Recommitted Ben King [contracted and staying at Gold Coast]

[Minga]

So if you have Ben King, Max King and Sharman as the 3 tall forwards then A) where does Membrey go and more importantly B) which King do you utilize in the 2nd ruck role?

Seems like a waste of assets when another gun mid is required and maybe a KPD.

I assume Marshall is the main ruck but he also is a pretty good forward/ruck.

Also despite differences in playing style it seems to me that both are more suited to playing deeper. I don't see the worth in comparison to other options.

The Saints board has been discussing this on and off for a while now simply because it piques our curiosity. Anyhow I would say that the general consensus is both Kings forward, with one of them taking ruck duties when necessary, whichever is better at it not sure it matters if this came to fruition.

Sharman is a new piece to the puzzle let’s see how he develops next year, but he’ll be a handy foil to one or both Kings. As for Membrey, he could move into defence or higher up the field. He’s shown that he’s very versatile. Say that Sharman doesn’t come on then Membrey stays in his current role. The age difference between Sharman and Membrey would be a factor considering our future.

As for our mids, pick up a first rounder this year, some NGA’s and get development from within (Clark, Gresh, Bytel, Byrnes, Connolly, Coffield etc). Higgins/Butler/forward mid to crumb/apply pressure.

It’s all a bit of fun, and there are plenty of ways I think it could be structured. It would definitely be a luxury and an edge. Alternatively, we don’t get Bing and then reallocate those resources to other areas of the ground. I’m confident the club will be all over this, no doubt Bing is on their radar. Either way, from my perspective, I’m not worried if we get him or not.

Would make more sense to get him end of 2022 from a Saints POV, but if I was the club I would get the deal done whenever IF possible. Obviously it would be a big big deal for us Sainters.

I’ll be impressed if GC keep him, and good on them for doing so if that’s the case, Bing will be / is very handy for any team he plays for. Could take the Suns to finals and beyond.

 

[joydivision22]

So if you have Ben King

34

Ben King

Age

23

Ht

202cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

2.2

2star

M

3.5

4star

T

0.5

3star

G

1.3

5star

D

7.5

2star

K

5.6

2star

HB

1.9

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.5

5star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

2.4

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

0.2

3star

G

1.0

4star

, Max King

12

Max King

Age

23

Ht

202cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.3

2star

K

4.7

2star

HB

2.6

2star

M

2.7

3star

T

0.7

3star

G

1.4

5star

D

7.3

2star

K

4.7

2star

HB

2.6

2star

M

2.7

3star

T

0.7

1star

G

1.4

5star

D

8.0

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

2.8

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

0.6

3star

G

1.4

5star

and Sharman as the 3 tall forwards then A) where does Membrey go and more importantly B) which King do you utilize in the 2nd ruck role?

Seems like a waste of assets when another gun mid is required and maybe a KPD.

I assume Marshall is the main ruck but he also is a pretty good forward/ruck.

Also despite differences in playing style it seems to me that both are more suited to playing deeper. I don't see the worth in comparison to other options.

I may be sharmans biggest fan.. but I think Bing probably would be selected ahead of him. I would be okay with this..

As our wonderful and glorious leader once (leathers) once said, “we’ll look to bring in the best available and if they happen to be better than what we’ve got then so be it”. (Appropriately in reference to drafting King over smith or rozee)

Anyway.. to answer your questions..

Membrey can and will play anywhere on the field that is most beneficial to the team. Brilliant leader. That spot is probably starting forward and hitting wings being a shallow marking option up the ground and sitting in defense late. He could also conceivably trim down and play on the wing as he runs more kms than our and would be a seriously good defensive winger dropping in the hole.

If Membrey played on the wing, it would allow Ben, Max, Sharman to be the 2 keys and 3rd tall with 3 smalls at their feet. This is same structure we have now when Marshall/Ryder both play. I would imagine the kings would share some ruck duties in the forward line stoppages.

Membrey plays forward though I think and I actually think since king king Sharman and membrey are all so fast and agile and with Higgins Butler and Gresham are in the top few pressure forwards we can take all 4 in to the game.

