quinlan , round, huppatz, bisset, featherby, wheeler, Jennings, welsh, sandilands, Dunstan, Hawkins....

 

[dish licker]

Not quite - the talent pool in the mid-late 70s was superior but more focused on the turps.

Dempsey, templeton, Quinlan , round, huppatz, bisset, featherby, wheeler, Jennings, welsh, sandilands, Dunstan, Hawkins....

Very nice, but no flag not even a grand final, this present group still a work in progress, can only say on the recruiting so far they will make the right trades and draft picks.

 

[Prince Imperial]

When the younger kids push past the older guys on merit and take their rightful spot in the team we are gonna be AWESOME, credit to Bmac for turning us around in such a short time. Best group of kids ever to have been assembled at our beloved club at one time, EVER.

I've been attending matches regularly since 1980 and it's certainly the best group of first to fourth year players we've had in that time.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Griffen didn't have a brilliant game (by his standards) up until the last quarter until the young players faded. He had 11 last quarter touches, assisted that goal to Bonti that nobody else could have, and did the team thing by drawing two defenders and handing it off to Koby who then fumbled.
A captains last quarter by any measure that's been overshadowed.
And he still ended up with the second most touches on the ground after Macrae, not getting enough credit I reckon.

 

[Zgope1]

god it's good watching back that stringer bag. It shows all his tricks.

Left foot snap, right foot snap, goal from 50, double baulk long shot and an ability to get on the end of play. all of da tricks

 

[Heppellicious]

I am not trolling, I actually think the Dogs have some of the most promising youth in the compeition, Macrae, Bontempelli and Libba in particular all have star quality.

Although, I still cannot understand the aggressive purusit of Crameri. Don't get me wrong he would still be very hadny at Essendon but just dont see him as the type the Dogs needed. As it turns out we snared young Zach Merrett with the pick acquired and I am confident we will end up in front. Crameri will probabaly end up with 30+ goals this season but he will never be the main man.

Considering the mess Carlisle made of Roughead (your most promising Key Position player) and Morris (former All Australian) surely you needed to channel all your energies into genuine key position prospects. A key forward and a key back must be the priority and if you can snare them this team will play finals very soon.

But instead you are paying the best part $500k for each of the next 4 years to medium forward who will very rarely be the main man.

Thoughts?

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

I am not trolling, I actually think the Dogs have some of the most promising youth in the compeition, Macrae, Bontempelli and Libba in particular all have star quality.

Although, I still cannot understand the aggressive purusit of Crameri. Don't get me wrong he would still be very hadny at Essendon but just dont see him as the type the Dogs needed. As it turns out we snared young Zach Merrett with the pick acquired and I am confident we will end up in front. Crameri will probabaly end up with 30+ goals this season but he will never be the main man.

Considering the mess Carlisle made of Roughead (your most promising Key Position player) and Morris (former All Australian) surely you needed to channel all your energies into genuine key position prospects. A key forward and a key back must be the priority and if you can snare them this team will play finals very soon.

But instead you are paying the best part $500k for each of the next 4 years to medium forward who will very rarely be the main man.

Thoughts?

Crameri wasn't recruited to be the main man, the fact he's an almost-tall-but-not-quite forward that accepted a nice deal to go to the Bulldogs, the club that apparently is the only one in the AFL that doesn't have a single KPF, has given more than a few people the wrong impression, particularly those that lost him.

It's not a matter of being 'in front' or not, we acquired a player we thought could be a part of our future (not 'the future', as it were), and as it turns out, you used the pick we gave you on Merrett, who looks terrific but likely isn't the player we'd have selected.

 

[Dav1d]

I am not trolling, I actually think the Dogs have some of the most promising youth in the compeition, Macrae, Bontempelli and Libba in particular all have star quality.

Although, I still cannot understand the aggressive purusit of Crameri. Don't get me wrong he would still be very hadny at Essendon but just dont see him as the type the Dogs needed. As it turns out we snared young Zach Merrett with the pick acquired and I am confident we will end up in front. Crameri will probabaly end up with 30+ goals this season but he will never be the main man.