Great ‘problem’ to have anyway. The romance of the reunion would also hasten our debt recovery plan by 5-10 years.

 

[Daniltchenko You Beauty]

I get the reuniting the Kings is a wonderful dream, but it just makes zero sense from a list management perspective. In an era where key forwards have never been less important, the Saints would wind up paying two of them 1.6-2m a year. Plus give up 2+ first rounders for Ben. They might be unstoppable when the footy gets down there but the Saints would have to sacrifice massively in other areas of the field.

 

[The Kings Ransom]

I'd give them Shiel pay like 30% of his wage, two first rounders in a heartbeat but even does Shiel even want to go gold coast, are our picks gonna be enticing enough to the suns if we're to play finals again next yr. What do you think is a fair trade for him, because i feel he has more output in him than what he got in return this year in terms of goals, i think he gets a comfy 60 goals in a better side but you can't really speculate in a trade scenario, in regards to what he might or might not produce.

Most obvious statement ever.
Playing in a better team gets your more opportunity at goals.

In just his 4th year, I’d expect him to continue to improve his tally further next year at the suns aswell.

 

[The Kings Ransom]

If the suns are going nowhere next year in Dew’s 5th year all supporters expect to lose a few young guys.

if I was a young player I would be waiting to see how the team was performing before re signing.

In saying that, I would like to think that Ben has made bonds that would keep him on the coast. Don’t think it’s giving him much credit as an individual to suggest it’s fait accompli he ends up at st kilda.

 

[AFLOnline]

Cant be that bizarre if several agree with me including your own supporters. Agree to disagree

Nah it’s bizarre dude, you and them guys are way overthinking it. They are insanely talented and versatile young key forwards with 10+ years of elite football ahead of them. You’re either crazy or naive to think there would be a single team in the league that wouldn’t want them both in their forward line given the opportunity.

Max and Ben play very similar styles to Hawkins and Cameron respectively, and there’s no way they couldn’t/wouldn’t gel just as well as them 2 do. If they weren’t related we wouldn’t even be having this conversation regarding comparisons and them not being able to fit in the same team.

There’s perhaps an argument that it’s more beneficial not to have them in the same side, due to the insane amount of currency they would cost (both trade compensation and salary wise) and it would be more worthwhile to spend them costs in other areas of the ground…. But to suggest they couldn’t co-exist in the same forward line is just pure negative contrarian speculation with zero basis or reasoning.

 

[Lore]

In an era where key forwards have never been less important, the Saints would wind up paying two of them 1.6-2m a year

Yikes that’s a lotta money. Are you sure? Would be like 40% of the cap at 2m each

 

[AFDogs]

0% chance he stays on the Gold Coast for the rest of his career. It just won't happen.

 

[Prochard123]

0% chance he stays on the Gold Coast for the rest of his career. It just won't happen.

Agree. Both him and max will play as KPF as well.

I actually think the King brothers can work together similar to Hawkins + Cameron, with Ben deep forward and Max higher up the ground. They better develop a game plan that focuses on their KPF deph tho (e.g. plenty of supporting small pressure forwards).

 

[King_Steele]

Only a matter of time..

Hallelujah!!

 

[bird_man]

I get the reuniting the Kings is a wonderful dream, but it just makes zero sense from a list management perspective. In an era where key forwards have never been less important, the Saints would wind up paying two of them 1.6-2m a year. Plus give up 2+ first rounders for Ben. They might be unstoppable when the footy gets down there but the Saints would have to sacrifice massively in other areas of the field.

I'd expect us to use our first round selection this year on a midfielder as well as having a couple of NGA mid-wing types before going after Ben next year.

Having two gun key forwards both who can pinch hit in the ruck when needed seems to make a lot of sense to me if we can make it happen.

These guys aren't just big slow forwards they are both extremely mobile and fast for their size.

 

[bird_man]

Especially two million dollar forwards who play the exact same position and way. The idea of two 2m tall contested marking beasts is actually a lot better than it is in reality where you need balance in a forwardline

Not sure how could argue they both play the exact same way.

Ben managed to kick 48 goals whilst only finishing 49th in the comp for contested marks.

Max was in the top 5 contested marks in the comp.

Ben likes to work his opponent and find space which is very different to how Max has always played.

I can't see how it would be any different to any side that has had two quality key forwards.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Not sure how could argue they both play the exact same way.

Ben managed to kick 48 goals whilst only finishing 49th in the comp for contested marks.

Max was in the top 5 contested marks in the comp.

Ben likes to work his opponent and find space which is very different to how Max has always played.

Yes, as many St Kilda fans have now made a point of bringing up (no idea why...), it was probably hyperbole to say they play the exact same way. In a football team, I'd argue they play the same role though, even if they do it differently. I maintain you will get diminishing returns having both in the team and its not worth the capital in picks and cap required to bring Ben in.

 

[Elmer_Judd]

0% chance he stays on the Gold Coast for the rest of his career. It just won't happen.

I would be glad to take that bet.

I am fairly sure he will put pen to paper over summer, The AFL will do whatever they can to keep King up there, even if it means paying him an extra one million dollars P/A outside the cap under a special Ambassador role.

And assuming he does go back to Victoria, I can pretty much guarantee you it won't be to St Kilda, it will be to a powerhouse club like Essendon or Collingwood

The Pies are probably best placed from next season onwards to snare Ben if he goes, they gave the prestige, marketing and likely trade assets/picks to get a deal done.

This whole wants to play with his twin is a crock of shit, same with the McKay twins its never going to happen.

I think he stays a Sun, but if he goes home, it will be to a marquee/big club.

Collingwood I think will be in a position to make a massive play for him next year, which makes rumous of them possibly trading Maynard all the more feasible

 

[bird_man]

Yes, as many St Kilda fans have now made a point of bringing up (no idea why...), it was probably hyperbole to say they play the exact same way. In a football team, I'd argue they play the same role though, even if they do it differently. I maintain you will get diminishing returns having both in the team and its not worth the capital in picks and cap required to bring Ben in.

I'd say the reason why is it has been brought up so often is obvious then.

I just can't see how it would be any different to any other club that has had two quality key forwards in their side, other then the fact they are taller than most and are also twin brothers.

It would be similar to having Riewoldt and Lynch, Hawkins and Cameron, Franklin and Roughead etc.

It's not like the days where you have a stay at home FF and you'd have to choose between Lockett or Dunstall leading out from the square.

 

[Crow till I die]

Yes, as many St Kilda fans have now made a point of bringing up (no idea why...), it was probably hyperbole to say they play the exact same way. In a football team, I'd argue they play the same role though, even if they do it differently. I maintain you will get diminishing returns having both in the team and its not worth the capital in picks and cap required to bring Ben in.

How about if they used Ben in his original junior role as a key defender - have a king at both ends of the ground - quite handy to also have the flexibility to swing Ben forward if needed. Both guys would be like high quality towers at either end for the Saints for the next decade if they could get him back.

Remember they picked up B Crouch last year and he had a very good year for them in the middle

 

[bird_man]

I would be glad to take that bet.

I am fairly sure he will put pen to paper over summer, The AFL will do whatever they can to keep King up there, even if it means paying him an extra one million dollars P/A outside the cap under a special Ambassador role.

And assuming he does go back to Victoria, I can pretty much guarantee you it won't be to St Kilda, it will be to a powerhouse club like Essendon or Collingwood

The Pies are probably best placed from next season onwards to snare Ben if he goes, they gave the prestige, marketing and likely trade assets/picks to get a deal done.

This whole wants to play with his twin is a crock of sh*t, same with the McKay twins its never going to happen.

I think he stays a Sun, but if he goes home, it will be to a marquee/big club.

Collingwood I think will be in a position to make a massive play for him next year, which makes rumous of them possibly trading Maynard all the more feasible

Thats a very different take to Matthew Lloyd who coached the pair and know his family well.