Considering the mess Carlisle made of Roughead (your most promising Key Position player) and Morris (former All Australian) surely you needed to channel all your energies into genuine key position prospects. A key forward and a key back must be the priority and if you can snare them this team will play finals very soon.

But instead you are paying the best part $500k for each of the next 4 years to medium forward who will very rarely be the main man.

Thoughts?

my thoughts are Roughead isn't 100% fit at all and shouldn't be playing
hasn't been right all year after the Richmond game imo, there is a difference between been brave and been silly

can't explain the form of Morris though

 

[1961grandfinal]

Crameri has been very good for us; obviously he is part of a mutual admiration society with the coach but he is clearly our leading goal kicker and as the midfield learns to put the ball into space rather than kicking it on his head, he may do even better. Only been in the system for 4 years and played around 75 games so we should get another 5 years out of him, if that is so then definitely worth it. 40 goals a year with potential to kick more, had to be pried out of a club which rarely trades makes him worth 450k a year.

 

[Heppellicious]

Crameri wasn't recruited to be the main man, the fact he's an almost-tall-but-not-quite forward that accepted a nice deal to go to the Bulldogs, the club that apparently is the only one in the AFL that doesn't have a single KPF, has given more than a few people the wrong impression, particularly those that lost him.

It's not a matter of being 'in front' or not, we acquired a player we thought could be a part of our future (not 'the future', as it were), and as it turns out, you used the pick we gave you on Merrett, who looks terrific but likely isn't the player we'd have selected.

Fair enough - thanks for the response.

 

[dogwatch]

Fair enough - thanks for the response.

Hey Hep, you're not related to fronkalicious are you?

 

[the dog's kennel]

I still cannot understand the aggressive purusit of Crameri. Don't get me wrong he would still be very hadny at Essendon but just dont see him as the type the Dogs needed. As it turns out we snared young Zach Merrett with the pick acquired and I am confident we will end up in front. Crameri will probabaly end up with 30+ goals this season but he will never be the main man.

Considering the mess Carlisle made of Roughead (your most promising Key Position player) and Morris (former All Australian) surely you needed to channel all your energies into genuine key position prospects. A key forward and a key back must be the priority and if you can snare them this team will play finals very soon.

But instead you are paying the best part $500k for each of the next 4 years to medium forward who will very rarely be the main man.

Thoughts?

I think that we already have two KPDs developing in the VFL who are every bit as good as anyone we would have recruited in the late 20s last year. Which doesn't mean we can't go for more. But we have holes throughout our list. We still need pace in the middle, we still need clean skills off HBF. We most desperately need a Number 1 KPF. And as of last year we potentially needed an entire forward line. Jones' future is still uncertain and Stringer is supposed to be a midfielder.

So with our pick in the late 20s we needed to make a decision about which hole we would be most likely to fill. The chances of filling the urgent Number 1 KPF hole with a pick in the late 20s in last year's draft was exceedingly unlikely. So I can understand why the club went for the sure-fire capacity of Crameri to fill one of the vacant slots in our future forward line.

He is clearly not a Number 1 forward. Not even a Number 2 forward. But as a Number 3 forward I think he'd be excellent. Let's hope in 2 years that is exactly what he is.

Honestly, I probably wouldn't have made the trade myself. I think a pick in the late 20s is too valuable, and I think we'll only get a good year or two out of Crameri when challenging. But the money is immaterial - we'd be struggling to reach 95% of our salary cap even with most of our stars front-loaded. So I don't think it's a terrible decision by the club.

P.S. If I was a Bombers supporter I would be furious about Crameri leaving. While I think he was a reasonable acquisition for us, I can think of few teams he would be more valuable for in 2015 then Essendon. Imagine adding him to Carlisle and Daniher. That would be huge. He'd be a cr@pload better than Chappy in 2015, that's for sure. I doubt that Merrett is going to add as much to your premiership window (which is basically from now onwards for the next few years) as Crameri would have.

That's not me being a prick about it - I just honestly believe that you guys got shafted a bit by him leaving, and I'm glad you at least got a decent player out of it.