Is this information you claim to have or a hunch?

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

How about if they used Ben in his original junior role as a key defender - have a king at both ends of the ground - quite handy to also have the flexibility to swing Ben forward if needed. Both guys would be like high quality towers at either end for the Saints for the next decade if they could get him back.

Remember they picked up B Crouch last year and he had a very good year for them in the middle

Again, wasted capital, you'd be paying for Ben King the forward which is always going to be more valuable then Ben King the back. Not sure how Brouch is in any way relevant to this conversation

 

[schmuttt]

Probably a bit too much salary cap to be putting into your key forwards but then again maybe the game changes and they're more important again?

 

[bird_man]

How about if they used Ben in his original junior role as a key defender - have a king at both ends of the ground - quite handy to also have the flexibility to swing Ben forward if needed. Both guys would be like high quality towers at either end for the Saints for the next decade if they could get him back.

Remember they picked up B Crouch last year and he had a very good year for them in the middle

Can't see that happening. He hasn't played defence since he was 16 years old.

He's the first 200cm key forward to kick nearly 50 goals in his 3rd year for a long time. I doubt any club would pay top dollar to try and turn him back into a defender when you got a known quality key forward there ready to go.

I also don't think he'd be keen to go to a clu with that as a plan.

 

[bird_man]

Probably a bit too much salary cap to be putting into your key forwards but then again maybe the game changes and they're more important again?

Max's contract us far from extravagant. I think it's near 750k but that doesn't start until 2023.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I'd say the reason why is it has been brought up so often is obvious then.

I just can't see how it would be any different to any other club that has had two quality key forwards in their side, other then the fact they are taller than most and are also twin brothers.

It would be similar to having Riewoldt and Lynch, Hawkins and Cameron, Franklin and Roughead etc.

It's not like the days where you have a stay at home FF and you'd have to choose between Lockett or Dunstall leading out from the square.

The Kings are mobile for their size, they arent Cameron, Franklin or Riewoldt mobile though. Tis your club though, not mine. Happy for you to try to make it work

 

[Crow till I die]

Again, wasted capital, you'd be paying for Ben King the forward which is always going to be more valuable then Ben King the back. Not sure how Brouch is in any way relevant to this conversation

Sorry - should have followed on by saying they have set their midfield up well with Steel, B Crouch, Bytel and Jones so could look to use draft capital on a key post rather than an extra high end mid. There are always free agents to be had like M Crouch to further supplement their midfield at no draft capital cost assuming clubs don't match bids etc. I just think they could go hard for King if they are happy to have big investment at both ends of the ground

 

[Elmer_Judd]

Thats a very different take to Matthew Lloyd who coached the pair and know his family well.

Is this information you claim to have or a hunch?

That's the angle I would take if I was his manager.

Nothing against St Kilda, a club I have no ill feelings about, especially with Ratts coaching you, but he could stand to really set himself up for life if he joins Collingwood, esp from advertising sponsorships etc.

Still think he stays at Gold Coast, but if he goes he goes. I don't like the idea of The Suns just basically becoming a feeder club for the Eastern State clubs. I hope Ben shows some emotional maturity in what is likely to be a life-shaping decision either way.

 

[Jirik13]

Yes, as many St Kilda fans have now made a point of bringing up (no idea why...), it was probably hyperbole to say they play the exact same way. In a football team, I'd argue they play the same role though, even if they do it differently. I maintain you will get diminishing returns having both in the team and its not worth the capital in picks and cap required to bring Ben in.

St Kilda fans forget that Max and Ben operated in very different forward set ups. Ben was for the most of the season the sole key forward for Suns supported by Corbett 190, Jeffrey 192 in his first year or part time ruck Burgess 194. Ben would obviously benefit from Day next to him but Day played only 6 games, in 1 he got injured and 4 coming from meniscus underdone. FWIW, Ben and Max have similar traits, it just depends how the teams utilize them depending on team plan and forward set up.

As per media, Ben's management told clubs not to bother this off-season. So probably a little bit premature this thread but all power to St Kilda fans.