 

[cammo78]

People overlook a key reason we recruited Crameri, and that was to try and fill the gaping hole that exists in our list from an age profile/games played perspective.

We have nothing between ~21/22 and 27/28.

Crameri fits this bracket, and has also played between 50/100 games.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

People overlook a key reason we recruited Crameri, and that was to try and fill the gaping hole that exists in our list from an age profile/games played perspective.

We have nothing between ~21/22 and 27/28.

Crameri fits this bracket, and has also played between 50/100 games.

To back this up, I posted this back in may:

Interpret this data as you like:

Players with 70-160 Games Experience (inclusive) (Peak of a player), Aged 24-27 11 months, Total of these two, and total players with both of these:
*inputted manually, may be mistakes
TL;DR at bottom
Adelaide: 9, 17, 26, 7
Brisbane: 11, 9, 20, 5
Carlton: 10, 18, 28, 8
Collingwood: 10, 15, 25, 8
Essendon: 12, 14, 26, 8
Fremantle: 14, 11, 25, 6
Geelong: 6, 6, 12, 3
Gold Coast: 5, 7, 12, 2 (have 15 between 40 and 70 games)
GWS: 6, 6, 12, 4
Hawthorn: 8, 13, 21, 6
Melbourne: 12, 15, 27, 5
North: 14, 13, 27, 7
Port: 12, 12, 24, 7
Richmond: 17, 14, 31, 11
St. Kilda: 6, 11, 17, 5
Sydney: 11, 13, 24, 7
West Coast: 20, 16, 36, 14
Western Bulldogs: 3 (least, half of next most), 9, 12 (equal least), 3

Averages (excluding Bulldogs): 10.76, 12.35, 23.11, 6.65
Averages (excluding Bulldogs, GWS, Gold Coast) 11. 46, 13.33, 24.79, 7.13

And remember, these are the league averages. The teams in finals positions would obviously be higher than the average which further indicates the disparity.
TL;DR

Amount of Bulldogs players between 70 and 160 games vs Average of everybody else is 3 vs 10.76 (359% increase). 3 vs 11.46 (383% increase) without GWS and Gold Coast

Amount of Bulldogs players aged between 24 and 27 vs League Average is 9 vs 12.35 (137% increase). 9 vs 13.33 (148% increase) without GWS and Gold Coast

These two added together is 12 vs 23.11 (193%) , and 12 vs 24.79 (207%)

Players that meet both criteria are 3 vs 6.65 (222%), and 3 vs 7.13 (238 percent)

And remember, these are the league averages. The teams in finals positions would obviously be higher than the averages which further indicates the disparity.

 

[stefoid]

I am not trolling, I actually think the Dogs have some of the most promising youth in the compeition, Macrae, Bontempelli and Libba in particular all have star quality.

Although, I still cannot understand the aggressive purusit of Crameri. Don't get me wrong he would still be very hadny at Essendon but just dont see him as the type the Dogs needed. As it turns out we snared young Zach Merrett with the pick acquired and I am confident we will end up in front. Crameri will probabaly end up with 30+ goals this season but he will never be the main man.

Considering the mess Carlisle made of Roughead (your most promising Key Position player) and Morris (former All Australian) surely you needed to channel all your energies into genuine key position prospects. A key forward and a key back must be the priority and if you can snare them this team will play finals very soon.

But instead you are paying the best part $500k for each of the next 4 years to medium forward who will very rarely be the main man.

Thoughts?

Roughie has been playing with a bung shoulder for a while - quite frankly if someone is going to kick 8 on us, it might as well be on Talia or Fletch and let Roughead have his Op and get cherry ripe for next season. Obviously the coach is keeping Talia or Fletch out for a reason that the fans dont know, but whatever their flaws are, its apporaching the nose to spite the face stage, IMO.

Crameri is easy - we need a better forward line. Crameri was gettable and makes our forward line better, so job done, end of story.

 

[True Dog]

I've been attending matches regularly since 1980 and it's certainly the best group of first to fourth year players we've had in that time.

I go back a few years earlier and I agree 100%.....

 

[dogsfan]

I go back a few years earlier and I agree 100%.....

Same here and it's exciting